Archived messages from: gitter.im/red/help from year: 2022

gltewalt
23:03Why does take leave "" with this:
>> b: ["one" "two" "three"]
== ["one" "two" "three"]
>> foreach i b [if find i "two" [take/part i length? i]]
== none
>> b
== ["one" "" "three"]
23:06But:
>> b: ["one" "two" "three"]
== ["one" "two" "three"]
>> take b
== "one"
>> b
== ["two" "three"]
23:07Can we not take positionally, and leave no dangling ""?
23:16Well I know why, but I don;t know how to take positionally
greggirwin
23:17foreach's word doesn't let you access the series, use forall if you need that.
gltewalt
23:30That doesn't seem to do it either
23:31Need take/only to exist?
greggirwin
23:32If you want to remove based on an item's value, use remove-each. It's not about /only, but about accessing the series, and how tricky that can be when you start removing items as you traverse forward.
gltewalt
greggirwin
23:35
>> b: ["one" "two" "three"]
== ["one" "two" "three"]
>> forall b [if find b/1 "two" [remove b]]
== ["three"]
>> b
== ["one" "three"]
>> 
>> 
>> b: ["one" "two" "two" "three"]
== ["one" "two" "two" "three"]
>> forall b [if find b/1 "two" [remove b]]
== none
>> b
== ["one" "two" "three"]
gltewalt:matrix.org
23:52If only it removed for each match

gltewalt:matrix.org
03:53Print all but last of a string? Non destructive
greggirwin
04:19You're going to have to copy the string, as we don't (yet, maybe ever) have slices that define an end point before the tail of a series.
gltewalt
06:55Ok... Anyone have any idears on how to not have "" left in the blocks ? (See comment on gist)
https://gist.github.com/gltewalt/e68bfabacfe5747909976f0f989c1e3b
06:57Have to be able to take multiple matches - the forall example above doesn't work for this, and I don't see that remove-each is viable. It returns unset.
rebolek
06:59@gltewalt

> Why does take leave "" with this:

take will remove values from the series. If you remove all values from a series, you are left with an empty series.
gltewalt
06:59I have to take it by elements with take/part i length? i, which leaves me with "" left in the series
rebolek
07:00you are taking elements from "two", not from ["one" "two" "three"]
07:01Don't you want this instead?
>> b: ["one" "two" "three"]
== ["one" "two" "three"]
>> forall b [if find b/1 "two" [remove b]]
== ["three"]
>> b
== ["one" "three"]
07:01or use remove-each as suggested
gltewalt
07:01That won't work when you need to take more than one "two"
07:02I'd use remove-each but it doesn't return a block of values
rebolek
07:05you can remove/part b some-length
07:06but this take/part i length? i doesn't remove more than one "two" also, it removes i values where i is the length of the series, so in case of two it removes three chars.
07:20In other words, take/part i length? i doesn't remove i it removes **from** i
gltewalt
07:21But I need to be able to take duplicates, which it does. I know it's chomping down the elements of i
07:21
>> x: ["one" "two" "three" "two"]
== ["one" "two" "three" "two"]
>> foreach i x [if find i "two" [take/part i length? i]]
== "two"
>> x
== ["one" "" "three" ""]

rebolek
07:22
>> x: ["one" "two" "three" "two"]
== ["one" "two" "three" "two"]
>> remove-each i x [i = "two"]
>> x
== ["one" "three"]
gltewalt
07:24I would use that if it returned a block of values, but it dunna
rebolek
07:25Block of what values? Removed ones?
gltewalt
rebolek
07:25but the foreach loop doesn't return such block either
gltewalt
07:26
get-cards: func [from-hand to-hand kind][ 
    foreach i from-hand [
        if find i kind [
            append to-hand take/part i length? i
        ]
     ]
]

rebolek
07:26
>> collect [remove-each i x [all [i = "two" keep i]]]
== ["two" "two"]
gltewalt
07:34So like
>> x: ["one" "two" "three" "two"]
== ["one" "two" "three" "two"]
>> z: []
== []
>> foreach c collect [remove-each i x [all [i = "two" keep i]]][append z c]
== ["two" "two"]
>> z
== ["two" "two"]
rebolek
07:35You can also collect/into [code here] z
gltewalt
08:21Seems a lot nicer but it isn't transfering cards between from-hand, and to-hand.
Time to put it down and sleep for a bit.
08:22Thanks for the help
hiiamboris
11:01
>> parse x [collect any to keep "two"]
== ["two" "two"]
11:06
>> sift x [s .. s = "two"]
== ["two" "two"]
11:06remove-each should work too, it's just buggy
toomasv
11:29@gltewalt 
b: ["one" "two" "three" "two"]
collect [while [found: find b "two"] [keep take found]]
;== ["two" "two"]
b
;== ["one" "three"]

Or this?
b: ["hearts-one" "clubs-two" "hearts-three" "spades-two"]
collect [forall b [if find b/1 "two" [keep take b b: back b]]]
;== ["clubs-two" "spades-two"]
b
;== ["hearts-one" "hearts-three"]
greggirwin
19:57
remove-each-and-count: function [
	"Like remove-each, but returns both modified series and count of removed items." 
	'word [word! block!] "Word or block of words to set each time" 
	data [series!] "The series to traverse (modified)" 
	body [block!] "Block to evaluate (return TRUE to remove)"
][
	orig-ct: length? data
	remove-each :word data body
	reduce [data  orig-ct - length? data]
]
remove-each-and-count v [1 2 3 4 5] [odd? v]
remove-each-and-count v [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] [odd? v]
19:58If you have multiple, different criteria for removing, you can't reproduce what was removed with this.
20:02Another approach would be to partition. This is an old experimental version.
; Is . better than _ as a placeholder for the current value? It maps
; to the concept of %. as a current directory, but _ looks like an
; empty space where something goes.
filter: partition: function [
	"Returns two blocks: items that pass the test, and those that don't"
	series [series!]
	test [any-function! block!] "Test (predicate) to perform on each value; must take one arg if a function; block implied arg is named ."
	/only "Return a single block of values that pass the test"
][
	result: copy/deep [[][]]
	; Convert block test to anonymous func
	if block? :test [
		;probe test: func either arg [compose [(arg)]][[.]] test
		test: func [.] test
	]
	foreach value series [
		; `make logic!` is used, so zero test results become false.
		append/only pick result make logic! test :value :value
	]
	either only [result/1][result]
]
;red>> filter [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] :even?
;== [[2 4 6] [1 3 5 7]]
;red>> filter [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] :odd?
;== [[1 3 5 7] [2 4 6]
;red>> filter/only [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] :odd?
;== [1 3 5 7]
;red>> filter [/only /dup 3] :refinement?
;== [[/only /dup] [3]
;>> filter [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] [odd? _]
;== [[1 3 5 7] [2 4 6]]
;>> filter [[1 2] [3 4] [6 6]] [odd? ./1]
;== [[[1 2] [3 4]] [[6 6]]]
gltewalt
20:29Used second toomas example and variation.
It works for a demo, sans the very basic A.I. part

https://gist.github.com/gltewalt/e68bfabacfe5747909976f0f989c1e3b
20:31in other words, todo: A.I. and a non demo presentation, where you can't see computers cards, and the player enters a guess instead of having it random
20:33The no friction way in a perfect world would be take/only/with
hiiamboris
20:41cards are unique, so why not exclude?
greggirwin
20:43I think he wants to get them (the excluded bits) back as a result.
gltewalt:matrix.org
20:51Need a result to append to the other hand
hiiamboris
21:01difference?
gltewalt:matrix.org
21:01Cards aren't unique because you ignore the suit when asking for cards
hiiamboris
21:02too bad then
gltewalt:matrix.org
21:09I'll explore set operations later, maybe re work things. For now I'm irritated
ne1uno
21:11custom sort?
gltewalt
23:05last edit in red/sandbox

koba-yu
04:25Hi, Happy New Year and thank you Red team for new features and a blog post.
I have been away from coding and checking Red for a while, because of some illness of my family since last year but I want to keep in touch with Red.

I'm using the Red version below (might be the latest one I think),

> Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 31-Dec-2021/9:47:48+09:00 commit #972994d

and trying to the code below, in order to understand the debug function;

test: func [a b][
	c: a + b
	print c
]
debug [test 1 2]


I use :word and watch command but I get the "Unknown command!" response like belw, at any time so far.

debug> :a
Unknown command!
debug> watch :a
Unknown command!
debug> :word
Unknown command!


I have some misunderstandings to use the commands?
hiiamboris
10:19Hi long time no see @koba-yu :)
I'll let Nenad know. Can't get my head around debugger either :)
greggirwin
19:03Nice to see you again @koba-yu! Expect dbugger improvements before too long.

gltewalt
19:27If anybody has some spare time, and the inclination to give feedback on this, it would be appreciated and illuminating.
https://github.com/gltewalt/go-fish
greggirwin
20:15Will try to look later. The fish is cute. :^)
gltewalt:matrix.org
20:26Grabbed that from https://openmoji.org/
greggirwin
22:58First note: good func names, data names chand phand fhand thand etc. not as good. ;^)
23:010 <> length? deck = not empty? deck
23:03deck: random deck random works in place on series, just in case you need the original.
23:07clear-show wasn't clear to me on a first read.
23:09Otherwise, I think it reads nicely.
gltewalt
23:16it was originally show-and-clear. After I had a few multi word function names, I decided to have all parameters as one word, thus.... the chand, etc

koba-yu
04:43> Hi long time no see @koba-yu :)
> I'll let Nenad know. Can't get my head around debugger either :)

> Nice to see you again @koba-yu! Expect dbugger improvements before too long.

@hiiamboris @greggirwin Thank you!
07:18:point_up: [2022年1月4日 13:25](https://gitter.im/red/help?at=61d3cc466d9ba23328a40853)
Latest Red binary seems fixed the command to work, thank you Nenad!

bubnenkoff
10:39Hi! Is there any progress with http-branch? I would like to try migrate my app to new Red version and http with timeout support is what I need
greggirwin
17:27I/O is high on our list to merge, but there is at least one bug and design issue ahead of it in the queue.

chasecrum:matrix.org
15:55(you'll have to forgive me - I'm day2 new newbie to Red...) I'm looking for an example block of code for a GUI menuing system that executes linux commands by selection. I'd like to looks at it's structure and pull it apart (skript kiddie style, to use a 90's throw back..) to help me learn along the way. Would anyone have a link to something like that?
hiiamboris
16:00view/options [] [menu: ["commands" ["bash" [call "bash"] "nano" [call "nano"]]]]
chasecrum:matrix.org
16:06I'm almost certain there's more code to this, yes?
hiiamboris
16:22nope :)
16:24I haven't tested though, call is a little whimsical at times, might require some help
greggirwin
18:00> I'm almost certain there's more code to this, yes?

We get that a lot. ;^)
18:01Very nice example @hiiamboris.
chasecrum:matrix.org
18:03In 20 years of Linux, this is rapidly becoming my favorite language, and I didn't know it existed a few days ago
greggirwin
18:05Be aware, there *are* things you'll trip over as you learn, because Red is very different. It just pretends really well, to keep you comfortable.

Enjoy the ride!
fergus4
20:10to-string to-money 3456.00 gives me "$3'456.00". Any way to give US thousand seperator: "3,456.00" - COMMA
20:12I can just do a replace but was wondering if there was a built in method.
greggirwin
20:16format is coming soon, but a simple replace is your best option there for now.

greggirwin
00:12Is it just me, or are we completely lacking menu docs for VID/View?
gltewalt
01:25https://imgur.com/a/j60xeKt
01:25It mentions menu a few times in View docs, but at the bottom it shows that ^
01:32> I haven't tested though, call is a little whimsical at times, might require some help

Doesn't work on my Mint
01:32
(console-2021-12-31-2876:1940): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 18:30:38.759: gtk_menu_shell_insert: assertion 'GTK_IS_MENU_ITEM (child)' failed

Which may or may not impact it. There always seems to be Gtk barking
01:33Menu functions, but nothing is "called"
01:34On second glance, it has to be the culprit
greggirwin
04:32Well, someone noticed at some point. I'll add a ticket for it.
hiiamboris
11:13okay that example actually crashes it on ubuntu :)
11:14in fact, menu is more convoluted, unnecessarily so IMO:
view/options [] [menu: ["commands" ["bash" bash "nano" nano]] actors: object [on-menu: func [face event][call/show form event/picked]]]
11:15but though this works on W10, on ubuntu - nothing happens (call returns the pid, but nothing is shown)
11:16call/console works - bash is shown in the terminal, which blocks Red ofc
11:17idk, maybe call/show is not implemented in GTK? (it was a contribution work, not really polished)
olivier_lp_twitter
13:20Hi, is it normal that on the console the code loop 10 [i: copy [] loop 150 [append i to-char 15 + random 200] print i wait 1 ]has a different behaviour on R2 than on Red. on R2 each line is written then the wait is done, on Red, all the line are written by the end of 10sec
rebolek
13:23@olivier_lp_twitter yes, that’s normal. It’s a know limitation of the GUI console (that should be removed in near future). If you try it in a normal console, the behaviour would be the same as in Rebol.
hiiamboris
13:35actually it works in GUI console, at least on W10
13:35Qingtian sacrificed great deal of print speed to satisfy these complaints ;)
pekr
15:13Those complaints were probably rised by one long time complainer - me :-)
planetsizecpu
18:47Well @pekr some one has to take this responsibility 😀
gltewalt:matrix.org
19:17If I inadvertently fix the gtk menu "child" item, do I get $100?
greggirwin
19:25@gltewalt:matrix.org I'll at least buy you a coffee. ;^) Per Knuth, bugs are worth $2.56.
gltewalt:matrix.org
19:28🎉

chasecrum:matrix.org
18:12is there a Red language command that will execute a linux bash command? I'm finding hit and miss web help on call functions but none of them seem to work yet
18:23maybe do?
hiiamboris
18:23call
chasecrum:matrix.org
18:24is there a particular syntax for call that would execute a bash command?
hiiamboris
18:24
>> ? call
USAGE:
     CALL cmd

DESCRIPTION: 
     Executes a shell command to run another process. 
     CALL is a native! value.

ARGUMENTS:
     cmd          [string! file!] "A shell command or an executable file."

REFINEMENTS:
     /wait        => Runs command and waits for exit.
     /show        => Force the display of system's shell window (Windows only).
     /console     => Runs command with I/O redirected to console (CLI console only at present).
     /shell       => Forces command to be run from shell.  <-------
18:27https://www.red-by-example.org is a good site to know when looking for some Red command
chasecrum:matrix.org
18:27yeah I've been looking that over - it's possible I just don't understand what I'm seeing yet. I did download somebody's book/pdf with a lot of howto - but nothing on this yet
hiiamboris
18:32
>> call/shell/console "if echo 1; then echo 2; fi"
1
2
== 0
chasecrum:matrix.org
18:32is the >> intentional there?
hiiamboris
18:33I'm just copying and pasting stuff from red console
18:33it's the REPL prompt
18:34
>> system/console/prompt: "♥♥♥"
== "♥♥♥"
♥♥♥oops
*** Script Error: oops has no value
*** Where: catch
chasecrum:matrix.org
18:39I got it - totally works now - thanks for the tip!
hiiamboris
18:43:+1:
chasecrum:matrix.org
19:36alright - curveball bonus round:
19:37how can I get a button to execute more than one comand?
19:37I've tried multiple calls, but the syntax doesn't seem to work any way I imagine
19:38currently button "button label here" [call "/execute.some.thing.here"]
19:38but I have more than one something. is this possible?
19:39I think maybe I need to build a function for it - but I can't seem to get more than one call in a function either
hiiamboris
19:42what have you tried?
chasecrum:matrix.org
19:45function_name: func [call "dothething"] [call "dothing2"]

and

function_name: func {
[call "dothething"]
[call "do thing2"]
}
19:55All of this is to go into a button action. I just need more than one thing to happen, and I don't know if that should be a function (which I can't do yet) or some scripting somehow.... IDK... its the current learning curve mystery of the day for me.
hiiamboris
20:02well, in Red you don't need any delimiters between expressions
20:03at all
20:03http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore.html is a very recommended reading to get the basics
chasecrum:matrix.org
greggirwin
20:21Having some examples directly in the VID docs would be great.

@chasecrum:matrix.org does this help? view [button "print 2 things" [print 1 print 2]]
20:22Here you can see that the default actor (click for buttons) uses the block you give it. And that block can contain anything you want.
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:22I'm not sure. The two things I need to do are bash executions, which is where I would normally use call to execute. could you use call twice in that example?
hiiamboris
20:23why should call be any different?
greggirwin
20:23How is call different than print? They're just expressions.
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:24You're probably right, I am just trying to picture the format. [ call "dothingone" call "dothingtwo"] ???
greggirwin
20:24Play. Play. Play. The console is your friend. :^)
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:25yeah that's what I've been doing - I'll get this yet
greggirwin
20:25As long as you don't do something like rm -f, you're not going to hurt anything.
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:26Ha! well the good news is, I'm not likely to do much harm - I just have to learn something new
greggirwin
20:29People coming to Red from other langs often make things harder than they should be, simply from past experience. It's normal for it to take a while to let go and just *try* something how you'd *want* it to work. It doesn't always, but mistakes also lead to you learn more about how Red works, which is just as valuable.
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:29I already Love the simplicity of the language, so I'm not likely to give up.
20:32the weird thing is when I put both calls behind the button, the first call executes, but the second one does not. It feels like I'm missing something in between calls to show it's something additional, but back to the docs....
greggirwin
20:35Something like this?
>> view [button "print 2 things" [call/shell/console "echo 1" call/shell/console "echo 2"]]
1
2
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:37your syntax for button is different from the examples I've been using. my programs that work so far have/ button "button name" [call "something"] return
greggirwin
20:37Call *can* be a little tricky, because there are a number of options and OS behaviors based on whether you're in GUI or CLI consoles, or a compiled app. Lots of moving parts, should it wait for a result, etc., so start simple and post your examples when you get stuck.
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:38button "Install KVM and tools" [call "./kvm_inst.sh"] return <--- this line does work for me
greggirwin
20:38button "button name" [call "something"] return Seems the same. Return is a layout command, kind of like a CR for the GUI, but directionally aware (across vs below).
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:39but the challenge is, what if I wanted to do more than call just one command - then i wouldn't need the supprting scripts
gltewalt:matrix.org
20:40commands: does [
call "command1"
call "command2"
]
etc...
greggirwin
20:40Does the example I posted, like Boris', work, echoing 2 things?
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:41I'm testing now...
greggirwin
20:41Maybe formatting will make it clearer:
view [
	button "print 2 things" [
		call/shell/console "echo 1"	; command 1
		call/shell/console "echo 2"	; command 2
	]
]
chasecrum:matrix.org
20:48holy cow it works.
20:49mind you these are examples for testing purposes...
20:49button "TEST" [call/shell/console "/usr/bin/xterm -e zypper in htop" call/shell/console "/usr/bin/xterm -e zypper in ntop"] return
20:49that worked!
20:50which is perfect, because now that I can combine commands to a single button, I can eliminate the need for the external shell scripts
20:55thank you so much for your help
greggirwin
20:59:+1:

gltewalt
02:23
commands: [who ps df]

view [
    button "Run three commands" [
        foreach c commands [
            call/console form c
        ]
    ]
]
greggirwin
03:17Nice. That will give @chasecrum:matrix.org a couple new things to learn.
ldci
07:36When using call in compiled app, use call/wait for ensuring that all commands are correctly executed.
chasecrum:matrix.org
14:58@ldci: can you clarify that a bit for me?
15:01@gltewalt: can those commands be used with flags and switches? if so, how would the interpreter know where one command ended and the other began? for example, /usr/bin/xterm -e top - a command that says I want to open a new terminal and execute top in it (or whatever. With flags/switches after the command, how would I then start the other commands in your example?
hiiamboris
15:13commands: ["/usr/bin/xterm -e top -a" "another command" "etc"]
chasecrum:matrix.org
15:14oh gotcha, thanks!
15:15what is that called? it doesn't look like my function examples. A loop maybe? there's got to be a name for what that is
hiiamboris
15:15[]? a block
15:16rebol/core manual is waiting for you :)
chasecrum:matrix.org
15:16oh, no, I'm sorry - I got the block part - I mean the function/thing/whatsit above that it fits into
15:16(I'm currently reading the rebol manual from the link you guys gave me
hiiamboris
15:17oh commands:? a set-word
15:17
>> type? quote commands:
== set-word!
15:18it's almost equivalent to set 'commands ... when evaluated
chasecrum:matrix.org
15:19> 
> commands: [who ps df]
> 
> view [
>     button "Run three commands" [
>         foreach c commands [
>             call/console form c
>         ]
>     ]
> ]


15:20I mean that
15:20what is that THING called - it doesn't look like my function examples
15:20I thought maybe a loop or something
hiiamboris
15:20that what exactly? there's a lot going on there
chasecrum:matrix.org
15:21right. the whole of it. what is that bodyt of code that does a thing called? I don't think it's a function by name, at least not by my examples... I was thinking maybe a loop, but I'm not sure
15:21there's no declared function, but it looks similar to a function
hiiamboris
15:22you mean view? or button? or foreach?
chasecrum:matrix.org
15:22ALL of it together
15:23a function has several parts. that, has several parts. what's the sum of it all as an action called?
hiiamboris
15:23all of it is just data :)
15:23in Red everything is just data
15:24(until evaluated)
15:24in this case I'd call it a snippet of code, but implying that code is data
chasecrum:matrix.org
15:25I thought it might have a name. I can point to what a function is, because it has several identifyable parts. that has a few parts, that act together to do a thing, and I thought it might have it's own name, like a function does. I don't think it's a function, and it kind of resembles a loop in my Bash days, but I don't know what you would call this particular action block of code.
15:25it vaugely resembles a for loop
hiiamboris
15:25
>> ? view
USAGE:
     VIEW spec

DESCRIPTION: 
     Displays a window view from a layout block or from a window face. 
     VIEW is a function! value.
chasecrum:matrix.org
15:26IDK, it's not important I guess
hiiamboris
15:26view is a function of one argument
chasecrum:matrix.org
15:26yeah I know what view is/does - I meant all of the code in the snippet together
15:26Either way - not that important - just curious.
15:27thanks for all the help as usual
hiiamboris
15:27well that snippet is (if we skip command): 1 word (view) and 1 block
15:27sure :)
gltewalt:matrix.org
16:23foreach loops through the block [who ps df]
16:31It touches each item in your grocery bag. The c in the above example stands for the item that is being touched at the time.
hiiamboris
16:32funny @gltewalt:matrix.org your avatar takes 20-30 secs to load and as other avatars of matrix.org visitors, is *never* cached. I guess they love extra traffic and useless load on their servers.
gltewalt:matrix.org
16:33Body of all the code that does a thing is a program.
16:34matrix also has weird handling of code in `°°
16:36reading it back is incorrectly formatted
hiiamboris
16:38in what client? element crap?
gltewalt:matrix.org
16:39The app
hiiamboris
16:41hmm haven't noticed
chasecrum:matrix.org
16:41Is there a more preferred app than element?
16:42(it's seemed fairly decent to me so far...)
hiiamboris
16:43no, they're all one worse than the other
gltewalt:matrix.org
16:43It's fine for me, just has a few wrinkles still. On a PC I use the gitter web interface
chasecrum:matrix.org
16:46I have it loaded on my OpenSUSE machine and my Ubuntu machine (which I'm on at the moment) - and they both seem to be just fine. Haven't had a problem yet
16:47all of my primary machines are either OpenSUSE or SLES - so whatever I use has to work well on those and not just Ubuntu (that everything seems to work on...)
hiiamboris
16:48@gltewalt well, I count:
- constant struggles to authenticate different devices
- a message that on random just sticks to the bottom of the chat and you can't remove it until you log out
- removed functionality from the predecessor app
- it's inability to pre-load received messages until you open the chat where they appear (in this case you lose a lot of time until it loads them)
- inability to continue upload of image/video when it fails (go try that on Edge network)
chasecrum:matrix.org
16:49(mind you I don't use mobile apps for this, just my computers) - thankfully I haven't encountered any of those problems yet (knock on wood)
hiiamboris
16:52for the web version I can say
- when I scroll up it loads 1 message per 3-5 seconds, so reading the previous chat is not an option
- but I'm using an older one because latest versions simply do not work in my browser at all after they switched to polyfills
- discord-level CPU load, which makes it super laggy on battery mode
- in high contrast mode no icons are visible, I had to rewrite their style myself
- image upload randomly fails even more often than on mobile
- page itself takes like a minute to load
gltewalt:matrix.org
17:01The message sticking to the bottom I've encountered a lot
hiiamboris
17:01and know what? it's been so for years, no one cares
greggirwin
20:00@chasecrum:matrix.org chapters 3-5 should give you a good idea of the building blocks. A snippet, script, chunk of code, example, gist or other term can all refer to *some Red content*. @hiiamboris hinted at everything being data, so while we could say "Red code" and be fine, you'll also see stuff that is, indeed, just data. e.g. talking about data structures may look like code, but Red is a data format first and foremost, so we can run in circles arguing semantics. Just wait until you use the term *variable* and watch the fireworks. ;^)
chasecrum:matrix.org
23:34Ha! I'll keep that in mind :)

meijeru
16:25I am stuck with the following: the delete function only deletes a single file or an empty folder. How to delete a folder that is not empty?
hiiamboris
16:27delete every file first
16:30you can use [glob](https://gitlab.com/hiiamboris/red-mezz-warehouse/-/blob/master/glob.red), reverse the result and then delete every item using foreach
meijeru
17:06For a large multi-level tree structure of files, this becomes rather complicated. Ideally, one should have a refinement /deep on deleteinstead.
hiiamboris
17:11how complicated it is? foreach file reverse glob [delete file]
17:18Red makes coders lazy ☻
17:34it's going to fail on cyclic symlinks though, as there is no way to identify symlinks in pure Red
meijeru
18:38Luckily my target is a simple folder tree.
Oldes
18:47@meijeru this is ported delete-dir function from Rebol:
delete-dir: function [
    {Deletes a directory including all files and subdirectories.}
    path [file!]
][
    try [
        if all [
            dir? path     ;@@ does not actually checks, if it is a real dir
            exists? path
            block? files: read path
        ] [
            foreach file files [delete-dir path/:file]
        ]
        delete path
    ]
]

olivier_lp_twitter
13:03Hi, i'm testing et last build (red-23jan22-0ea764787.exe) to test async I/O and i've got an issue with open : Script Error: open does not allow file! for its port argument
hiiamboris
13:07async IO is in a separate branch
13:07https://github.com/red/red/tree/IO
olivier_lp_twitter
13:22the open functionn is in red-23jan22-0ea764787.exe build : ? open
USAGE: OPEN port DESCRIPTION: Opens a port; makes a new port from a specification if necessary. OPEN is an action! value. ARGUMENTS: port [port! file! url! block!]
but it doesn't work with a file argument
hiiamboris
13:24it's not implemented there
13:26on IO branch too AFAICT, only tcp, no file://
olivier_lp_twitter
13:35ok, to be waiting, because when i saw ARGUMENTS: port [port! file! url! block!]...

TUA20762891_twitter
01:55
>> 
>> write-clipboard ["one" "two" "three"]
== true
>> c: read-clipboard
== [%one %two %three]
>> type? c/1
== file!
>>
01:56why do strings end up as files here?
01:57and why does CTRL-V on WIN not paste the clipboard content?
greggirwin
04:14GU console is fine. Funny that I've always used alt+space->E->P for the CLI console. If we don't have a ticket for that, we can see what @qtxie thinks.
04:16Hmmm. If I use write-clipboard, pasting into the CLI console doesn't work at all. Definitely worth a ticket if we don't have one already.
04:23On formatting, we should definitely note how things work. Each OS has different support at this time. If you want to write a block of data as a string on Windows, you need to form it first. If it's a block, to try and be helpful, the platform code treats it as a block of files, for CF_HDROP/DROPFILES compatibility. We need to doc it beyond having this comment in the code.

> ;-- block of files in native format

Mac and Linux do not have this extended support, so it would be great to have people post results from those OSs, and put them in a wiki page.
TUA20762891_twitter
04:38thanks Gregg - much appreciated
qtxie
10:04> Hmmm. If I use write-clipboard, pasting into the CLI console doesn't work at all. Definitely worth a ticket if we don't have one already.

Yes. worth a ticket.
hiiamboris
10:07Works fine for me.
10:09If you write-clipboard files then CLI console doesn't paste anything though. But that's expected, because it's OS who does the paste, not the CLI console.
semarie
10:51clipboard might depends of the OS used : on Linux you only have 3 differents clipboard buffers you could use
hiiamboris
11:30on W10 full clipboard history of ~25 last items is accessible
greggirwin
20:19The issue with the CLI console not pasting is only going to happen on Windows, and only when write-clipboard is used with a block, which lines up with what @semarie says and what the code looks like. What happens is that the CF_HDROP format is probably not supported, i.e. converted to plain text, when the OS tries to paste into the CLI console.

@TUA20762891_twitter would you be willing to open the ticket for this, linking to this chat for reference?
hiiamboris
22:44what ticket? I don't see any Red faults here
22:44blame Microsoft, but I think it's by design
greggirwin
23:03OK, we can note this in the wiki then, since we probably can't work around it in the CLI. HoweverI just hit this crash: write-clipboard [a b c]? We have https://github.com/red/red/issues/4331 for that case already.
hiiamboris
23:07yes, the question is what should happen in this case?
23:08should it make another pass over the block and check the types then throw an error?
23:11I see I asked it in the ticket
greggirwin
23:15My first thought was to check the arg. If it's a single file or a block of files, use CF_HDROP format, otherwise just make it a string. But I almost immediately thought that CF_HDROP only has value in drag-drop ops, right? So what's the value in writing it programmatically. Well, that's what we'd need to do in drag-drop use cases. If it's anything but one or more file! values, it's just text or an image, and if we want to move data between Red apps, we just load it if it's text.
hiiamboris
23:21we either error out, or skip non-file values, or form them, or try some other processing
or we form everything but it's kinda weird
23:22I didn't implement any mechanism because I have no idea what is useful
23:23also IIRC proper errors didn't work back then, never blamed the write-clipboard itself, but this should be fixed by now
greggirwin
23:26If it's all files, CF_HDROP, image = image, otherwise text. Shell formats don't support images, but other apps should. Works here, which is really nice.
hiiamboris
23:28I don't get what you're proposing
greggirwin
23:29:point_up: https://gitter.im/red/help?at=61f0847bd41a5853f96b7451
hiiamboris
23:30[%a %b %c] gets pushed as file list but [%a %b c] as formed text?
23:31I think that's a bit treacherous. An error would be better IMO.
greggirwin
23:34How is it treacherous, if we say clearly that's how it works? You want to use files, make all the value files. The other alternative is always use text and never CF_HDROP. Errors seem more treacherous here to me.
hiiamboris
23:37Because if it's an error then you know what to fix, but if it's doing something you don't think it should be doing and it gives no clue, it's hard to debug.
23:37You might not even think of blaming write-clipboard.
greggirwin
23:41I disagree, but what error do you throw in this case? Because throwing an error means you can *never* mix file values with other types in what you write to the clipboard, right?

hiiamboris
10:10Invalid argument I guess.
10:11Well, never until someone finds a way how to do that usefully.
10:18We could for example register our own clipboard format and put Redbin into it. Though I still don't like the act of switching on condition that one of the items is not file or string.
10:20And it doesn't seem very useful to me.

olivier_lp_twitter
22:37Hi, is it planned to be able to access librairies from script mode or it will always be needed to compile? such a long way to see all possibilities.
compilation is a big add from rebol, but is should be nice to be as much as rebol in script mode

By now, just waiting to be able to use port on file, and hope to be able to handle different files encoding, to switch from rebol to red
(and maybe some improves in GUI)
hiiamboris
22:53what do you mean *librairies*?
Respectech
22:53I'm assuming .dll and .so
hiiamboris
22:54@greggirwin might know
greggirwin
23:01@olivier_lp_twitter yes, it is planned. The sticking point has been struct mapping at the Red level. @dockimbel has some ideas on this. I used FFI from R2 a *lot*, so I push for this feature as well.
hiiamboris
23:39I think it can be solved with a few routines if it's badly needed.
23:48Most boring part will be to make RS call a function that wasn't statically defined. I suppose you'll have to define a single function pointer type for every number of arguments for every calling convention.

GiuseppeChillemi
16:45In the system/words object, all words exists even if they do not exists. They are created when you check for their existence. 
>> in system/words 'gggg
== gggg
>> in make object! [aaaa: 1] 'gggg
== none


I feel like being in the movie Inception.
How to you check if a word exists in system/words without creating it?
16:47Don't worry, I have just found a way:
16:48
>> unset? 'gggg
== false
>> value? 'gggg
== false
>> gggg: true
== true
>> value? 'gggg
== true

16:48value? is the solution
ne1uno
16:52if unset? get/any 'gghd [print off]
17:01unset? might be hazardous, but I can't recall why because it works. maybe it goes away some day?
hiiamboris
17:32value? IMO is more hazardous as it's easy to misuse:
>> value? in object [] 'x
== true
>> value? 'nonexisting/path
== true

GiuseppeChillemi
22:36What do you suggest?
hiiamboris
22:48stay vigilant :)

greggirwin
00:04I suggest hiding the detail and making the intent clear at the same time.
word-exists?: func [word [word!] /in obj [object!]][
	either all [in  not same? obj system/words] [
		not none? system/words/in obj word
	][
		value? word
	]
]

There might be a more elegant implementation of course.
00:06If you *only* care about system words, it's just word-exists?: :value? :^)

GiuseppeChillemi
22:59@hiiamboris :D

Moppy_gitlab
20:23How do you set a variable globally? 
book-check: func [hand] [ 
	foreach book books [ 
		counter: 0 record: [] 
		repeat card-numb probe length? hand [
			if (first hand/:card-numb) = book [
				counter: counter + 1 append/only record hand/:card-numb
		]]
		if counter = 4 [hand: exclude hand record] ;not being set globally 
	]
]

obh: [["a" 0] ["a" 1] ["q" 0] ["a" 2] ["a" 3]]
book-check obh
probe obh

The result I want is [["q" 0]], but this isn't being set globally to obh.
Oldes
20:30You can use set global-word "foo" to have global-word global (for example).
20:31Can you include example of books data?
20:33@Moppy_gitlab try this:
>> f: func ['word][ ? word ? :word set :word random 100 ]  num: 0  f num  
WORD is a word! value: num

NUM is an integer! value: 0

== 13
>> num
== 13
Moppy_gitlab
21:03@Oldes books's data is ["a" "2" "3" "4" "5" "6" "7" "8" "9" "10" "j" "q" "k"]
21:03the actual removal works fine
Oldes
21:09
book-check: function ['hand] [ 
    data: get/any :hand
    foreach book books [ 
        counter: 0 record: clear [] 
        repeat card-numb probe length? data [
            if (first data/:card-numb) = book [
                counter: counter + 1 append/only record data/:card-numb
        ]]
        if counter = 4 [data: exclude data record] ;not being set globally 
    ]
    set :hand data 
]
Moppy_gitlab
21:12@Oldes what is get/any? and why is making a new variable necessary?
Oldes
21:13in your case get is good as well.
21:13/any => If word has no value, return UNSET rather than causing an error.
Moppy_gitlab
21:13is there any difference between set and hand: ?
Oldes
21:14yes... hand: will be local and set global as you wanted.
Moppy_gitlab
21:15why does length? :hand not work?
21:17*** Script Error: length? does not allow word! for its series argument
21:17it's not a word, :hand is the value
Oldes
21:19
>> f: func['w][probe type? :w length? get :w]  blk: [1 2]  f blk
word!
== 2
Moppy_gitlab
21:20get :w seems repetitive, but whatever. I guess :w doesn't work properly
Oldes
21:21But that is what you wanted.. you may as well just do:
books: ["a" "2" "3" "4" "5" "6" "7" "8" "9" "10" "j" "q" "k"]
book-check: function [hand] [ 
    foreach book books [ 
        counter: 0 record: [] 
        repeat card-numb probe length? hand [
            if (first hand/:card-numb) = book [
                counter: counter + 1 append/only record hand/:card-numb
        ]]
        if counter = 4 [hand: exclude hand record] ;not being set globally 
    ]
    hand
]

obh: [["a" 0] ["a" 1] ["q" 0] ["a" 2] ["a" 3]]
obh: book-check obh
probe obh
Moppy_gitlab
21:24that looks exactly like what I wrote originally, which doesn't work. obh doesn't change value
Oldes
21:26obh: book-check obh is changing.
Moppy_gitlab
21:27
probe book-check obh
=== 
none
21:28okay, so you added hand at the end
greggirwin
21:28In functions, the last value evaluated is returned, even if return is not explicitly used.
Oldes
21:29If you want to modify the original data, you may use also:
books: ["a" "2" "3" "4" "5" "6" "7" "8" "9" "10" "j" "q" "k"]
book-check: function [hand] [ 
    foreach book books [ 
        counter: 0 record: copy [] 
        repeat card-numb probe length? hand [
            if (first hand/:card-numb) = book [
                counter: counter + 1 append/only record hand/:card-numb
        ]]
        if counter = 4 [result: exclude hand record insert clear hand result] ; a little bit cryptic :-)
    ]
]

obh: [["a" 0] ["a" 1] ["q" 0] ["a" 2] ["a" 3]]
book-check obh
probe obh
21:30You problem is, that exclude creates a new series.
21:32Or just:
book-check: function [hand] [ 
    foreach book books [ 
        counter: 0 record: copy [] 
        repeat card-numb probe length? hand [
            if (first hand/:card-numb) = book [
                counter: counter + 1 append/only record hand/:card-numb
        ]]
        if counter = 4 [return exclude hand record]
    ]
]

obh: [["a" 0] ["a" 1] ["q" 0] ["a" 2] ["a" 3]]
obh: book-check obh
probe obh
greggirwin
21:32@Moppy_gitlab where things got a little tricky is where @Oldes changed hand to 'hand in the func spec. We call this lit-arg syntax, and it's an advanced feature. With great power... :^)
Oldes
21:35@Moppy_gitlab you should be also careful with using just record: [] use record: copy [] instead!
greggirwin
21:36This is a bit deep as well, but here's why: https://github.com/red/red/wiki/%5BDOC%5D-Why-you-have-to-copy-series-values
Oldes
21:36@Moppy_gitlab 
>> f: func[v][blk: [] append blk v]  f 1
== [1]
>> source f
f: func [v][blk: [1] append blk v]
>> f "persistent in the function source!"
== [1 "persistent in the function source!"]
>> source f
f: func [v][blk: [1 "persistent in the function source!"] append blk v]
Moppy_gitlab
21:43I don't really get it. So Red makes some complicated things simple while making simple things complicated?
greggirwin
22:05@Moppy_gitlab you get it exactly. ;^)

But there is almost always a reason. In the case of copy, it's fundamental to the design, and the fact that Red is a data language first and foremost. Same with not having keywords. We *could* change these rules, but then Red would be a very different language, and lose many of its benefits compared to others. In many cases it's just getting used to how things work, until they seem natural.
mikeyaunish
22:06I did eventually resolve my searching for Red docs problem.
Made a simple search tool with Red (of course)
![alt](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/29316525/152436576-bd6aad69-2f73-451b-8ea4-1df77e8079d0.png)

Find it here: [red-online-search-tool.red](https://gist.github.com/mikeyaunish/4b842d0e54f52b3fd160668b0fa941b4)
greggirwin
22:06Woohoo! Will have to make time to play. Thanks @mikeyaunish !
Moppy_gitlab
22:09Are there examples a coding novice can appreciate which demonstrate how conflating data and code is beneficial?
22:10seems like mostly advanced programmers can understand it, but at that point they're probably invested in another way of doing things
22:18does record: [] not actually do anything after the first time?
hiiamboris
22:20@mikeyaunish *.red doesn't seem like it's working as designed?
![](https://i.gyazo.com/fe3f0fa8ab94d33301a939671c10f38d.png)
greggirwin
23:25> does record: [] not actually do anything after the first time?

Trick question. Define do. ;^) It's just two values, a set-word and a block. When Red *evaluates* them, it sees the set-word and says "Whatever comes next, I'll set this word to refer to that, kind of like a variable." Then it sees the block and says "This is a block. It's empty, so I don't need to allocate slots for values it 'contains', and I'm done." With the block evaluation done, record can be set to refer to it.
Moppy_gitlab
23:33test: [1 2 3 4]
>> foreach t test [
[    probe record: [] append record "a"]
[]
["a"]
["a" "a"]
["a" "a" "a"]
== ["a" "a" "a" "a"]
>>

>> foreach t test [
[    probe record: ["b"] append record "a"]
["b"]
["b" "a"]
["b" "a" "a"]
["b" "a" "a" "a"]
== ["b" "a" "a" "a" "a"]

>> test: [1 2 3 4]
== [1 2 3 4]
>> foreach t test [
[    append record "a"]
*** Script Error: record has no value
*** Where: either
*** Near : record "a"
*** Stack:

so what I'm getting from this, is initialization of a word is completely different from setting what that word refers to.
23:35but their syntax is the same in a lot of circumstances 
>> d: 1
== 1
>> d: 2
== 2
>> d
== 2
>>
Respectech
23:36In Redbol languages, it is a good idea to always initialize a new block or string with copy. If you want to do something more advanced, you can assign another word to an existing block or string, but both those words are simply pointers to the same memory structure.
Moppy_gitlab
23:38so are numbers in Rebols like java's "primitives", and have different rules?
Respectech
23:38Something like this:
record: copy ["b"]
foreach t test [
    probe append record "a"
]
23:40Numbers are generally integer! or decimal! datatypes. All datatypes have their own set of rules. For instance, if you add an integer! to a date!, should that add to the year, month, or day? In Redbol languages, it adds to the day.
23:41If you subtract two dates from each other, what should you get as a result? In Redbol languages, it is an integer of the number of days between those two dates.
Moppy_gitlab
23:41intuitively speaking(at least my intuition), subtracting dates would throw an error
Respectech
23:43If you asked a human to subtract a date from another date, what result would be the logical answer? Redbol languages deduce that the number of days between dates would be the answer.
mikeyaunish
23:43@hiiamboris - I get the same results. It's a fairly rudimentary Github filter, so there are lots of other kinds of ".red" source code on Github. Can't seem to get it to narrow down any more than this.
greggirwin
23:45> is initialization of a word is completely different from setting what that word refers to.

No. If you refer to a word that "doesn't exist" and Red tries to evaluate it (get what it refers to), you get an error (your record example). When you use a set-word, it doesn't do that, and in the special global context, adds an entry for that word. Normal contexts (objects) can't be extended right now, their words are set when they are created.

You can also use words as symbols. e.g. 'record. This is called a lit-word. When evaluated, they return themselves rather than what that word refers to. That's where get can be used, as sometimes words are used indirectly. Sounds advanced, again, but isn't in most cases.
23:50> so are numbers in Rebols like java's "primitives", and have different rules?

No, not at all. There are categories of values that share behavior. Numbers fall into the scalar category, which subsumes number and that contains [integer float percent]. We call these categories typesets. Blocks, strings, and more fall under series. Even at the bottom though, integers for example, are values with a common internal structure (and overhead). Some types can contain their entire content in that structure, while others need to store it elsewhere. e.g. an int is small and fits, but series vary in size and may be huge.

greggirwin
00:11> Are there examples a coding novice can appreciate which demonstrate how conflating data and code is beneficial?

*Really* good question @Moppy_gitlab, and one we should make a wiki page for, with links and examples. I don't know that it's for advanced programmers though. It may simplify things for anyone, but not in every case of course. The issue, and why your comment makes sense, is that it *seems* advanced if you're used to other langs, but in reality it's simpler.

This can go deep, sounding even *more* advanced, very quickly. If @9214 were here he'd explain it as fexprs vs sexprs, others might talk about thunks, but we can keep it simple. In most langs, code is evaluated when compiled, or interpreted. And that code is fixed. If you want added flexibility, you have to build it yourself. For example, let's say you have a switch statement in your code:

while [not empty? str: ask "What say you? "][
	print switch str [
		"Hello" ["Howdy"]
		"Bye" ["Later"]
	]
]

Normal code. If you want to change the list of inputs and outputs, you edit the code. But you *have to* edit the code. You have to edit it where it sits. You have to be in the middle of the file with a bunch of other code. You can't take it out, put it in a config file, or create a tool that lets users make their own.

chat-map: [
	"Hello"  ["Howdy"]
	"Bye"    ["Later"]
	"What?!" ["Yeah, that's right"]
]
while [not empty? str: ask "What say you? "][
	print switch str chat-map
]

Nothing scary there, right? But I smell your next fear. "WHAT?! Put executable...stuff in the hands of users? Some crazy person will use this to write self-modifying code and the world will end! How do you debug anything when code, I mean data that's code, could come from anywhere?" All valid concerns. It's not a silver bullet, it's a tool. Like abstraction in OOP it can be used well or abused terribly. Red gives you this gift, and this burden. We don't tell you how to think, but offer you tools for new ways of thinking.

If you want a massive dose of overload, this old experiment came to mind: [Reactive BMR Calc](https://gist.github.com/greggirwin/38883ca5109175a60896d2f406ee49f6). Note how data-ranges is data, and that other funcs operate at the data structure level, returning a rich structure rather than having separate functions for every possible value variation. I just noticed that this is so old it needs a fix, as it predates the change when / used to return an integer, but now returns a float.

@Moppy_gitlab, woud you mind creating a wiki page, and using this as a start? Maybe call it The Benefits of Code as Data or something along those lines.
Moppy_gitlab
00:50@greggirwin I've got no experience writing documentation, but I made the page.
00:50https://github.com/red/red/wiki/The-Benefits-of-Code-as-Data
00:51I'm not too familiar, but in most functional languages, isn't "setting" anything globally highly discouraged? Red seems to deviate in this way.
greggirwin
01:12Thanks @Moppy_gitlab! Wikis are made for tweaking. Doing the first draft is always the hardest part.
01:18Red is not a purely functional language, nor is it based on immutability. These are intentional design choices. e.g. you can build immutability on top of mutability, but not the other way around.

Red also aims to be pragmatic. I'm happy to be shown where this is wrong, but IME the more "pure" you go down the functional path, the less pragmatic things become. e.g. Haskell is an amazing language, but look how I/O works; and what good is software with no I/O? Also while some people love FP, others like having "state" where they can see and touch it, rather than keeping it all in their head and knowing it's being passed around from place to place. Human issues are our biggest technical challenge. :^)
01:18In Red, we care much more about "Can you get useful work done?" than any particular dogma.
01:21On the subject of immutability: https://gist.github.com/numberjay/3df8f13044145c6dde1918ea2cdfe3b8
Moppy_gitlab
01:28In python, it would kind of be like 
>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> a = [4, 5, 6]
>>> a
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
01:30in Red, it's still not like that though
>> r: [1 2 3]
== [1 2 3]
>> r: [4 5 6]
== [4 5 6]
>> r
== [4 5 6]
01:31
>> r: []
== []
>> r
== []
ne1uno
01:33more like static persistent variable. red acts at first glance like it has scope and variables till you dig deeper
Moppy_gitlab
01:33my point is that there's probably more difficulty to it than people just being used to other languages
ne1uno
01:34options
Moppy_gitlab
01:36If Red were to be taught as a first language, you'd have to explain "well it's like this here, but in THIS situation, you need to do things differently because the behavior changes". As opposed to "this is how it is and always is".
greggirwin
01:36@Moppy_gitlab if you search the wiki for Python, you'll find some great pages written by @GalenIvanov.
ne1uno
01:38https://github.com/red/red/wiki/%5BLINKS%5D-Scripts-collection
01:39https://github.com/red/red/wiki/[LINKS]-Scripts-collection
greggirwin
01:40> If Red were to be taught as a first language, you'd have to explain "well it's like this here, but in THIS situation, you need to do things differently because the behavior changes". As opposed to "this is how it is and always is".

Red is fairly consistent, and we keep trying to improve that, but if it were taught as a first language, the unlearning problem goes away. For example, to me these two lines of Python look the same:
>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> a = [4, 5, 6]

Why do I get a different result? Why does = append, or does that mean that the first one also appends, but to an invisible array I never see?
01:41And a = vs a is the same as r: vs r in both langs, isn't it?
01:42You do have to understand *some* things. Without those fundamentals, you can't do much in any language.
ne1uno
01:42https://github.com/red/red/wiki/Coming-to-Red-from-another-language
Moppy_gitlab
01:42@greggirwin having to write r: copy [], but only in the context of loops, is a little annoying.
greggirwin
01:43It's not only in the context of loops though. This is what you have to learn.

Thanks for the links @ne1uno. :+1:
Moppy_gitlab
01:49Then why does this work as I expect it to? 
>> r: [1]
== [1]
>> r: []
== []
>> r
== []

You posted a link explaining this, but to be honest a lot of it went over my head, and you called it a bit deep yourself.
greggirwin
01:52
r: a: [1]    ; R and A both refer to this block
r: b: []     ; R now refers to this one, as does B
r
a
b
same? a b
same? r a
same? r b
append b 2
r
append c: copy b 3    ; C refers to a NEW block, which is a copy of B.
r
same? b c
Moppy_gitlab
02:03Well that still makes me wonder why these two aren't equivalent 
>> r: []
== []
>> loop 3 [r: [] append r 3]
== [3 3 3]

>> r: []
== []
>> append r 3
== [3]
>> r: []
== []
>> append r 3
== [3]
>> r: []
== []
>> append r 3
== [3]
>> r
== [3]
02:07I mean, one of the most basic assumptions is that looping behaves the same as writing out the functions as many times as they repeat.
greggirwin
02:08Because in the first example, r inside the loop call is the same one for every append call. You haven't changed it to a new reference. In the second example, you set r to refer to a new and different block every time you do r: [].
02:08That's why I linked to the wiki page on copying.
02:12
loop 3 blk: [r: [] append r 3  print mold blk]
blk/1
blk/2
same? r blk/2
Moppy_gitlab
02:13so, to put it simply r: [] behaves differently inside a loop, because loop's instructions are inside a "block"?
greggirwin
02:13So there *is* a difference here, when you're working in the console, because there's kind a big outer block you don't see.
02:16
code: [
	r: []
	append r 1
	r: []
	append r 2
	r: []
	append r 3
]
do code
print mold code
r

02:18Now you can see that the first two blocks still exist, but r no longer refers to them. You can still access them though.
foreach val code [print mold val]
code/2
; etc.
02:19It's a mind-bender for some people. You don't *even* want to ask about bind and contexts yet. ;^)
Moppy_gitlab
02:22I can see myself telling someone "in a loop, you have to add copy to set a word to a series, just because".
greggirwin
02:24If you can see yourself explaining it that way, please send them here and I'll try to do better than "just because". Also, Red isn't for everyone, we acknowledge that.
02:26We like The Matrix references too, the red pill and all that, and this one would be where Morpheus tells Neo that they don't free people after a certain age because "the mind finds it hard to let go". :^)
Moppy_gitlab
02:26Is 20 too old?
Respectech
greggirwin
02:32I was almost 40 when my mind was freed.
Moppy_gitlab
02:33To be more optimistic, I could call it a documentation problem, where the article explaining something as basic as how to set a reference to a series within a loop and why mentions serialization. If people being too used to other languages is the main problem, it's kind of a vicious cycle when existing documentation assumes that much knowledge.
greggirwin
02:36Everyone hits different hurdles at different times. We're always open to improving docs. If you understand it now, give it a shot. You have the newcomer's perspcctive that we don't.
Moppy_gitlab
02:39
?? loop
loop: make native! [[
    "Evaluates body a number of times"
    count [integer! float!]
    body [block!]
]]

Okay, so the body is a block type. And it's not this
>> do [r: [] append r 3]
== [3]
>> do [r: [] append r 3]
== [3]
>> do [r: [] append r 3]
02:42I want to see how loop's behavior can be explained without loop.
ne1uno
02:43f: func [][r: probe [] repeat i 5 [ append r i probe r ]] f f
greggirwin
02:44Go back to my code example.
code: [
	do [r: [] append r 3]
	do [r: [] append r 3]
	do [r: [] append r 3]
]
do code
print mold code
Moppy_gitlab
02:45@ne1uno ah, so r's value within f is never discarded even after f finishes evaluating
02:46it's just preserved I guess?
ne1uno
02:46that's why you'll usually want a copy
greggirwin
02:46Or maybe this. These are equivalent:
loop 3 blk: [r: [] append r 3  print mold blk]
loop 3 blk: [r: [] append blk/2 3  print mold blk]

Then you can see that r isn't needed at all.
loop 3 blk: [[] append blk/1 3  print mold blk]

Now you have to use blk to refer to it, but that's incidental to how it works. It shows that setting a word to refer to something does not affect the thing it refers to.
02:48This might be good chat to cut into, or link to, the why you have to copy wiki page.
Moppy_gitlab
02:55When evaluated, it binds the word to the result of next expression. It doesn't do anything more than that. So a: "" does not "reset" or "reinitialize" the "variable" a. That is an incorrect interpretation, it just makes the word a refer to the literal string "" which follows it.
02:56within here though f: func [][r: [] repeat i 5 [ append r i probe r ]] f f, r: [] doesn't actually make r refer to an empty series
02:57r is "unsettable" it seems
ne1uno
02:57r: make string! 10 is another of various ways. you wan't always want an explicit copy
Moppy_gitlab
03:01f: func [][r: 89 r:[] repeat i 5 [ append r i probe r ]] f f does the same thing in the end. So I guess series are just never destroyed no matter what.
03:05
>> f: func [][r:[] repeat i 5 [ append r i probe r] r: 89]
== func [][r: [] repeat i 5 [append r i probe r] r: 89]
>> f
[1]
[1 2]
[1 2 3]
[1 2 3 4]
[1 2 3 4 5]
== 89
>> f
[1 2 3 4 5 1]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5]
== 89

I can only say this is bizarre.
greggirwin
03:06Define destroyed. 
f: func [][r: copy [] repeat i 5 [ append r i probe r ]] f f

Moppy_gitlab
03:06it's like Red says "last time when r was a series it was this, so I'll append it to that"
03:07Red doesn't say "r is this, now r is that, now r is something else"
greggirwin
03:07
>> f: func [][r:[] repeat i 5 [ append r i probe r] r: 89]
== func [][r: [] repeat i 5 [append r i probe r] r: 89]
>> print mold body-of :f
[r: [] repeat i 5 [append r i probe r] r: 89]
>> f
[1]
[1 2]
[1 2 3]
[1 2 3 4]
[1 2 3 4 5]
== 89
>> f
[1 2 3 4 5 1]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5]
== 89
>> print mold body-of :f
[r: [1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5] repeat i 5 [append r i probe r] r: 89]
>> f: func [][r: copy [] repeat i 5 [ append r i probe r ]] f f
[1]
[1 2]
[1 2 3]
[1 2 3 4]
[1 2 3 4 5]
[1]
[1 2]
[1 2 3]
[1 2 3 4]
[1 2 3 4 5]
== [1 2 3 4 5]
>> print mold body-of :f
[r: copy [] repeat i 5 [append r i probe r]]

I think we should call it a night. I don't know of another way to explain it right now.
03:09This is a key phrase from the wiki page:

> Every function body is just a block of data, that you can manipulate as any other data, and you can do so at any time. There is no point in time where your "source code" becomes "code". It is, and remains, data.
Moppy_gitlab
03:10To be honest, I don't know much about data.
ne1uno
03:11you can use probe between most statements to see what is happening, it passes values through
greggirwin
03:12> To be honest, I don't know much about data.

That will make Red a big challenge for you, but also a good way to learn about data. Another key phrase from the wiki:

> Red & Rebol are data formats first, before being programming languages.
Moppy_gitlab
03:15
>> f: func [][probe r: "a" probe r:[] repeat i 5 [ append probe r i] probe r: 89]
== func [][probe r: "a" probe r: [] repeat i 5 [append probe r i] probe r: 89]
>> f
"a"
[]
[]
[1]
[1 2]
[1 2 3]
[1 2 3 4]
89
== 89
>> f
"a"
[1 2 3 4 5]
[1 2 3 4 5]
[1 2 3 4 5 1]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4]
89
== 89
03:23
>> f: func [][probe r: [] repeat i 5 [append r (i * -1)] probe r:[] repeat i 5 [ append r i]]
== func [][probe r: [] repeat i 5 [append r (i * -1)] probe r: [] repeat i 5 [append r i]]
>> f
[]
[]
== [1 2 3 4 5]
>> f
[-1 -2 -3 -4 -5]
[1 2 3 4 5]
== [1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5]
>> f
[-1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5]
[1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5]
== [1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5]
03:27It's pretty interesting how that works. I suppose it's a feature.
03:31kind of goes back to this >>> none = [] == false
greggirwin
03:34> I suppose it's a feature.

LOL. Yeah, it is.

Red is a deeply designed language. There will be some unintended consequences here and there, but it's built on a strong and intentional foundation.
03:35> >>> none = [] == false

I have no idea what that means.
Moppy_gitlab
03:35What I mean is that none is not a way to refer to literally "an empty series". Neither is []
03:36I wonder if there is anything that always means "empty series"
greggirwin
03:36Correct. The only "falsy" values are none and false/off/no. We have empty? to ask about emptiness.
Moppy_gitlab
03:37like a shorthand for copy []
greggirwin
03:37No, not at all.
03:38This can also become a long discussion. :^) Use help in the console for empty?
03:39And source.
03:39You can use [] to compare to an empty block, but that's not as meaningful.
pekr
06:24@Moppy_gitlab Your example of Python assignment is a complete headache, sorry. If you you claim, that Red's behaviour is "strange", then I just wonder, how can anyone explain what Python does here? It just looks terrible, sorry.
For appending to the series, we've got function like append or insert. Which leads me to the following - one of the most important aspect of Redbol languages, is a concept of series. There is still Rebol Core documentation, which I would suggest you reading this chapter - http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore-6.html
06:30The series is just a .... series of data, unless evaluated. So you can manipulate the serie in many ways:

>> code: [print [1 2 3]]
== [print [1 2 3]]
>> code/1
== print
>> first code
== print
>> code/2/3
== 3
>> at code 2
== [[1 2 3]]
>> sort copy code
== [[1 2 3] print]
>> insert code "before"
== [print [1 2 3]]
>> append code "behind"
== ["before" print [1 2 3] "behind"]
>> remove back tail code
== []
>> code
== ["before" print [1 2 3]]
>> remove head code
== [print [1 2 3]]
>> do code
1 2 3
Moppy_gitlab
06:38@pekr python doesn't actually work like that, at all
pekr
07:01I don't mind a differences between langs, but two times assigning a values to the same variable leading to addition / appending, looks really awful even for experienced, not to mention novices. And yes, Redbol langs have their gotchas, one of them being the need to copy the empty series to be safe. I can understand the benefits of having various words pointing to the same or different position in the series, but can't see a value in the case of an empty block usage. It burns most of the users. But then - I don't belong into the group of gurus here :-)
07:28Well, it seems that reusage of empty series is happening only in a function calls, not when prototyping in a console, so it has to have something to do with the function indefinite extent, or how was that called?:

;-- empty block in a function
>> test: func [value][c: [] append c value]
== func [value][c: [] append c value]
>> test 1
== [1]
>> c
== [1]
>> test 2
== [1 2]
>> c
== [1 2]

;-- empty block in a console
>> d: []
== []
>> append d 1
== [1]
>> d: []
== []
>> append d 2
== [2]
>> d
== [2]


Oldes
08:46@pekr 
>> c: context [b: [] f: func[v][append b v]]
== make object! [
    b: []
    f: func [v][append b v]
]
>> c/f 1
== [1]
>> c/f 2
== [1 2]
>> c
== make object! [
    b: [1 2]
    f: func [v][append b v]
]
08:46when you make a function, the values inside it's body must have a context
pekr
08:56you always have some context, no? In the case of the console, you are using a global context.
Oldes
08:57The body of the function is made only once, while in console you create the block every time.
pekr
08:58In case of object above, such functionality makes a sense. With a bare-bones function only, where it behaves just the same, it might be a bit difficult for a novice user to understand / get accustomed to ....
08:58Ah, thanx for the explanation, that makes sense. Those are the sentences, which explain things and should be part of the docs imo ....
Oldes
09:00You don't want copy everything every time... only where you really want it.
09:07For example here:
>> f: func[v][ print ["The Value is:" v] ]
== func [v][print ["The Value is:" v]]
>> f 1
The Value is: 1

you really don't want to make a copy of block ["The Value is:" v] and copy of string "The Value is:" every time, when you call the function.
09:13@Moppy_gitlab in your case, you could also use record: clear [] instead of record: copy []. Using the clear has the advantage, that you re-use already created series (no allocation), but you still start with empty record. You just have to be careful not to return the value from the function, because next run of the function always clears it.
hiiamboris
11:45@mikeyaunish FYI in all Firefox forks you can define your own search plugins, e.g.:
![](https://i.gyazo.com/622d462d19390a0d6b009e5c9bfd7faf.png)
Then in search-metadata.json you list them with an *alias* e.g. "[profile]/mal.xml":{"alias":"a"}. Now entering a term in the URL bar will perform MAL search for term. I think Opera must have smth like this too (in fact the idea likely originated from Opera back in it's better days, though idk if it survived the switch to Chromium).
mikeyaunish
16:50@hiiamboris Sounds interesting. I'll look into it. Not sure what more utility this will bring to my search efforts, but I'll give it a try.
Moppy_gitlab
17:25@Oldes makes sense. If Red is primarily a data format, I wonder how it compares/its advantages compared to other data formats. What I've seen has mostly compared Red to programming languages. I also wonder how well it interfaces with non-Red technologies that use data.
hiiamboris
17:28Advantage is 50+ datatypes. Disadvantage is also 50+ datatypes ;)
Moppy_gitlab
17:32I mean, people seem to like treating all data the same, and then making a parsing scheme for every different usage.
rebolek
18:41@Moppy_gitlab what it means is that you need to think of everything being just data until it's executed.
rgchris
21:19@Moppy_gitlab This isn't a comparison per se, but hits at the purpose of Red (or Rebol as the subject of the post) as a text-based data format: ['Was XML flawed from the start?'](http://www.rebol.com/article/0108.html). You could start to pick apart the merits on this basis; the challenges in not having the ubiquity of, say, JSON or XML; or even the complexity in writing a parser; but there's few data formats that operate quite in the same scope. Not everything about Red's specific interpretation of data-as-code is necessarily a given, but it does strongly inform how it works as a language.
Moppy_gitlab
21:34Tried another crack at writing a Go Fish program. All of the "processes" work on their own. Together, it sometimes freezes before request, and book-check doesn't seem to work despite working on its own when I tested it.
21:34https://github.com/Dry-Leaf/Go-Fish-in-Red/blob/main/gofish.red
21:35I don't know how to debug it.
21:39maybe book-check should for the other player now that I think about it.
21:55@rgchris the shortcomings of XML mentioned in that article are probably why it fell of out popularity in favor of json.
greggirwin
22:43Thanks for chiming in @rgchris. Nice old article.
hiiamboris
22:50From working with XML I'd say it has much bigger flaw: lack of arrays. Programmers always work with arrays of data, there's no escape from that. But in XML you represent array as sparse separate elements, and you have to filter *through everything* to get them. This format just doesn't map to computers. And maps even worse to humans.
Moppy_gitlab
22:52So does anyone know where to start with debugging my program, because I'm at a loss here?
23:03This is one output of it being run. At the end there it froze with no error or it crashing. https://pastebin.com/raw/qEp0RsVe
greggirwin
23:29@Moppy_gitlab if your program "freezes", look to where infinite loops can occur. e.g. until. See what results are getting back to it, and maybe add a counter to break after N repetitions so it stops and lets you see if it always freezes after the same number of iterations, or different counts. Then remove randomness. Seed it with a known value and you should see consistent behavior. Look for a seed that makes it freeze, and then analyze the state of things to see where it goes wrong.

Hope this helps.
Moppy_gitlab
23:56@greggirwin I've figured out the problem is with this specific loop. I don't know why that would happen though.
search (choice: request) human_hand 
	]

Moppy_gitlab
00:00The loop does not run infinitely every time, but eventually it always does. And it's not because human_hand is empty.
00:02request seems to refuse to be invoked
00:10I mean okay r: [] doesn't clear r, but does r: function not call function every time?
00:15realized I need to write active_hand: book-check active_hand active_books, which is something else
gltewalt
01:05> I don't know how to debug it.

I would start with a couple print statements in the untilblocks. "In first until", "In second until".
01:06Or you can try debug or trace
Moppy_gitlab
01:14@gltewalt Is trace a new build in word?
rgchris
01:17> @rgchris the shortcomings of XML mentioned in that article are probably why it fell of out popularity in favor of json.

Possibly, but there's also no escaping XML, it just keeps turning up in the wrong places like a bad smell :(

JSON is likely wildly successful for it's (almost) simplicity, but vs. Redbol, you lose the implicit metadata from that array of datatypes (what does a 'date' look like in JSON?), not least the ability to represent code/language. Again, can argue the value of that, but that is the niche
Moppy_gitlab
01:17after changing it to, 
until [ ;probe human_hand
				trace search (choice: request) human_hand 
			]

the computer's turn seems to repeat indefinitely, even after fish is called.
01:25@rgchris people don't use json by itself. Maybe Red could just be used as a drop in for json, and nothing more, but I doubt that's the intended purpose or would have significant benefit. If Red is meant to be used by itself, wouldn't the programming part be no less important?
gltewalt
01:28Yeah, trace and debug are both fairly new
ne1uno
01:33@Moppy_gitlab https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/interp-events.adoc post your source somewhere too. need do/trace choice etc or probe choice to see what it returns
Moppy_gitlab
01:34@ne1uno source is right here https://github.com/Dry-Leaf/Go-Fish-in-Red/blob/main/gofish.red
gltewalt
01:35That expression is never true then. until evaluates a body until it is truthy.
greggirwin
01:35@Moppy_gitlab be sure you understand what stops until, and what your expressions return when you use them there.
Moppy_gitlab
01:35Well it can't be truthy if request isn't invoked
01:36sometimes request is invoked
01:36and then it stops being invoked
gltewalt:matrix.org
01:39Is it running out of cards in the hand?
Moppy_gitlab
01:40No, I've put
01:40print human_hand in the until loops, and it's not empty
01:40and even if it was empty, request should still be invoked
01:49so after putting probe choice this is the output around when the freezing starts, 
Computer's choice:  10

Computer's choice:  4


Go Fish

Remaining Books:  a 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 j q k

Your hand:

q♥  j♥  5♠  5♦  j♠  3♦  2♦  k♣  8♥  3♠  q♣  k♦

"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
"10"
.....................
01:52maybe this happens, every second time the computer gets "go fish"
01:53
Computer's choice:  9


Computer's choice:  6


Go Fish


Remaining Books:  a 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 j q k


Your hand:

5♦  k♦  k♣  q♥  7♠  7♥  k♠  8♦  5♥  3♠  2♣  8♥

"9"
"9"
"9"
...
greggirwin
01:56Looks like you're making progress debugging.
Moppy_gitlab
02:11It appears book-check actually also isn't working. I think I give up. I now appreciate variables more.
gltewalt:matrix.org
02:17It was a pain in the butt a few times for me.
Moppy_gitlab
02:18I just want to quickly make small parts, and have them work together in a predictable way, without any weird esoteric behavior getting in my way.
greggirwin
02:20> weird esoteric behavior

If you mean Red should work just like other langs, then maybe it isn't for you. It's not weird or esoteric, just different than what you're used to.
gltewalt:matrix.org
02:22Have you done a version in python? If so, what it easy?
Moppy_gitlab
02:23In another lang, someone would easily be able to point out exactly where things go wrong and why. @gltewalt:matrix.org I should try that.
gltewalt:matrix.org
02:23Was it
greggirwin
02:26> In another lang, someone would easily be able to point out exactly where things go wrong and why.

I don't want to be harsh here @Moppy_gitlab, but are you saying it's on us to debug your code? We are trying to help, but it's not clear if you've done what we've suggested.
gltewalt:matrix.org
02:26Give it a try. Then you'll have a better idea as to whether it's the foreign nature of the language or just underestimating the difficulty level of go fish
greggirwin
02:27Listen to @gltewalt:matrix.org here. I haven't written GoFish, so have no first-hand experience with what challenges it presents.
Moppy_gitlab
02:30I think Go Fish is a trivial program, which I'll test now by trying to write it in python. I don't expect someone else to debug my code, but I think in another language, behavior like an infinite loop is more easily explainable than necessitating general detective work. Every bit of code is kind of self-contained.
greggirwin
02:34> behavior like an infinite loop is more easily explainable than necessitating general detective work.

We pointed out likely causes for it getting stuck, but without understanding *all* of your code (the way it's written), we can't guess which part isn't working as *you* expect in the context of *this* problem.
ne1uno
02:36testing is the way too be sure smaller parts work together. document/comments/good naming can only help. probably some function isn't doing what you thought.
greggirwin
02:37And while I haven't tried to run it, I don't think we can, because an included file isn't in the repo.
Moppy_gitlab
02:39because an included file isn't in the repo. what do you mean by that?
02:39oh, pc.red
ne1uno
02:39might be #include %pc.red From https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Playing_cards#Red ... comments
Moppy_gitlab
02:39I've added it
gltewalt:matrix.org
02:40If I ever take another whack at it, I'm going to model it using object to see how that goes
gltewalt
03:38The first issue is definitely:
until [ probe human_hand
				search (choice: request) human_hand 
			]

I assume that's where you want to let them keep guessing as long as the guess pip correctly
Moppy_gitlab
03:39as long as what you pick is something in your hand
03:40if what you pick is also in the computer's hand(so no go fish), your turn should repeat
gltewalt:matrix.org
04:00That part goes into infinite loop because it's never true
04:01If you're using find and it returns none, that's a falsey value
04:01Or, at a point it is no longer ever true
Moppy_gitlab
04:02@gltewalt:matrix.org trying running it yourself, and you will see what I mean
gltewalt:matrix.org
04:03I probably will later tonight sometime
ne1uno
04:03make 'tester a player that chooses random actions
Moppy_gitlab
04:09making the computer only pick randomly does seem to eliminate the infinite loop
04:09is this because request in ai is redefined?
04:10that would make sense
04:14renaming request to computer_request in ai seems to have fixed it.
04:19if you're importing a lot of libraries, I could see accidentally renaming something and breaking said library being a high risk.
gltewalt:matrix.org
04:22That's why context is often used
ne1uno
04:22one difference between funcand function, easy ability to step on top level words
04:30add /local words or change to function and use /extern to get outside access
bubnenkoff
11:08Hi! A theoretical question. What is the difference between a language and a simple set of functions? foo(), bar(),. baz() are not yet a language.
ne1uno
11:45is it turing complete, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness
11:55does it have a good name
13:15to a lesser extent is there a methodology or syntax it invents or inherits. are there design goals. a problem it will solve. is there a rosettacode page.
13:37https://stackoverflow.com/questions/145176/is-html-considered-a-programming-language
13:55 view, parse and the other DSL in red-lang and Rebol are of this type https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_language
gltewalt:matrix.org
17:36@Moppy_gitlab: ya I'm guessing it was searching a hand to make sure the player had that pip in its hand. But it never did because request wasn't the right value. Then until was never true and it went infinite
17:38I want to try something with trace later, so I'll run the broken version
Moppy_gitlab
18:05@gltewalt:matrix.org I finished the python version. I was pretty rusty(not that I was ever that experienced). I think the biggest difference is how python has some data types that are mutable, so you can change them via parameters using methods, and you can't redefine functions to be something else since they're treated differently from variables. Maybe if I carefully rewrote everything using function instead, and used Red's way declaring global usage of words, it would start working. Python's error messages are also much more helpful in my opinion.
18:06https://github.com/Dry-Leaf/Go-Fish-in-Python
20:00I wrote this, a bunch of examples to succinctly demonstrate how scope works in Red
20:00https://github.com/Dry-Leaf/Red-Behavior-Examples/blob/main/code%20examples.txt
hiiamboris
20:05I suggest reading https://github.com/red/red/wiki/[DOC]-Guru-Meditations#contexts-and-binding
Moppy_gitlab
20:09I believe in show, not tell.
20:15"Rebol just tries to fake them, cloaking itself as a thing that "kinda-sorta looks like an Algol-family language with functions, lexical scope and conventional while loops and stuff". Why should a user care then?
greggirwin
20:16Examples are great to show *how* things work. Explanations are needed to show *why* things work.
20:19User's only need to care *sometimes*, but those times can be important. Most of the time you can treat an electric car like a gas-powered car, but if you run out of battery power, and are stuck at the side of the road, do you blame the car because the full gas can in your trunk doesn't help? :^)
20:20Thanks for posting the Python version for comparison.
hiiamboris
20:20I think Vladimir left a lot of examples there. And [here](https://github.com/red/community/blob/master/how-to/spuny-mortals.red)
greggirwin
20:21Having done that, did it help you understand what worked different in the Red version, and how it went wrong?
Moppy_gitlab
20:22yes, but I'd have a hard time fixing the code I already have, so if I try again, I'd rewrite it from scratch
greggirwin
20:22That's often how things go, both from the science and craft perspectives.
20:24"Doing" is a good teacher, maybe the best even. A filmmaker's first film, or an author's first book, is rarely their best, or even good sometimes.
Moppy_gitlab
20:29"You can have [rock rock rock rock] block where each rock means a different thing, where it is bound to a specific context. Not only that, but you can also change the meaning of any word, simply by altering its binding." How does this affect the readability of code?
hiiamboris
20:35Depends on the writer ☻
ne1uno
20:35rr.gg.bb.aa all colors.
greggirwin
20:41@Moppy_gitlab I wouldn't have sent you down that path just yet. "This is not the feature you're looking for." but now it can't be unseen.

Consider how words are used in Red. You can see here how text has no meaning, but you can use the word in the contexts of VID and draw, each of which do different things. Here they are just symbols, but the idea holds that the same word can have a different meaning in different contexts.
>> text
*** Script Error: text has no value
*** Where: set
*** Near : text
*** Stack:  

>> view [text "Hello!" base 300x100 white draw [text 20x40 "Different meaning here."]]
20:42
view [
	text "Hello!"
	base 300x100 white draw [
		text 20x40 "Different meaning here."
	]
]
20:42Just clearer formatting.
20:45It's true that they both "show text", but they operate differently behind the scenes, and their surrounding code in VID or draw is tailored to each context.
Moppy_gitlab
20:46sure, but that can be likened to the parameters of functions, or instance variable in objects, in other languages. How does text meaning different things in different "contexts" create uniquely Red effects?
20:47it also reminds me of the fields in html
greggirwin
20:48As a user, you don't have to write text-face and draw-text to disambiguate them, with the naming explosion that goes along with that approach. Instead, you build a vocabulary and write expressions, much like we write sentences in natural language, to say what you mean as clearly as possible. This is where [rock rock rock rock] says *why*, but isn't as helpful on the intent side.
ne1uno
20:48the essential thing seems to be a block can hold multiple context, not that you must name them all rock
20:51most code is reduced, not from literal scripts. in most other languages you might have a limited painful string eval if anything at all.
greggirwin
20:53> that can be likened to the parameters of functions, or instance variable in objects, in other languages

For this aspect, write a baby version of VID or draw in Python. Doesn't have to generate output, just recognize the input such that work could be done with it. A small subset will do, as they are large dialects.
ne1uno
21:08coming from python, you're probably aware of the potential side effects with un-trusted code. I don't think that problem has been solved anywhere yet. it's always worth mentioning with eval
hiiamboris
21:14bad writing example:
c: context compose/deep [
	draw: function [] [
		view [
			image 200x200 (
				draw 100x100 [translate 50x50 rotate 45 line-width 10 pen gold box -40x-40 40x40]
			)
			draw [pen off draw: fill-pen cyan circle 100x100 70]
			rate 5 on-time [draw/2: random cyan]
		]
	]
]
c/draw
Moppy_gitlab
21:24@ne1uno I'm really not "coming from python". The amount of code I've written in each is close to equal.
ne1uno
21:25import/include too. plenty of ways.
Moppy_gitlab
21:45what the problem with this? 
>> storage: []
== []
>> l1: function [] [a: 0 b: 0 c: 0]
== func [][a: 0 b: 0 c: 0]
>> l2: function [] [a: 1 b: 1 c: 1]
== func [][a: 1 b: 1 c: 1]
>> l3: function [] [a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]
== func [][a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]
>> append storage [bind 'a context l3 bind 'b context l2 bind 'c context l1]
== [bind 'a context l3 bind 'b context l2 bind 'c context l3]
>> reduce storage
*** Script Error: context does not allow integer! for its spec argument
*** Where: context
*** Near : 2
*** Stack: context
ne1uno
21:47a:2: 4
Moppy_gitlab
21:47oh, it's spaces
ne1uno
21:49 ==: >>: none now you can copy & paste examples
Moppy_gitlab
21:53after adding spaces
21:53
*** Script Error: context does not allow integer! for its spec argument
*** Where: context
*** Near : 2
*** Stack: context
21:55I guess saying context l3 first evaluates l3 and returns an integer
21:56maybe context 'l3 ?
21:56
*** Script Error: context does not allow word! for its spec argument
*** Where: context
*** Near : 'l3 bind 'b context 'l2 bind 'c context
*** Stack: context
22:00can I retrieve a word's context, not the word itself or its value?
ne1uno
22:03? context?
22:04maybe someone else sees how to do this, I don't trust myself with bind
Moppy_gitlab
22:06
>> storage: clear []
>> append storage [bind 'a context context? 'l3 bind 'b context context? 'l2 bind 'c context context? 'l1]
>> reduce storage
*** Script Error: context does not allow object! for its spec argument
*** Where: context
*** Near : 'l3 bind 'b context context? 'l2 bind 'c
*** Stack: context
22:08The word context is a shorter form of make object!. Well, what about when the object is already made?
22:08maybe leave out context ?
22:11
>> storage: clear []
>> append storage [bind 'a context? 'l3 bind 'b context? 'l2 bind 'c context? 'l1]
>> reduce storage
== [a b c]
greggirwin
22:11Make.
Moppy_gitlab
22:15make needs a spec argument, and context is the same as make object!
22:16
>> reduce make block! storage
== [a b c]
>> storage
== [bind 'a context? 'l3 bind 'b context? 'l2 bind 'c context? 'l1]
greggirwin
22:16Ah, my mistake, I thought L3 was an object, not a function. Not sure what you're trying to do, but I'm working on other things ATM.
Moppy_gitlab
22:18I've set words in 3 different functions with different values. I want a to make a block with a, b and c using bind such that the result is [2 1 0]
22:21basically instead of rural-park in append rocks bind 'rock rural-park: context [rock: "mineral"], I want to use a context I made elsewhere, specifically a function's context.
hiiamboris
22:31just play in console, what does context? 'l3 return
22:31it will be MUCH faster than asking
22:33you seem to have a heavy habit of trying to build complex things without looking at the small things you're building them out of
greggirwin
22:41> you seem to have a heavy habit of trying to build complex things without looking at the small things you're building them out of

I had the same thought. Red can be so exciting that people want to run before they can stand.
hiiamboris
22:43You also should ask yourself, what *is* the context of a function?
22:44Or how can you discover the answer to that without asking us or documentation (imagine console is your only world)?
Moppy_gitlab
23:04Alright, I'll try doing it like that. Though I'm not sure how large adoption of the language would be possible if everyone is expected to do it that way.
greggirwin
23:07For comparison with what you're trying to do (function pointers and closures it seems at a glance), I encourage you to write the equivalent code in any other language.
ne1uno
23:09you can run and rerun a script
greggirwin
23:09To @hiiamboris' point, we can show you *how* (an example of working code), but that won't teach you *why*, which has to be learned and internalized if you want to be able to do things on your own.
Moppy_gitlab
23:10@greggirwin I probably wouldn't try doing that, since those have global and local scope, whereas Red's analogue for that is explained in "Guru mediations" with examples that use bind.
23:10so I think "well I have to understand bind now"
greggirwin
23:15In my experience, almost no application/line-of-business code needs to use bind. It's one of the most advanced aspects of Red.

But I can't really help with your original problem because you asked:

> what the problem with this?

And showed code with an error. I have *no* idea what your actual goal is, as far as functionality. What are you trying to accomplish? If it's to understand contexts, great, then you *do* need to understand bind. :^)
Moppy_gitlab
23:16Do I *need* to understand contexts?
23:16to write applications
greggirwin
23:17Only at a very basic level. e.g. objects contain words that refer to values in their context.
23:21And that functions can have local words, with the next step being to understand the difference between func and function, and how to control what's local and what's external to a function. This will lead you to set vs set-word syntax, and you're on your way.
Moppy_gitlab
23:23So how would you explain the use of /extern? https://www.red-by-example.org/#function uses the term global scope, but Red does not have not have such a thing. Should global scope be replaced with top-level context?
greggirwin
23:28system context is a good way to think of it. Kind of in between the two.
23:29And that should lead you to exploring system. :^)
ne1uno
23:31many scripts & examples don't use objects or context just to keep it simple. nobody thinks unrestricted global is better
Moppy_gitlab
23:31
>> context? 'l3
== make object! [
    datatype!: datatype!
    unset!: unset!
    none!: none!
    logic!: logic!
    block!:...

This seems to get cut off.
greggirwin
23:33By default, the console limits output. You can use probe or print mold to see the full value.
ne1uno
23:36print [mold spec-of :l3 mold body-of :l3]
Moppy_gitlab
23:39I tried probe, the output is extremely massive. print [mold spec-of :l3 mold body-of :l3] is less so. Not sure what to make of it though.
23:40
>> print [mold spec-of :l3 mold body-of :l3]
[/local a b c] [a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]

Seems to be just the definition
23:42interesting result 
>> f1: context function [] [a: 0 b: 0 c: 0]
*** Script Error: context does not allow function! for its spec argument
23:43makes sense since context is the same as make object!
23:45functions have their own context, but they aren't objects
23:46
>> f1: function [] [a: 0 b: 0 c: 0]
== func [/local a b c][a: 0 b: 0 c: 0]
>> object? f1
== false
23:52Binding is quite a simple concept, I'm still puzzled why people fail to grasp it.
greggirwin
23:59help mold Help is your friend.

greggirwin
00:01Others may struggle with bind for the same reason you're struggling with a lot of things right now. We're all different.
ne1uno
00:02concept easy, syntax not so much
Moppy_gitlab
00:02if you can bind a word to an object's context, it only makes sense you'd be able to bind a word to a function's context. In fact, https://www.red-by-example.org/#bind says you can. So I tried this
>> f: function [] [a: 1]
>> function? :f
== true

>> storage: []
>> l1: function [] [a: 0 b: 0 c: 0]
>> l2: function [] [a: 1 b: 1 c: 1]
>> l3: function [] [a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]
>> append storage [bind 'a :l3 bind 'b :l2 bind 'c :l1]
>> reduce storage
== [a b c]
>> reduce reduce storage
*** Script Error: context for b is not available
greggirwin
00:07> if you can X, it only makes sense you'd be able to Y

Only in very simplistic scenarios. You'll also learn that the system context is special in some ways. Red aims to be consistent, but not to the exclusion of things making sense in other ways. And sometimes consistency in one way contradicts consistency in another.
00:09You need to learn to explore, piece by piece, so when you hit an error, you can build an understanding of why it occurred. e.g. what is the result of reduce storage?
Moppy_gitlab
00:10This works actually
>> storage: []
>> o1: context [a: 0 b: 0 c: 0]
>> o2: context [a: 1 b: 1 c: 1]
>> o3: context [a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]
>> append storage [bind 'a :o3 bind 'b :o2 bind 'c :o1]
>> reduce reduce storage
== [2 1 0]
00:12"what is the result of reduce storage?" just [a b c] it seems.
00:14So functions's context and object's context, are somehow different.
greggirwin
00:26> just [a b c] it seems

Explore. Explore. I implore you to explore. Right now you're just banging around, and that won't serve your happiness long term.
00:31The best thing we can probably do right now is to take a break from responding. That will force you to do more on your own and think through things.
Moppy_gitlab
00:40Well if I figure it out, I'll make sure to write it down so others don't have to go through the trouble.
01:50Searching through this gitter, somebody else asked something similar before about what "context for x is not available" means.

> @9214 if you can get the context with context? and then get error that context is not available, there's some contradiction, don't you think?

> Neither objects nor functions are contexts by themselves. Objects are thin wrappers over contexts which are allocated on the heap, and function's contexts are mapped on call stack during function call, and disappear once function is evaluated.

> @rebolek I don't see any contradiction, and already explained (twice) how it works. context? gives you a value (object! or a function!) that refers to internal context! value. object!'s context are allocated on the heap and are present during whole lifetime of a script (or until next GC sweep). function!'s contexts come and go to/from call stack together with function calls.

> I think if the error message said something like *context is not **currently** available*, it would make more sense.

> @rebolek not really. To me this implies that it may become *eventually* available sometime in the future, but doesn't clarify when and how. So, if you want a less puzzling error, it should say something like "context for <foo> is available only during function call", but then it's up to a user to figure out which function is in question. Or error message can remain untouched (whatever you say it's fairly accurate), and contexts workings should be covered in documentation.

01:51This was discussed about 3 years ago
01:51I don't know how using ? a bunch of times would explain all that, but it's good to know.
01:52So functions's context and object's context, are somehow different. looks like I was right
02:13
storage3: []
sf: function [] [a: [1] append a 2]

append storage3 [bind 'a :sf]
reduce storage3

a in sf is within sf's context, yet every time sf is called, a changes value. Nonetheless, a's value cannot be accessed through storage3. Maaaaaaybe, a in sf points to somewhere else, where its value is stored, but only during a function call. So sf kind of opens communications during a function call, and after, communications are closed.
greggirwin
03:58> a in sf is within sf's context, yet every time sf is called, a changes value.

Have you read the "Why you have to copy..." wiki page that's been mentioned a few times?
04:14> I don't know how using ? a bunch of times would explain all that

When you jumped out of the plane and started screaming on the way down, we yelled "Use your parachute!" When you got back in the plane, we said "Maybe start with the plane on the ground, to get used to landing and rolling." <takeoff jump screaming> "A jump buddy might be a good option." <takeoff jump screaming>

It pains us to see you suffer so much, and we'd love for you to enjoy the view and feel like you're flying, but don't know what else to suggest.
04:31> How does text meaning different things in different "contexts" create uniquely Red effects?

@Moppy_gitlab I answered your question in red/red. Let me know what you think. Does it help? It's only one of a zillion possibilities of course.
04:32Maybe others will create samples and we can make a wiki page for them.
Moppy_gitlab
06:20> Have you read the "Why you have to copy..." wiki page
Yes. I don't see these two statements can be consolidated though. Inside the function! value, the spec and body blocks are still there, and they are still data. function's contexts are mapped on call stack during function call, and disappear once function is evaluated
06:22How is the data "still there", if the context disappears?
06:35the example in red/red is interesting. I'm not too sure how collect and keep/all work generally.
06:36the examples here are pretty limited. https://www.red-by-example.org/#collect so maybe rebol docs are needed.
greggirwin
06:44> I'm not too sure how collect and keep/all work generally.
> ...so maybe rebol docs are needed.

I'm still at my desk, and I can't seem to help myself from *trying* to help you, so...play...in the console...with *small, easy* bits of code. *Learn* how collect works. It's pretty cool, and very useful. You won't learn if you don't try.
06:55My final plea this evening is to forget that the words context and bind even exist. You're trying to dive deep and you can't even swim.
pekr
07:00guys, do we really like the context?not returning a logic value? I would so much prefer context-ofinstead. Well, but then we've got index?and other functions too ...
greggirwin
07:05Let's not go there @pekr, it's a long dark road we've walked many times. ;^)

https://github.com/red/red/issues/255

You can skip to the last comment from @dockimbel.
pekr
08:31@Moppy_gitlab you can as well use directly append storage reduce [bind 'a :o1]
08:34I was not able to easily bind to the function. I have found two articles, when googling - first one, points out the (big) differences between the R2 and R3: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14818324/what-is-the-summary-of-the-differences-in-binding-behaviour-between-rebol-2-and , the second one is from the rebol guru Ladislav, but most probably it refers to R2 https://github.com/r3n/rebol-wiki/wiki/Bindology
08:37The topic is apparently big. In context of the first article, I just wonder, where between the R2 and R3, Red stands. We've got e.g. selftoo, but it might have a different meaning. We can't extend objects, while R3 can, etc.
Moppy_gitlab
15:35
help keep
No matching values were found in the global context.
15:36
? keep
No matching values were found in the global context.
15:38and help collect doesn't really explain how keep works. Right now, all I know is that if you already have a block with keep inside of it, collect will "keep" those. Not too useful.
15:40I guess keep is only in collect's context. Can help be used for things not in the global context?
15:50
>> ?? collect
collect: func [
    {Collect in a new block all the values passed to KEEP function from the body block}
    body [block!] "Block to evaluate"
    /into {Insert into a buffer instead (returns position after insert)}
    collected [series!] "The buffer series (modified)"
    /local keep rule pos
][
    keep: func [v /only] [either only [append/only collected v] [append collected v] v]
    unless collected [collected: make block! 16]
    parse body rule: [
        any [pos: ['keep | 'collected] (pos/1: bind pos/1 'keep) | any-string! | binary! | into rule | skip]
    ]
    do body
    either into [collected] [head collected]
]

From what I see here, keep has no all refinement. The example in red/red though, uses keep/all.
gurzgri
15:50You can use 
help
in 
collect
's context like so: 
collect [help keep]
. However, the help this gets you is a bit disappointing. At least it points you to the 
/only
refinement 
keep
has, a secret which 
collect
keeps very well (pun intended).
Moppy_gitlab
15:51huh, that example only uses keep/only. Maybe I remembered wrong.
gurzgri
15:53
collect [keep [1] keep/only [2]] ;= [1 [2]]
rebolek
15:55collect [help keep] is a clever trick. I guess that help string should be added to the internal keep function.
Moppy_gitlab
15:55ahhh. I see you can actually put loops in collect.
15:56or rather, use loops as a parameter for collect
rebolek
15:57you can put any code in the collect's body
Moppy_gitlab
16:01
>> a: [1 2 3]
>> collect [foreach numb a [keep numb]]
== [1 2 3]
16:03I didn't know collect actually evaluates the block
16:04I think it'd be helpful to add that point to help collect
rebolek
16:05That's actually standard behavior in Red, blocks are passed to a function that evaluates it. See do, until, foreach, ...
16:06The length of the help string isn't theoretically limited but it's a good practice to keep it short (<80 chars) so there's only so much info that you can fit in.
Moppy_gitlab
16:07copy, extract and sort don't evaluate the block they're given.
16:08As a side note, which functions return a new block, and which modify the block given to them, has been a bit hard to keep track of.
rebolek
16:10True. It would be nice to improve the function specs with some tags like #modifies and #evaluates or something like that so it would be easier to see what you can expect.
gurzgri
16:11Functions modifying the series supplied usually have some sort of a "(modified)" warning in their help string.
hiiamboris
17:10> I didn't know collect actually evaluates the block 

>> ? collect
...
ARGUMENTS:
     body         [block!] "Block to EVALUATE."
...

(emphasis mine)
greggirwin
20:28One of our goals for this year is Red specifications. One of my goals in that area is to push for advances and ties to documentation systems, both reflectively and from tagged data.
cloutiy
20:45Today i thought of creating a pure-function that wraps function and makes a copy of non-scalar arguments. I.e. myfunc: pure-function [a b ] [ ...]
gltewalt
20:49Other fun stuff with funcs (which consist of blocks of words):
l3: function [] [a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]
set 'blk body-of :l3
blk/c: 99

>> :l3
== func [/local a b c][a: 2 b: 2 c: 99]

>> l3
== 99

>> clear spec-of :l3
== []

>> :l3
== func [][a: 2 b: 2 c: 99]

clear blk change blk [dir]

;-- now what does l3 do?
20:50Just playing around is fun
greggirwin
21:04Playing *is* fun. :^) I will ask if we can change from using l3 as a name, because it looks like 13. The other thing I'll note is that advanced coding patterns may trip up the compiler, so if you want to compile your apps (remember encap is your friend here), keep it simple.
Moppy_gitlab
23:26
>> f: function [] [a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]
== func [/local a b c][a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]
>> clear spec-of :f
== []
>> f
== 2

Interesting how function evaluates to a func with the \local refinement. f still works after clearing its spec though.
gltewalt:matrix.org
23:34That particular function returns the last value, 2, so it wouldn't matter.
gurzgri
23:37Clearing the spec of f doesn't rebind f's body to a new function context, so a, b, c are still bound to the original context of f. You can check with keys-of :f ;== [local a b c]. Therefore, even after clearing the spec, f doesn't set a in the global context: 
>> f
== 2
>> a
*** Script Error: a has no value

Moppy_gitlab
02:23
b: 1
f2: func [] [b: 3 print b]
f2
b
== 3

I see.
02:25What's up with this then? 
>> a: 9
== 9
>> f: function [] [a: 2]
== func [/local a][a: 2]
>> clear spec-of :f
== []
>> ?? f
f: func [][a: 2]
>> f
== 2
>> a
== 9
>> f2: func [] [a: 2]
== func [][a: 2]
>> f2
== 2
>> a
== 2
02:26after f's spec is cleared, it's the same as f2, yet its effect on a in the global context isn't the same.
02:29I suppose this is the difference? 
>> keys-of :f
== [local a b c]
>> keys-of :f2
== []

the difference between key and spec is kind of odd
02:34in @gltewalt 's example, l3's spec actually didn't need to be cleared.
02:40This has similar behavior to a function's local words, but the keys-of value returns something different. 
>> con: context [a: 5]
== make object! [
    a: 5
]
>> keys-of con
== [a]
>> a
*** Script Error: a has no value

spec-of returns something very mysterious when used on an object 
>> spec-of con
*** Internal Error: reserved for future use (or not yet implemented)
02:43
>> reflect con 'body
== [
    a: 5
]
>> reflect con 'spec
*** Internal Error: reserved for future use (or not yet implemented)
greggirwin
03:01Not mysterious at all. Did you read the message?
gltewalt:matrix.org
03:05Example of manipulating data, and stuff you might be surprised you can do. Not that spec needed to be cleared
greggirwin
03:06Maybe we need a red/voodoo group.
gltewalt:matrix.org
03:07My guess was that it 'might' have strange effects in subsequent calls, but I didn't know. And by your latest example, is there something afoot, or not?
03:08remember that func and function are different
03:09red/deep
03:17system level a was set again by system level a in func.
Need /local refinement, or use function
03:17your f2 example
Moppy_gitlab
03:23func and function are different, but function seems to be "represented" by func's with /local, judging by the output of writing a function in the repl
ne1uno
03:24older repl too
Moppy_gitlab
03:25and seeing a feature that's, "not implemented yet", maybe? is a new experience for me
03:26will it be implemented?
03:26I don't know
03:29
>> f: function [] [a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]
== func [/local a b c][a: 2 b: 2 c: 2]

if f is still different than a func with a /local refinement, shouldn't that say something different?
ne1uno
03:30function collects /local for you
Moppy_gitlab
03:33
>> f2: func [/local a] [a: 1]
>> a: 9
>> f2
>> a
== 9
>> clear spec-of :f2
>> f2
>> a
== 9

huh
03:35
>> keys-of :f2
== [local a]

now I wonder if there's a way of changing keys since clearing the spec doesn't seem to do anything(at least after the function is executed once?)
03:40
>> clear keys-of :f2
== []
>> f2
== 1
>> a
== 9
>> keys-of :f2
== []
03:42so neither clearing keys nor spec makes a in f2 not local anymore.
gltewalt
04:30
>> f2: func [/local a][a: 1]
== func [/local a][a: 1]

>> a: 9
== 9

>> f2
== 1

>> a
== 9

>> clear spec-of :f2
== []

>> f2: do load mold/only :f2
== func [][a: 1]

>> a
== 9

>> f2
== 1

>> a
== 1
Moppy_gitlab
05:44So you've got to clear f2's spec, then set f2 to the the executed loaded string of itself, then execute f2.
05:48why is load mold/only necessary?
05:49
>> mold/only :f2
== "func [][a: 1]"
>> load mold/only :f2
== [func [] [a: 1]]
>> do load mold/only :f2
== func [][a: 1]
>> a
== 9
>> do :f2
== func [][a: 1]
05:49
>> f2: do :f2
== func [][a: 1]
>> f2
== 1
>> a
== 9
05:52I guess do doesn't "clear" whatever is stuffed inside of f2, so you got to "remake" f2 in a two step process?
bubnenkoff
08:31
letters: charset [#"a" - #"z" #"A" - #"Z"]

Is there any way to more specify letters in all code-pages (cyrillic etc) at once?
Oldes
08:48@Moppy_gitlab mold/load is buggy/unfinished in Red...
in Red:
>> str: mold/all :f2
== "func [/local a][a: 1]"
>> blk: load/all str
== [func [/local a] [a: 1]]
>> type? first blk
== word! ;<--- it is not function loaded.. so you must first reduce/do the blk

while in Rebol:
>> str: mold/all :f2
== "#[function! [[/local a][a: 1]]]"
>> blk: load/all str
== [make function! [[/local a][a: 1]]]
>> type? first blk
== function! ;<--- you already have the function in the blk
08:50@bubnenkoff nothing inbuild... who knows, what are your expected cyrillic chars? You must find [Unicode table](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script_in_Unicode) and use data from it to make your charset.
08:55
cyrillic-letters: charset [#"^(0410)" - #"^(042F)" #"^(0430)" - #"^(044F)"]
parse "Чаи" [some cyrillic-letters] ;<== true
bubnenkoff
09:01@Oldes thanks!
letters: charset [#"a" - #"z" #"A" - #"Z" #"а" - #"я" #"А" - #"Я"]

Also works
Oldes
09:02Of course... if you know your alphabet, you may skip the _search table_ step ;-)
09:06@Moppy_gitlab being able to do clear spec-of :f2 I consider as a security issue, while others think that it is a _feature_.
hiiamboris
09:32Having 'write' function is also then a security issue?
Oldes
09:41It definitely is... without secure dialect at least in the state like it was in Rebol2. But here is not right place for such a talk (and I don't want to have it). I just think, that have modifiable access to function internals is a path to problems instead of something useful.
Moppy_gitlab
16:05Okay. I'm asking all this out of curiosity for one. But also because I'd like to be able to quickly explain and demonstrate what I think are "pain points" for people who would be new to Red. Stuff like order of operations and context are the most important things to clarify first in my opinion, because they're the most likely to trip a person up. Specific key words for features like union, or lesser used data types, can always be looked up later, so are less important.
16:32Nobody is going to assume they have to use clear, so when they inevitably do, it WILL trip them up and that WILL frustrate them. Avoiding that situation in the first place would a be a good thing I think.
hiiamboris
16:34We always point newcomers to that copy wiki page.
Moppy_gitlab
16:40That's a problem in my opinion. An introduction to the language should mention why clear (or copy) is necessary. Being relegated to some buried wiki page is not optimal.
gltewalt:matrix.org
16:47There's no introduction in the official docs.
Moppy_gitlab
16:50Is the wiki the "official docs"?
hiiamboris
16:52http://w.red-lang.org/
Moppy_gitlab
16:54Okay then. Not really related.
gltewalt:matrix.org
16:56http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore-6.html
16:56Section 5.3
hiiamboris
16:56Nobody has written a howto/guide that fits everyone's need yet. http://helpin.red is an okay attempt, Galen's [Python 2 Red](https://github.com/red/red/wiki/A-short-introduction-to-Red-for-Python-programmers) for more narrow audience, https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/red/ IMO needs rework/extension.
R2 manual is still the winner IMO (by far).
rebolek
17:08R2 manual is **The** book.
gltewalt:matrix.org
17:11Too bad we can't get rights permission for official Edited for Red edition
Moppy_gitlab
17:11Maybe I'll try writing one too then, for people with less patience. It's a little concerning that a manual for R2 is pointed to since mold works differently in Red. And people will question if it wouldn't be easier to just use R2 or R3.
hiiamboris
17:13:+1: best of luck
gltewalt:matrix.org
17:16It's 90% compatible, or somewhere in there, so not too concerning.
hiiamboris
17:19Someone was meticulous enough to list the wrongs in R2 manual: https://github.com/red/red/wiki/%5BDOC%5D-REBOL-Core-Users-Guide-__-A-walkthrough-with-Red
gltewalt:matrix.org
17:20Yeah, I did, but hasn't been audited in a long time. May need edits
17:21I could bring it up to date, and finish it. But... if it's not official docs will people still complain?
17:23I can see right away that the money parts are different now
hiiamboris
17:25https://crypticwyrm.neocities.org/learningred/ good attempt at a guide too, although too wordy to my taste
17:34Since playing is learning maybe guide should be an interactive Red program with small realistic tasks after each portion of info :)
Moppy_gitlab
18:05Haskell has something similar on their front page. https://www.haskell.org/
hiiamboris
18:16Yeah, a good one.
Moppy_gitlab
19:51What is the deal with this?
>> f: function [hand] [hand: exclude hand [2]]
== func [hand][hand: exclude hand [2]]
>> f a
== [1 3]
>> a
== [1 2 3]
>> f: function [hand] [append hand 9]
== func [hand][append hand 9]
>> f a
== [1 2 3 9]
>> a
== [1 2 3 9]
19:52I guess setting through a parameter doesn't change was what passed to the parameter
hiiamboris
19:53hand: just makes the local word hand point to a new series
Moppy_gitlab
19:53except this works 
>> a: [0]
== [0]
>> f: function [series] [series/1: series/1 + 1]
== func [series][series/1: series/1 + 1]
>> f a
== 1
>> a
== [1]
gurzgri
19:54There you are modifiying the series, not the word bound to a series.
Moppy_gitlab
19:55
>> a: [1 2 3]
== [1 2 3]
>> f: function [hand] [:hand: exclude hand [2]]
*** Syntax Error: (line 1) invalid word at :hand: exclude hand [2]]
*** Where: set
*** Near : :delimiter-lex
*** Stack: load
19:56not sure what I can do in this situation
19:57literal word?
hiiamboris
19:57indeed, how would you put a *new* series into the one pointed to by hand?
gurzgri
19:59
>> f: function [hand] [head clear insert hand exclude hand [2]]
== func [hand][head clear insert hand exclude hand [2]]
>> a: [1 2 3]
== [1 2 3]
>> f a
== [1 3]
>> a
== [1 3]
19:59If modifiying hand is applicable, that is.
Moppy_gitlab
20:03what does head clear do?
greggirwin
20:04Help!
hiiamboris
20:04indeed :)
gurzgri
20:05I'm inserting exclude hand [2], which returns the series after ther insertion. From there to tail I'm clearing the series and returning it at it's head.
Moppy_gitlab
20:05okay, so it's because insert positions the series after the insert
20:06and insert puts new values at the beginning
gurzgri
20:13But what if the series bound to hand itself isn't positioned at it's head? Then above f gives wrong result, a better solution would be:
>> a: next [0 1 2 3 4] ;== [1 2 3 4]
>> f: function [hand] [clear insert hand exclude hand [2]  hand] ()
>> f a  ;== [1 3 4]
>> a ;== [1 3 4]
>> head a; == [0 1 3 4]

This leaves the series position intact.
Moppy_gitlab
20:15Rewrote my Red go fish program. It seems to work now.
20:15https://github.com/Dry-Leaf/Go-Fish-in-Red/blob/main/gofish.red
greggirwin
20:17Help! And *play*. In the console, define a block, and see how each series action it supports work. Use help action! for a list of all actions (not just series related). Take functions out of the equation entirely. Learn how words work. How does each form behave, why does get-word! even exist?

Then feel free to write scripts that let you perform actions and see their results. What happens if a series isn't at it's head when you do action X? How do you find where you are in a series?

I think if you do this, you'll enjoy Red more, and save us all a lot of time. Because then you'll start asking more interesting questions. ;^)
Moppy_gitlab
20:19Am I abusing functions, or doing things unidiomatically?
greggirwin
20:21I'm just talking about basic understanding. As I've said before, you're trying to run before you can walk. That's OK if you realize that it's not going well, and maybe you need to learn walking first. Do that.
gltewalt:matrix.org
20:23He wants you to explore actions on series! values (block, string, etc) in the Red console. And to get familiar with help in the Red console.
Moppy_gitlab
20:24Is writing command line programs with basic user interactivity considered running?
20:25realized I can make setup a block and then do it
greggirwin
20:30@Moppy_gitlab The app goal itself is fine. But then you went off into reflective func spec handling, and asking simple questions that you can easily answer yourself (learning much more in the process) by using help. For everyone's long term benefit, we will help new people started, but very quickly encourage them to become more self-sufficient. If you get into the habit of asking for answers every time, rather than trying to *find* them yourself, you'll get less and less answers over time. Help us to help you, by making the best use of our time.
hiiamboris
20:37I would add that this ask -> try -> think pattern looks like a parenting issue to me. If you immediately give your child all the answers and do not encourage it to play or give time to come with own answers, eventually this way of learning prevails over the others and becomes a life habit. One that is not particularly useful anymore, but gets repeated automatically. A huge share of our behavior is defined this way unless we consciously reprogram ourselves.
Moppy_gitlab
20:37Less parents than google.
hiiamboris
20:39Well, google facilitates this to an extent but by the time we learn to google usually our habits are in place already.
greggirwin
20:43When we build our help line chat system, we'll make that a feature. After you ask a question, a period of time or tracked "tries" have to pass before you can ask another. :^)
gurzgri
20:46Seeing how you immediately copy'n'pasted the above head clear insert hand exclude hand record code golf line into your script is neither walking nor running, its just rushing. In the context of your script head is totally superfluous, because you're not using the position it returns anywhere.
Moppy_gitlab
20:55Alright
if counter = 4 [
			rem_cards: exclude hand record
			clear insert hand rem_cards

20:57In your second to last example, head didn't do anything either.
20:58
>> a: [1 2 3]
>> f: function [hand] [clear insert hand exclude hand [2]]
>> f a
== []
>> a
== [1 3]

I'm sure this difference is important in some contexts, but not when you just want to change a
22:10what? The function return an empty block, but I don't care about that in my context. clear is so this doesn't happen
>> f a
== [1 2 3]
>> a
== [1 3 1 2 3]
Oldes
22:10Sorry... I was wrong. I had too many beers today.. better be silent ;-)
22:18Result of exclude hand [2] is [1 3], which you insert to the hand, so you get [1 3 1 2 3], but insert returns result at tail, so you clear the [1 2 3] part and see empty block.. but at tail... and a is [1 3]
22:19
>> f: function [hand] [probe head probe clear probe insert probe hand probe exclude hand [2]]
>> f a: [1 2 3]                                                                               
[1 2 3]
[1 3]
[1 2 3]
[]
[1 3]
== [1 3]
hiiamboris
22:21
>> trace/all/deep [f a]
    a                               => [1 2 3]                              
      hand                          => [1 2 3]                              
      hand                          => [1 2 3]                              
      exclude hand [2]              => [1 3]                                
      insert hand [1 3]             => [1 2 3]                              
      clear []                      => []                                   
      head []                       => [1 3]                                
    f a                             => [1 3]                                
== [1 3]
22:22fixed, thanks
22:23looks like a glitch on clear []
greggirwin
22:24@hiiamboris :+1:
22:24This is your updated trace, right, not merged yet?
hiiamboris
22:25no, it's the one in the master
greggirwin
22:25Ah, my mistake. Thanks.
hiiamboris
22:25glitch on clear happens because that series is not in the original block, so it is not copied
22:25no idea how to solve it with reasonable amount of effort
greggirwin
22:26I had pasted a different f from here, so got extra output.
Oldes
22:26@Moppy_gitlab one good thing to know:
>> a: [1 2] insert a 0
== [1 2]
>> a
== [0 1 2]
>> a: [1 2] append a 0 
== [1 2 0]
>> a
== [1 2 0]

BuilderGuy1
20:47I need some help with drop-down lists. The list of items I want to display is in a predefined block.
The problem is that it displays nothing if the block is defined before VIEW and an error if the block is inside of VIEW.
Surely there is something simple I'm leaving out.
endo64
20:53Can you share your code?
This one works for me: b: ["one" "two" "three"] view [drop-down 250 data b]
BuilderGuy1
21:04Red [ title: "Multiple View test" needs: 'view ] Vit_Min: [A B C D E K Iron Magnesium] Vit_Min_Units: [gram mg] view [ Button 60x18 "Quit" [quit] return p: panel white [ size 300x300 Text "Stuff Test" return drop-down 120 data Vit_Min drop-down 100 data Vit_Min_Units ] ]
hiiamboris
21:06should be strings
greggirwin
21:06@BuilderGuy1 you need triple backticks for multiline code.
21:07https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/view.adoc#drop-down
BuilderGuy1
21:07Ah! Thanks @hiiamboris and @greggirwin :-)
21:07I knew I was missing something really simple
greggirwin
21:08Happens to all of us. :^)
21:08In the docs you'll see the reason, and the extra power it allows.
gurzgri
22:46@Moppy_gitlab Above you asked if you're
> abusing functions, or doing things unidiomatically?

I'm not going to do a code review here, but it has to be said that by the overall looks of it it really doesn't read the "Red" way. Some bits do, yes, but many others do not, e.g. the excessive use of /extern isn't something you'd see promoted very often.

For the fun of it I did my own take on "Go fish" at 
do https://gist.githubusercontent.com/gurzgri/f09b8b78e96cd1d876d38ae7a64b8c96/raw/bd02e1c20562cd96315527ec49cd57f6f93ee790/gofish.red


not to show off, but to give you something to compare your version with. I'm far from saying that my approach is "better" or is the most "reddish" and idiomatic one one can come up with — others here would be able to come up with way more elegant solutions.

But compare, disassemble and dissect my take on this with your version to see how thinking a bit about a proper layout of the data you have to deal with can help for example in leveraging the power of Red's block manipulation functions, can lend to way shorter code and to less ifs and eithers. And see how common Red naming conventions (think: verb, verb-noun, noun) and maybe some comments here and there may improve the overall readability of code. Hope this helps!
greggirwin
22:48Thanks for that @gurzgri. :+1:

gltewalt
01:00I had done a version also.
https://github.com/gltewalt/go-fish
01:02(may contain mistakes, and / or bugs)
01:46Just fixed one :-D
gltewalt:matrix.org
02:12Lots of ways to do it. For perfectly idiomatic examples... Best bet might be @rebolek
BuilderGuy1
18:49Another easy question: I'm trying to use abutton to get the data selected in a drop-down and add it to a text-list.
18:49
Red [
	title: "Drop-down test"
	needs: 'view
]
Vit_Min: ["A" "B" "C" "D" "E" "K" "Iron" "Magnesium"]

view [
	Button 60x18 "Quit" [quit] return
	V_M: drop-down 120 data Vit_Min
	
	button 60x30 green "Add" [V_M_List/data: pick V_M/data V_M/selected]
	return
	V_M_List: text-list 140x140 data ["hi" "there"]
]
hiiamboris
18:58text-list data is supposed to be a block
BuilderGuy1
19:01I believe I have it in a block. What would I need to change?
hiiamboris
19:08insert probe before pick
BuilderGuy1
19:15Hmmm. That did not add anything to the Text-List. This is what was printed to the terminal (MacOS RED build Nov13th) when I selected an item from the drop down then pressed the button twice:
19:15
none
none

*** Runtime Error 1: access violation
*** at: 00036F49h
19:16Perhaps I need to get a newer build
hiiamboris
19:19see? not a block
19:19crash is interesting though
BuilderGuy1
19:24Today's build now compiled. As for that block...
19:25I look at the text-list I see ["hi" "there"] and say "There's my block". Clearly this is not what your refering to though
19:35no crash with new build at least :-)
hiiamboris
gurzgri
19:59@BuilderGuy1 text-list V_M_List's data is a block, yes, but its a block not for long: replace the
[ V_M_List/data: pick V_M/data V_M/selected]

actor with 
[?? V_M_List/data   V_M_List/data: pick V_M/data V_M/selected   ?? V_M_List/data]

You see now?
Moppy_gitlab
20:05@gurzgri thanks for writing that. One thing I'd like to mention is that my code with influenced by the requirements listed here https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Playing_cards , and I wanted to reuse what I wrote for that. This is definitely an elegant way of making a full deck of cards though
20:06
pool:     collect [foreach rank ranks [foreach suit suits [keep/only rejoin [rank suit]]]]
BuilderGuy1
20:08@gurzgri Yes that illustrates it well thanks! So I would need to convert the data that comes out of PICK into a block
20:14why does "pick V_M/data V_M/selected" get "none"?
20:15I added "insert tail" in front of "V_M_List/data: " but it has nothing to add.
gurzgri
20:16probe or ?? your V_M/data and V_M/selected. Then help pick in the console. You'll find out what's going on.
BuilderGuy1
20:16will do
gurzgri
20:26@Moppy_gitlab Trying to reuse (mimic) what you wrote in other languages is the no. 1 "mistake" with the Redbol languages. Often the key is unlearning things and doing them the Redbol way ... :D
BuilderGuy1
20:47Here's what it looks like to me: "V_M/data" is the entire Vit_Min list and "V_M/selected" is returning the pair "1x1" regardless of what is being selected. It appears that PICK doesn't like PAIRs for it's index. I tried converting the pair (to integer!) but I can't find anything that will convert it without errors. I'm out of ideas.
hiiamboris
20:49/1 /2?
20:50we have docs btw: https://w.red-lang.org/en/datatypes/pair
BuilderGuy1
20:50Like this? V_M/selected/1
20:50I have so many pages of docs open it's getting stupid....
20:51but I will read that page!
hiiamboris
20:52first learning steps are hard :)
20:53I wonder where you get a pair though in your code...
BuilderGuy1
20:53I'm getting there! I'm going through the REBOL/Core book right now. Most of the other docs are reference which makes it really hard to understand how to put thing together. They also only have trivial examples
20:54"probe V_M/select" gives "1x1". Seams really weird to me that a drop-down would output a pair as it's index.
20:55I would expect an integer, but that's just me
hiiamboris
20:55to me too, and I can't reproduce it
BuilderGuy1
20:55I'm using the Mac version, todays build
hiiamboris
BuilderGuy1
20:57I will try this later on a windows version (in coffee shop with laptop :-)
hiiamboris
20:57if that's the case, do you still get pairs output in this example?
view [drop-down data ["aa" "bb"] select 1 rate 2 on-time [probe face/selected]]
BuilderGuy1
20:58As soon as it ran I got repeating "1" then choose "bb" from list and got repeating "1x2"
hiiamboris
20:59thanks, I'll handle it from here
BuilderGuy1
20:59I also get some other crap...
/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.200.3/Common/ChunkCompression.cpp:49: Error: unsupported compressor 8
/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/AppleFSCompression/AppleFSCompression-96.200.3/Libraries/CompressData/CompressData.c:353: Error: Unknown compression scheme encountered for file '/System/Library/LinguisticData/Latn/Dict2.dat'
1x2
1x2
1x2

hiiamboris
21:00what's your macos version?
BuilderGuy1
21:0110.14.6 I kept my laptop at this version specifically so I could continue using RED (32-bit support)
hiiamboris
21:01:+1:
BuilderGuy1
21:02I'll sign off then and try this in Windows RED a bit later
Moppy_gitlab
21:04@gurzgri from what I gather, doing things idiomatically involves editing data within contexts besides the global one, reusing data, and doing a lot of collecting. I really like how reverse is used.
hiiamboris
21:12@BuilderGuy1 I reported your finding https://github.com/red/red/issues/5064
gurzgri
21:20Contexts/objects and blocks etc. used with path access as in game/:player/hand just make things so much more accessible than having each and every "thing" in it's own word (i.e. "variable"), help in tidying things up and allow for way easier debugging. In my script, I can easily probe game where ever I want and see the whole application state. collect isn't idiomatic per se, it's just that I love it so much. Many things you can collect you can gain by remove-each their complement:
remove-each card copy hand [not same? rank rank-of card]

collect [foreach card hand [same? rank rank-of card]]

That's a matter of taste, choose your favourite way. But with collect, you can e.g. wrap it on a high level around other code blocks and in there keep whatever you need. Think of creating logs that way for example.
greggirwin
21:50> doing things idiomatically involves editing data within contexts besides the global one, reusing data, and doing a lot of collecting.

@Moppy_gitlab I will say No to that analysis. There's a lot that goes into the Zen of Red, and everyone develops their own style. Idiomatic for you may not be for me. But it can help to think about how to most clearly express your intent, and always keep in mind that it's model of data-centric thinking is something unique that Red offers. In that vein, while maps and objects are data, really learn to use and understand blocks. Blocks and words are the foundation.

Consider, too, where other langs have 6-8 base datatypes. Red has a *lot* (help datatype!). So if you find yourself using strings, and then to for converting to email, url, file, etc. that's *un*idiomatic. Leverage datatypes.
gltewalt
21:52If I had to guess the ultimate Redbol way... it would be DSLs.
Sell 100 shares of "Acme" at $47.97 per share
21:53From: http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore-4.html
greggirwin
21:54Yes, and that comes a bit from Forth's idea of "first write the language you want to write your program in, by building up a vocabulary for it." Not everything has to be dialected of course. You can gain a lot of leverage this way just with naming and structure.
gltewalt
21:59A lot of overhead for for a single text based card game. But... a dialect for all text based card games... and it starts to become interesting
greggirwin
22:02Agreed.
Moppy_gitlab
22:35From what I have seen of Forth, I am glad Red isn't TOO like it.
# recursive fibonacci function in Python

def fib(n):
    if n < 3:
        return 1
    return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2)

\ the Forth version
: fib dup 3 < if drop 1 else 1- dup recurse swap 1- recurse + then ;

and then there's PostScript......
/fib { dup 3 lt { pop 1 } { 1 sub dup fib exch 1 sub fib add } ifelse } def
greggirwin

bubnenkoff
10:17Are there any plans for the next 2-3 years to release a new dialect to replace the VID? I'm completely happy with it, but I want to make sure that in a few years I won't have to rewrite anything
10:21I am asking because I have seen news: "...Toomas stepped up and suggested an alternative, refinement-based, interface"
hiiamboris
10:22That comment was about split. I am 99% certain VID2 won't come out in the next 2-3 years.
rebolek
10:28Even if there would be VID2 it’s not going to be totally different.
planetsizecpu
12:19> I am 99% certain VID2 won't come out in the next 2-3 years.

I hope god hears you 😬

hiiamboris
12:38I hope so too ;) There are more urgent tasks.
pekr
14:02@hiiamboris in your reference - is VID2 your Spaces project? :-)
hiiamboris
14:56No, unlikely :)
14:58Spaces just carve out a piece inside VID. With own specifics. If there will be VID2 however I hope it will learn from all experiments I did in Spaces.
Moppy_gitlab
16:18
>> b: [[none 0]]
>> a: [1 0 3 4]
>> reduce [a/-1 a/2]
== [none 0]
>> b/1
== [none 0]
>> b/1 = reduce [a/-1 a/2]
== false

Is there something obvious I'm missing?
ne1uno
16:40 type? b/1/1
16:43type? first reduce [a/-1 a/2]
16:46b: [[#[none] 0]]
Moppy_gitlab
16:47Thanks...
>> help #
*** Syntax Error: (line 1) invalid issue at #
*** Where: set
*** Near : :delimiter-lex
*** Stack: load
16:48
>> ? #[none]
none is a none! value.

>> ? none
NONE is a none! value: none
hiiamboris
16:48https://w.red-lang.org/en/datatypes/none/#literal-syntax
16:49
>> mold/all none
== "#[none]"
Moppy_gitlab
16:58Wrote this, output matches Scheme's
16:58https://rosettacode.org/wiki/One-dimensional_cellular_automata#Red
ne1uno
16:58also in your example, (reduce b/1) = reduce [a/-1 a/2]
greggirwin
18:25@Moppy_gitlab thanks for contributing that solution on RC!
Moppy_gitlab
18:41Realized petri: head clear..... isn't necessary. Insert "returns" a modified series after the inserted material, but that doesn't actually change where a series' word points to.
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:46So with that, only if it's a live cell it prints 1 or # ?
Moppy_gitlab
18:48@gltewalt:matrix.org yes. _ and # are harder to work with. Maybe there's some parsing scheme or something that could convert 0 and 1 automatically
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:48How many events are supposed to be in the "array"?
18:49Elements
18:49Not events
Moppy_gitlab
18:49@gltewalt:matrix.org arbitrary
18:49doesn't matter
18:50I just treat none as a 0, which doesn't break any rules
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:51Looks like if a neighbor group adds up to 2, there's life, otherwise no life.
Moppy_gitlab
18:521 1 1 kills the one in the middle
18:531 0 1 bring the one in the middle to life
gltewalt:matrix.org
Moppy_gitlab
18:53so selectseemed like the best option
19:58In a switch statement, what the best way of having multiple values that cause the same thing? This doesn't work for some reason. 
a: 4
switch a [
    first find [0 2 3 4] a [print a]
    10 [print "10"]]
hiiamboris
19:59you want case maybe
19:59switch does not evaluate it's block
Moppy_gitlab
19:59probably. I'll use that then
greggirwin
20:05Switch works fine for that.
a: 4
switch a [
    0 2 3 4 [print a]
    10 [print "10"]
]
20:07Where it *doesn't* work is when the value you're checking against is itself a block.
Moppy_gitlab
21:43Wrote a Red version of this. Output is same as Scheme's again.
21:43https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life#Red
hiiamboris
21:48https://github.com/red/community/blob/master/games/gameoflife2.red
Moppy_gitlab
21:50I don't know if using it is good practice, but try is very convenient.
greggirwin
21:57Thanks @Moppy_gitlab. Please add yourself as the author for these in the header. We think that will be a good thing for all of us to do, so we know who wrote something, and they get credit.
Moppy_gitlab
21:59Added it. I'd credit anyone else, but I don't mind much when it comes to myself.
greggirwin
22:02Yeah, we are often like this. This is mainly so when it comes time to edit or update things we have an audit trail, and don't step on toes.

ne1uno
09:21Script Error: to-interger has no value
dsunanda
09:25to-integer -- just one "r" .....I n some English accents its often pronouned as if there was a second "r", so that's a common misspelling of the word -- https://gonaturalenglish.com/intrusive-r-sounds-like/
chunes3
09:44Hey all, quick question. Does Red have an integer division function or operator? Or is to-integer 10 / 3 the idiomatic way to do it?
bubnenkoff
12:35Remember me please how to create copy of object and returng it without modifying original
obj: object [
	test: none
]

foo: func[] [
	obj: copy/deep obj
	obj/test: true ; it's modify original
	
	probe obj
]

foo
rebolek
12:36new-obj: make obj []
hiiamboris
12:36you're modifying the word, not object
12:36:turtle:
rebolek
bubnenkoff
12:39oh thanks!
13:04so the name should be always uniq to prevent overwriting of original?
rebolek
13:06you’re not "overwriting" anything
13:06you’re just changing what the word is pointing to
13:07
>> a: b: context [c: 1]
== make object! [
    c: 1
]
>> a: make a [c: 2]
== make object! [
    c: 2
]
>> a
== make object! [
    c: 2
]
>> b
== make object! [
    c: 1
]
bubnenkoff
13:08
obj: object [
	test: none
	say: func[] [print ["hello:" test]]
]

foo: func[] [
	obj: make obj [] ; it's new instance of obj or original obj?
	obj/test: true
	obj/say
	
	return obj
]

foo
rebolek
13:09make obj [] returns new instance and you’re assigning that instance to the word obj
bubnenkoff
13:10but this word is already is using, yes?
hiiamboris
13:16
>> x: 1
== 1
>> f: func [][x: 2] 
== func [][x: 2]
>> f
== 2
>> x
== 2
13:16what surprises you here? ;)
bubnenkoff
13:16Here nothing, the problem is only with understanding objects)
hiiamboris
13:18but your code works exactly like this above
bubnenkoff
13:20m... so If I want to return new instance I should always do like Boleslav show?
new-obj: make obj [] ; where obj is already created object with methods and fields
13:21If yes, is there any red-style for naming of new objects? just add new- to name it's good?
hiiamboris
13:22naming of objects is no different than naming of anything else
pekr
13:24Yes, Redbol langs don't have classes. So we use a prototype based objects. You can use existing object as a prototype and add new fields in one go:

>> obj1: make object! [a: 1]
== make object! [
    a: 1
]
>> obj2: make obj1 [b: 2]
== make object! [
    a: 1
    b: 2
]
13:24Not sure I remember it correctly (never tried that), there was an idea to use multiple existing objects, to create a new one.
hiiamboris
13:26make object [..] object [..]
pekr
13:45I don't remember already, why Red decided to not allow to extend an existing object. It was many times a requested feature during the R2 days, so R3 added that. Maybe because we've got maps? I don't know ....
rebolek
13:46@bubnenkoff 
obj: make object! [a: 1]
obj: make obj []

is no different than
obj: make object! [a: 1]
obj: "now `obj` points to a string!"
bubnenkoff
14:28But when we are creating new object old binds with maps and blocks still staying? I talk about should I declare all in object with copy\copy/deep to prevent use old links in new objects?
hiiamboris
14:33you should check yourself but copy/deep should copy blocks, maybe objects or maps too
bubnenkoff
14:37So it's normal behaviors that new objects continue link to original block words (blocks and maps) ?
hiiamboris
14:38if you didn't copy them then yes
bubnenkoff
14:52Do not understand why it's changing original object:
obj: object [
	test: copy/deep #(a: none)
	say: func[] [print ["hello:" test]]
]


foo: function[] [
	nobj: make obj [] 
	nobj/test/a: true
	nobj/say
	
	return nobj
]

foo
obj/test ; is true, but I am expecting none
ingvast
15:23Rebol got the function info? to get type, date and size of a file. What can I use in red?
ne1uno
15:34 print [query f: %some-file size? f ]
bubnenkoff
15:54@hiiamboris It should be possible to just use copy to create new object. But result is same. I can't understand why original object is modify:
obj: object [
	test: #(a: none)
	say: func[] [print ["hello:" test]]
]
bar: 123

foo: function[] [
	nobj: copy obj ; creating new object
	nobj/test/a: true
	nobj/say
	
	return nobj
]

foo
obj/test

ingvast
16:03@ne1uno Thanks, that should do it. I can use dir? to know if it is a directory or file.
ne1uno
16:07I think dir just checks for no extension? soon I/O branch should have more complete info
bubnenkoff
16:07docs: "Another way to create an object is to use the copy action which does not require a specification block, so does just a simple cloning of the object. Existing functions will be re-bound to the new object."
ne1uno
16:10@bubnenkoff, you're throwing away any work done in foo?
bubnenkoff
16:11yes, I am trying to return from foo modified object, but do not touch original
ldci
16:25@bubnenkoff , use test: #(a none) and not `test: #(a: none)’ in your object definition. Original object remains unmodified.
bubnenkoff
16:29@ldci explain logic please. You map syntax is wrong: test: #(a none). Should be: test: #(a: none)
ldci
16:30@bubnenkoff : wait for a moment. Testing and probably I »m wrong :)
16:38@bubnenkoff , Forget this message for the map initialization.
hiiamboris
16:38@bubnenkoff tried nobj: copy/deep obj?
bubnenkoff
16:41yes I tried this all
ingvast
16:47I need to call ssh from red. On my machine it is located in c:/Windows/System32/OpenSSH. But I cannot reach that from red. However from cmd:
C:\Users\i>dir c:\Windows\System32\OpenSSH\
 Volume in drive C is Windows
 Volume Serial Number is 260A-94B5

 Directory of c:\Windows\System32\OpenSSH

2021-05-13  22:06    <DIR>          .
2021-05-13  22:06    <DIR>          ..
2021-05-13  20:39           307 712 scp.exe
2021-05-13  20:39           374 272 sftp.exe
2021-05-13  20:39           481 280 ssh-add.exe
2021-05-13  20:39           382 976 ssh-agent.exe
2021-05-13  20:39           662 016 ssh-keygen.exe
2021-05-13  20:39           557 568 ssh-keyscan.exe
2021-05-13  20:39           946 176 ssh.exe
               7 File(s)      3 712 000 bytes
               2 Dir(s)  115 633 356 800 bytes free

While reading directory from red:
>> read %/c/Windows/System32/OpenSSH/
*** Access Error: cannot open: %/c/Windows/System32/OpenSSH/
*** Where: read
*** Near : %/c/Windows/System32/OpenSSH/
*** Stack:

Nor can I find OpenSSH directory by reading %/c/Windows/Sytstem32/. Are there some permissions I do not have right?
gurzgri
16:49I think you need to do copy/clone deep maps or objects by yourself: 
a: object [a: none] a/a: a
b: copy/deep a
same? b/a b ;== false
same? b/a a ;== true

Same with maps I guess.
hiiamboris
16:51@bubnenkoff I recommend this approach then:
>> o1: object spec: [m: make map! [a: 1]]
>> o2: object spec
>> o1/m =? o2/m
== false
16:54@ingvast you run cmd as admin maybe?
gltewalt:matrix.org
16:58It does allow extend
pekr
17:06
>> extend obj [b: 2]
*** Internal Error: reserved for future use (or not yet implemented)
*** Where: extend
*** Near : [b: 2]
*** Stack:

Good thing it is planned though ....
gltewalt:matrix.org
17:08With make @pekr
pekr
17:09Doesn't make recreate and object somehow from scratch? Can't envision internals myself ....
gltewalt:matrix.org
17:12Well, the blog says "possible to extend it"
17:12
a: object [value: 123] 

c: make a [ increment: does [value: value + 1] ]
17:16Oh, it extends a cooy I think
17:16Copy
bubnenkoff
18:15thanks! But maybe it's a bug, because I think that my code should be valid. At last it's very logical to do as I am doing
ldci
18:19@bubnenkoff Clearly related to map datatype, but I don’t understand why.
hiiamboris
18:24@bubnenkoff no it's not a bug, but copy/deep part I do consider a (known) bug
ingvast
18:45@hiiamboris No, normal user.
Calling dir from red: call/output/error "dir c:/Windows/System" o: "" e: "" print o I find the strange
2021-11-02  09:23         1ÿ212ÿ544 OpenCL.dll
2019-12-07  10:09            60ÿ416 openfiles.exe
2021-07-08  23:35           922ÿ112 opengl32.dll
2021-05-05  02:33           107ÿ368 OpenWith.exe
2019-12-07  10:09            44ÿ032 OposHost.exe
2020-04-20  21:55           732ÿ0
...
019-12-07  10:09            32ÿ768 winml.dll
2020-10-14  04:20           149ÿ272 winmm.dll

Note the three dots "..." which are real.
When listing from cmd, OpenSSH goes between opengl32 and openWith:
2021-07-08  23:35         1 062 400 opengl32.dll
2021-05-13  22:06    <DIR>          OpenSSH
2021-05-05  02:32           123 984 OpenWith.exe

In cmd instead of "...." there are hundreds of files.
hiiamboris
18:50
>> call/output/error "dir c:/Windows/System32" o: "" e: "" print o

>> call/output/error "dir c:\Windows\System32" o: "" e: "" print o
 Volume in drive C is OS
(dump of all the files, no dots)
18:51your Red and OS versions?
18:52Oh wait I found dots!
18:53
15-Jan-21  02:01           143,360 playtomenu.dl
...
8 WinTypes.dll
07-Dec-19  12:09            22,528 winusb.dll
ingvast
18:53On another check, it seem like print replaces a number of lines with ...
It just happened to be close to where my problem is :(
Win10
I built it a week ago. git
a154bbc3f at the master branch
hiiamboris
18:54Yeah that's what I thought too. Looks like gui-console's print was "fixed" from huge output.
ingvast
18:55But can that be related to I cannot see the OpenSSH directory
hiiamboris
18:55No this should be something else.
18:55Wait.
18:55There's more.
18:56I saved the o output and there's no OpenSSH in the listing! (and no dots)
18:58I'd say about 30% of the listing is missing.
19:01OK I know what's happening. I've seen it already with regedit (someone reported)
19:03When you run cmd from Red (happens implicitly with dir command), W10 for some reason runs %systemroot%\syswow64\cmd.exe which runs in some sort of compatibility mode or something. When I call dir %systemroot%\system32 from that cmd.exe it actually displays me contents of syswow64 (and it's 30% smaller).
ingvast
19:05Interesting. So it is some sort of 32/64 bit issue? Or something that directories in Windows is not always what you think?
hiiamboris
19:05Yeah. Directories and registry paths. Weird stuff.
greggirwin
19:06Wow. Let's make sure this gets into the wiki. Nice research @hiiamboris.
hiiamboris
19:07In that case I need to google why this happens..
greggirwin
19:08Maybe @ingvast can do that, since it will give him more info and chances at success. :^)
hiiamboris
19:09Would be awesome :)
ingvast
19:09I'll pick it up. But not sure yet how to handle it. It seem that I have to run %systemroot%\syswow64\cmd.exe can that be called from the normall call?
hiiamboris
19:10No, it outsmarts you. Google may help :)
greggirwin
19:11@ingvast thanks. If you can do some leg work and post results, we'll help debug on the Red side.
hiiamboris
19:11
>> call/output "c:\windows\system32\cmd.exe /c dir c:\Windows\System32" o1: ""
>> call/output "c:\windows\syswow64\cmd.exe /c dir c:\Windows\System32" o2: ""
>> length? o1
== 147328
>> length? o2
== 147328

Both calls are actually syswow64 ones per the result
ingvast
19:15I copy and get the error:
19:15
call/output "c:\windows\syswow64\cmd.exe /c dir c:\Windows\System32" o2: ""
*** Access Error: invalid UTF-8 encoding: #{FF313531}
*** Where: call
*** Stack:
greggirwin
19:16Works here for me @ingvast. What OS and what Red build (use about in the console)?
hiiamboris
19:16No, this is because we're using en-US locales both here.
greggirwin
19:17Ah. :^\
hiiamboris
19:17dir gives output in OEM codepage, so can't be loaded like this.
greggirwin
19:18It just keeps getting better.
ingvast
19:18But dir worked without he syswow64\cmd
hiiamboris
19:19Hmm maybe cmd does some weird conversion..
greggirwin
19:19You can use o2: #{} as the target, but then need a code page decoder. Either @rebolek or @Oldes have those.
hiiamboris
19:19I can't help here :) MS tools are a mess.
pekr
19:19I know it's not related, but could please dir / ls use e.g. 3 columns? I can see half of the output dotted ....
greggirwin
19:20Hack on list-dir and propose a new version, or we can put it in red/community.
pekr
19:20I say - no :-)
greggirwin
19:21I do agree that less (columns) is more in this case.
pekr
19:21Recent behaviour uses too think columns, while it tries to calculate some size (might experiment a bit myself, yes), but default output is not useful
19:22I will have to try to adapt scaling, I am at 125%.
greggirwin
19:22list-dir/col () 3
hiiamboris
19:22some formula glitch indeed
greggirwin
19:22And you're all set @pekr.
hiiamboris
19:23I know what happens. It was written for CLI (tab size = 8), but in GUI tab size = 4.
pekr
19:24My output takes 60% of the X size of the console and 80% of the output is dotted. Gregg, that's not how to go forward with a user experience, really.
hiiamboris
19:26hmm no, even in CLI it's not full sized
ingvast
19:26I still do not know if my lost OpenSSH directory can be explained by this. I can not find it by find o2 to-binary "OpenSSH"
pekr
19:26Super, I thought there might be some problem, seeing the code calculates sizes. Thought my display scaling is a culprit.

hiiamboris
19:26@ingvast because there's no access to system32 , only to wow64
pekr
19:27OK, I will play with that, it is a mezzanine after all ....
ingvast
19:31@hiiamboris There is no OpenSSH in c:/windows/syswow64. and
call/output "c:\windows\syswow64\cmd.exe /c dir c:\Windows\System32" o2: "" does not seem to output OpenSSH (at least I cannot find it)
hiiamboris
19:32Yes, that's why you don't find it with read too.
19:33Emulation.
ingvast
19:36Ok, thanks @hiiamboris for all the work you put into this. I have to think over how to document and how to work around this (need to call ssh). I'll get back hopefully tomorrow.
hiiamboris
19:37https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WoW64#Registry_and_file_system
19:38There must be a way to circumvent it though :)
19:38Good luck @ingvast
ne1uno
22:12"c:/Windows/sysnative/where.exe openssl*" maybe
22:12"c:/Windows/sysnative/where.exe openssh*"
greggirwin
22:43What is sysnative? And your slashes are backwards. ;^)
ne1uno
22:51don't need full path, call/shell/output/error "where curl" out: "" err: "" print [out err]

ne1uno
00:35someone couldn't run osk.exe on win7 because of syswow64 redirect. it's buried a little deeper on win10 with only one link. takes a minute.
00:35call/shell/output/error {where /R "%windir%" osk.exe } out: "" err: "" print [copy/part out 1560 err]
gltewalt:matrix.org
01:25Move to Linux Mint.
bubnenkoff
07:27@hiiamboris I am continue trying, and still getting same result -- original modified. Do you sure that it's not a bug in copy?
number: object [
    type: copy/deep #(
            selected?: none
            name: none
    )
]

new-number: copy number

new-number/type/selected?: true

print ["number:" number/type/selected?]
print ["new-number" new-number/type/selected?]


ldci
07:39@bubnenkoff. As mentionned the problem is related to map datatype.
obj1: object [
    test: none
    say:  func[] [print ["hello:" test]]
]

foo: function[] [
    nobj: make obj1 [test: true]; creating new object
    nobj/say
    return nobj
]

f: foo
print ["old =" obj1/test] 	;--unchanged
print ["new =" f/test]		;--changed

07:41This sample does not modify the first object.
bubnenkoff
07:44Could you explain "problem is related to map datatype" why it's happens?
ldci
08:30@bubnenkoff I do not know why but when test is a map test: #(a: none)orginal value is changed.
hiiamboris
09:31@bubnenkoff I provided you a working method above
bubnenkoff
10:01@hiiamboris @ldci thanks!
ldci
10:06@bubnenkoff You’re welcome
ingvast
12:49I've documented my issues with calling ssh and other 32 bit programs in https://github.com/red/red/wiki/%5BDOC%5D-Reference-Call#3264-bit-issues
12:50Thanks @ne1uno for help pointing out sysnative.
hiiamboris
13:04:+1:
13:04M$ just couldn't solve it with simple symlink, instead they create a virtual directory that only exists for 32-bit programs. Bravo as always.
bubnenkoff
14:22Why names of objects are printing?
objs: object [

	obj1: object [
		foo: function[] [
			print "foo1"
		]
	]

	obj2: object [
		foo: function[] [
			print "foo2"
		]
	]
	
]

list: words-of objs

foreach el list [ 
	print objs/(el)/foo
]

output:
foo1
obj1
foo2
obj2


I expect only:
foo1
foo2

14:31And is it possible to do return if I have got nested objects like this:
objs: object [

	obj1: object [
		foo: function[] [
			return "foo1"
		]
	]

	obj2: object [
		foo: function[] [
			return "foo2"
		]
	]
	
]

list: words-of objs

foreach el list [ 
	print objs/(el)/foo
]

It's print:
obj1
obj2


But If direct access the result is another:
>> objs/obj1/foo
== "foo1"


14:52but:
foreach el list [ 
	print objs/:el/foo
]

prints:
foo1
foo2


Why? What is the logic here?
hiiamboris
15:02lol, this is really weird
15:04some paren-related stack bug
15:11I'll report it
greggirwin
17:47Thanks @ingvast !
17:49Sysnative isn't found on my system. Not just hidden from view, but the example calls don't work. Does it work for others? Win10 here.
hiiamboris
17:55works for me
greggirwin
17:56I figured it works for @ingvast, so now I need to see what's different here.
hiiamboris
17:56you sure it doesn't work for you?
greggirwin
18:00It was me. :^\
ne1uno
21:45if not exist? %/c/windows/sysnative you probably can use windir system32 pro vrs home? version dependent?
Moppy_gitlab
23:36Are there are any view examples where the mouse can "draw" on the canvas like a pencil?
ne1uno
23:41https://gist.github.com/search?q=drawing&l=red

Moppy_gitlab
00:59this fits the bill
00:59https://gist.github.com/toomasv/70acbae8dc9d2511df319498592c7eed

bubnenkoff
10:24Why I I am getting baz baz baz?
els: ["foo" "bar" "baz"]

ui: collect [
        foreach i els [keep compose [
           text i
        ] ] 
    ]
 view [panel ui]
hiiamboris
10:25add ?? ui
bubnenkoff
10:29m... Should I add some index durung iteration to display proper element like els/(i) ?
rebolek
10:32No, you should use (i) instead of i
bubnenkoff
10:32@rebolek yes, it's work, but why?
10:33(i) is evaluate to proper text value every time?
rebolek
10:34of course, that’s the point of using compose
10:34Returns a copy of a block, evaluating only parens
bubnenkoff
13:10I want to generate UI and bind it's with values. The problem that two items getting same value (as it was in question above).

But I can't figure out what syntax I should to use?
form-each: func [b] [collect [forall b [keep form b/1]]]

config: [
    age: [1 2 3 4]
    index: [7 8 9]
]

ui: collect [
       foreach [key value] config [keep compose/deep [
           group-box (to-string key) [
             (to set-word! rejoin ['config- key]) drop-list data form-each config/(key)  ; []
           ]
        ] ] 
    ]
 view [panel ui]
hiiamboris
13:15
>> ?? ui
ui: [
    group-box "age" [config-age: drop-list data form-each config/(key)] 
    group-box "index" [config-index: drop-list data form-each config/(key)]
]
13:15try select instead of paths
bubnenkoff
13:18@hiiamboris did not understand... how to use select syntax here
>> select config-age 'data
== ["7" "8" "9"]
>> select config-index 'data
== ["7" "8" "9"]
hiiamboris
13:24first you need to figure this out: do you see what is wrong with the ?? ui output?
bubnenkoff
13:26form-each config/(key) did not evaluated to block?
hiiamboris
13:30yeah
13:31but you should check that
bubnenkoff
13:31But the brackets around form-each config/(key) don't help
hiiamboris
13:31use probe
13:31probe is your friend
13:32still I think you didn't notice what's wrong
bubnenkoff
13:35probe for what ?
>> probe config/age
[1 2 3 4]
== [1 2 3 4]
>> 
>> probe config/index
[7 8 9]
== [7 8 9]

?
hiiamboris
13:36for what you think is wrong
13:36insert probe into all steps between correct data and wrong data
13:36then you will know *when* it became wrong
bubnenkoff
16:26@hiiamboris I can't understand at what place I should put probe
hiiamboris
16:46do you understand *why* put probe?
bubnenkoff
16:53to get display state in every step I think. 
form-each: func [b] [collect [forall b [keep form b/1]]]

config: [
    age: [1 2 3 4]
    index: [7 8 9]
]

ui: collect [
       foreach [key value] config [keep compose/deep [
           group-box (to-string key) [
             (to set-word! rejoin ['config- key]) drop-list data copy form-each config/(key)
             (probe reduce to-word rejoin ['config- key]) ; I should here get state of /data
           ]
        ] 
        ] 
    ]
 view [panel ui]
hiiamboris
17:01> to get display state in every step I think.

yes, and did you know you can fit it almost anywhere? like:
>> a: 1 - b: 2 + c: 3    ;) some unknown values
== -4
>> (probe a) + (probe b) + probe c   ;) displays all values
-4
5
3
== 4
bubnenkoff
17:04Hah! I did not know that.
1 - 2 + 3 = -4 ??
hiiamboris
17:06no, why would you think that a,b,c is 1,2,3?
bubnenkoff
17:07a: 1
b: 2
c: 3
pekr
bubnenkoff
pekr
17:07a: 1 followed by minus sign menas, that word a points to the result of 1 - b
17:08or something like that :-)
hiiamboris
17:08
>> trace/all [a: 1 - b: 2 + c: 3]
    b: + 2 c: 3                     => 5                                    
    a: - 1 b: 5                     => -4                                   
== -4
pekr
17:08You can see, that actually first assignment is to c, then result of c is added to b, and then result of that to a
bubnenkoff
17:11it breaks the brain..)) really I need time to understand it....
17:15I understood only that I can write something like:
config: [
    age: [1 2 3 4]
    index: [7 8 9]
]

ui: collect [
       foreach [key value] config [keep compose/deep [
           group-box (to-string key) [
             (probe to set-word! rejoin ['config- key]) drop-list data [] ; probe here
           ]
        ] 

        ] 
    ]
    
view [panel ui]

But it's not what I need
hiiamboris
17:16no, of course not
you need probe before every function called and every variable read
17:19if you don't learn that you will never be able to debug your code
bubnenkoff
17:20> You can see, that actually first assignment is to c, then result of c is added to b, and then result of that to a

It's execute from right to left?!
pekr
17:34Right, but because if bubled to the right, from the left first. Before a was assigned to 1, the minus sign followed, which has precedence, so first "1 - value" applied ....

>> a: 1 - b: 2
== -1
17:35Do you know, why the following is an error? The same reason:

>> length? "a" - 1
*** Script Error: - does not allow string! for its value1 argument
*** Where: -
*** Near : 1
*** Stack:
17:37You have to put first expression, length a, into parens first, because if not, once again minus operation was evaluated first (length? "a") - 1
hiiamboris
17:44@bubnenkoff simply put, in 1 - b: 2, - wants to fetch it's value on the right, but meets b:, and b: like function call f x y z opens a new expression (b: 2 in this case)
17:46otherwise it would be subtracting b: from 1 which doesn't make sense (b: is a set-word) :)
17:47I wonder if we have evaluation documented somewhere?
17:51https://github.com/meijeru/red.specs-public/blob/master/specs.adoc#expressions-and-evaluation-order
17:52TL;DR but good examples there
toomasv
17:55@bubnenkoff Compare these
>> a: 1 - (b: 2) + (c: 3)
== 2
>> a: 1 - (b: 2 + (c: 3))
== -4

First is like a: 1 - 2 + 3
Second is like a: 1 - b: 2 + c: 3
bubnenkoff
18:02Yes with parentheses it's easier to understand
Moppy_gitlab
18:11Why does this not give me transparent text? 
view [
    text 600x30 bold red font-size 20 "My text" font[name: "Consolas" color: 100.100.100.255]
]
bubnenkoff
18:13m... probe show correct result, but app not work
form-each: func [b] [collect [forall b [keep form b/1]]]

config: [
    age: [1 2 3 4]
    index: [7 8 9]
]

ui: collect [
       foreach [key value] config [keep compose/deep [
           group-box (to-string key) [
             ( to set-word! rejoin ['config- key]) drop-list data append [] (probe form-each config/(key))

            ]
        ] 

        ] 
    ]

view [panel ui]

error:
Script Error: VID - invalid syntax at: ["3" "4"]

Am I on the right track?
hiiamboris
18:13use base @moppy_gitlab
18:14text is GDI-based and GDI is 24-bits of depth
18:15> Am I on the right track?

Keep it up @bubnenkoff :) and add more probes. Way more :)
Moppy_gitlab
18:19This successfully makes the background transparent, but not the text 
view [
    base 600x30 255.0.0.255 text bold font-size 20 "My text" font-color 100.100.100.255 font[name: "Consolas"]
]
18:20I guess text in base doesn't use text?
bubnenkoff
18:21@hiiamboris lol I did it. But I still not sure how it's works...
form-each: func [b] [collect [forall b [keep form b/1]]]

config: [
    age: [1 2 3 4]
    index: [7 8 9]
]

ui: collect [
       foreach [key value] config [keep compose/deep [
           group-box (to-string key) [
             ( to set-word! rejoin ['config- key]) drop-list data append [] [(probe form-each config/(key))]

            ]
        ] 

        ] 
    ]

view [panel ui]

was I supposed to do that?
Moppy_gitlab
18:21
view [
    base 600x30 255.0.0.255 bold font-size 20 "My text" font-color 100.100.100.255 font[name: "Consolas"]
]

this works
hiiamboris
18:24@bubnenkoff you've just proven the [Infinite Monkey Theorem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem) !! :D
pekr
18:34The code provided here looks so complicated, that my brain hurts. Why all those collects, keeps, etc.?
greggirwin
18:34@bubnenkoff what I often do in cases like this is start with the simplest thing possible, and make sure I understand what's happening. Then add pieces. If I jump steps, thinking I "get it" after the first one, it often ends with me going back and starting again.

In this case, I'd start with a hard-coded ui block, and make sure the view call works with that. Then add the collect part, and just basic text faces. Include something like a counter for the text, so you can see if each one is different. Now add compose and be sure to use probe as @hiiamboris suggested. Also, when generating UIs like this, it's *vital* that you probe or save the resulting block for analysis. e.g. probe ui should be one of the first things you do, even before you hit a problem. :^)
18:36@pekr dynamic, data driven UIs are loaded with that kind of code, as are code generators in general.
18:37What you have to weigh is when the payoff is big enough, because just changing data lets you build new UIs without copy-pasting old code.
pekr
18:39I know, but if you are a novice, start first with a simple UI and drop-list, fill the block with static data and then start to progress from there. But I am mostly stating what you said above ....
greggirwin
18:42Some of us wade in the shallows, others want to jump right into the deepest parts of the lake. For those, we'll throw life preservers. Eventually there are so many floating around that we stop throwing them and say "Look around you. Save yourself." :^)
18:42Maybe we need emojis for that. ;^)
bubnenkoff
19:49> The code provided here looks so complicated, that my brain hurts. Why all those collects, keeps, etc.?

because I need to generate UI dynamically. For example I can have 10 configs (ages and index just as example of digits values). And be able to access to every element.
gltewalt
20:22"Not only did the monkeys produce nothing but five total pages[14] largely consisting of the letter "S",[12] the lead male began striking the keyboard with a stone, and other monkeys followed by soiling it"
20:23Sounds like my work flow
hiiamboris
gltewalt
20:24s/"S"/"E"

temperfugit
04:47Did the process for Red in Linux change? I downloaded the most recent nightly, set it as executable and tried to run it in the terminal but this happened:
04:47
>>./red-15feb22-3e79be5ab
Compiling compression library...
*** Driver Internal Error: Script Error : Invalid path value: Needs 
*** Where: run-console 
*** Near:  [all [
view? 
any [Windows? macOS? Linux?] 
not gui? 
append source/2/Needs 'View
] 
files: [%auto-complete.red %engine.red %help.red] 
foreach
]
greggirwin
04:51It's a recent regression. Should be fixed before too long.
temperfugit
04:54Okay, thank you.
greggirwin
04:57If you can run the GUI console, that should still build fine.
temperfugit
05:22I have an older build I can use for now, but out of curiosity doesn't it try to build the GUI console by default?
bubnenkoff
10:46Could anybody test next code. It's minimal reproducible code that I was able to create. It's hand Red console in infinity loop:
full-sql: {
            t1.id, t1.section_name,  t1.fz 
            FROM xml_files t1 
     WHERE t1.exists_status IS NULL -- тест, NULL
}


select-columns-raw-part: first split full-sql "FROM"  ;
replace select-columns-raw-part "SELECT" "" ; 


get-list-of-columns-from-select: function[] [   
    raw-list: split select-columns-raw-part ","

    foreach el raw-list [
        column-name: none
        column-name: second split el "." 

        trim column-name ; remove spaced. if comment all works!
    
        print  column-name
    ]

]

get-list-of-columns-from-select


if to comment trim all works.
hiiamboris
10:49> I have an older build I can use for now, but out of curiosity doesn't it try to build the GUI console by default?

@temperfugit not on linux
10:52@bubnenkoff reproduced, GUI console only
rebolek
10:52@bubnenkoff
Reproduced in CLI console
*** Runtime Error 16: invalid virtual address
*** at: 08066AB6h

hiiamboris
10:56Reproduced in CLI console on Ubuntu: a lot of garbage printed before the error 16
11:01тест letters are key to this
11:02replace and column-name: none are not needed
11:09print trim first split {x^/+й} "+" this reproduces it for me
11:09confirmations?
bubnenkoff
11:12for me yes
hiiamboris
11:12:+1:
11:12I'll report it
bubnenkoff
11:15@hiiamboris your are demonstrate perfect knowledge of Cyrillic)
rebolek
11:18@hiiamboris reproduced
hiiamboris
11:21I'm russian too, so no wonder.
11:22for a temporary workaround, use print copy column-name
bubnenkoff
11:27wow), cool, what "^/" symbol means?
hiiamboris
11:29new-line
bubnenkoff
11:31trim is strip only spaces, how to strip new-line also?
hiiamboris
11:32? trim :)
endo64
11:40note that if you use trim/with it removes all newline characters, not only from head & tail.
>> trim/with/tail "one^/two" newline
== "onetwo"
bubnenkoff
15:13Can I switch type? The follow code do not works:
str: "hello"
t: type? str
print t
switch t [
	string! [print "it is string"]
	integer! [print "it is integer"]
]

result is none

>> t: type? str
== string!
Oldes
15:14
switch t [#[string!] [print "string"]]
hiiamboris
15:15I would recommend type?/word
Oldes
15:15Or you can use type?/word instead of type?
bubnenkoff
15:15> I would recommend type?/word

why?
Oldes
15:16Because in your switch block you have words.
hiiamboris
15:16And because #[string!] syntax is very limited and buggy.
15:16Even #[unset!] will cause troubles.
bubnenkoff
15:56How to stringify date and stay it's format as original?
>> rejoin ["yyyy-mm-dd: " 2015-02-28]
== "yyyy-mm-dd: 28-Feb-2015"
hiiamboris
15:58will be possible to define your format once we merge Format module
15:58for now, you have to format each date field yourself
15:59original format is not saved anywhere, so not possible
16:00don't forget to zero-pad the fields
Moppy_gitlab
19:01literal words don't work with context, right?
You can't do this
card_type: context ['b 'c 'd]
== make object! []

you've got to do this 
card_type: context [b: c: d: none]
hiiamboris
19:02construct [b: c: d:] works too
endo64
21:42@Moppy_gitlab it is not "literal words don't work", the block is evaluated but only set words preserved:
>> card_type: context [1 probe "a" none x: 1]
"a"
== make object! [x: 1]

bubnenkoff
17:10I want to create nested object and set value to it. What right way to do it?
foo: object [
	bar: object: [a:1]
	
]

foo/bar/a: 123 ; do not work
gurzgri
17:13Watch out a bit for typos. It works:
>> foo: object [bar: object [a: 1]] foo/bar/a: 2 ? foo/bar/a
FOO/BAR/A is an integer! value: 2
bubnenkoff
17:14oh, yes, you are right, thanks
17:17but why result is empty?
foo: object [
	bar: object [a:1]	
]

foo/bar/a: 123

>> probe foo
make object! [
    bar: make object! [    ]
]
== make object! [
    bar: make object! [    ]
]
hiiamboris
17:18typo again
bubnenkoff
17:19ok, that's mean that I need to go sleep it problems in typos)
hiiamboris
ushakovs_gitlab
17:47
parse "aaaa bb" [(tag: "ss") "aaaa bb"]

return true but

parse "aaaa bb" [(tag: "ss") if (tag = "bb") [break|none] "aaaa bb"]

return false
How "if" should works?
hiiamboris
17:50read this? https://www.red-lang.org/2013/11/041-introducing-parse.html
17:50> if (expr) : evaluate the Red expression, if false or none, fail and backtrack.
17:53
>> parse [x] [if (true) (print "pass") | (print "fail")]
pass
ushakovs_gitlab
17:58I read Helpin' Red.
So how can I select rule between break and none by condition?
hiiamboris
18:01![](https://i.gyazo.com/0a3210dd3afb2e9c0ef2cc4fb5d74dd1.png)
Helpin.red info is misleading at best
ushakovs_gitlab
18:02I try to parse <table> block with many rows in html. So I need parse all of the rows but break after </table> because there are several <table> blocks and I need only first.
hiiamboris
18:02> So how can I select rule between break and none by condition?

see my example above.. parse [x] [if (cond) break | do you need none?]
ushakovs_gitlab
18:03But in your example if cond = false parse return false too.
hiiamboris
18:03because I only shown you how condition works
18:03you can add 'x to match the actual input
18:04also break likely not doing what you think it's doing
18:05when I need to get out of parse fast I put it into a function and use (return ..) from within Parse
18:06another way: before entering a new put an end-condition with if (second-table-already)
ushakovs_gitlab
18:07Is it possible to learn about dialect's words by console help?
hiiamboris
18:09![](https://i.gyazo.com/56922c52a0e2f0e071158ece4c2b3bb3.png)
lol Helpin.Red actually documents R3 rules, not Red rules (we have no then and never had)
18:09> Is it possible to learn about dialect's words by console help?

no, just read that page, or I can give a link to the reference
18:09https://w.red-lang.org/en/parse
18:10it's not an easy reading though ;)
ushakovs_gitlab
18:10[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/qkTo/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/qkTo/image.png)
18:10Also lol:
hiiamboris
18:11oh maybe it was there in the first release?
ushakovs_gitlab
18:11Who knows.
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:11then is in the parse blog
hiiamboris
18:12I have veery old builds
18:12yeah then was there
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:12too slow <-----
hiiamboris
18:13it was so years ago and I'm starting to misremembering things :D

zentrog:matrix.org
01:00It was removed because it was too confusing, and didn't provide much benefit [removal of Parse THEN keyword](https://github.com/red/red/issues/3843)
bubnenkoff
13:18Ia there any micro-linux distribs that support Red? Did anybody tried to run it on some ultra light weight (5-10MB)?
rebolek
16:51as Red supports Musl, it should run on such micro-distros. I tried it on Debian-slim, Alpine, OpenWRT and few others.
ushakovs_gitlab
16:59Is there any libs to work with JSON or other structured format?
hiiamboris
17:00no libs, just ? "json"
17:04XML was merged recently, but I wouldn't recommend XML to anyone :D
keep in mind though, Red is first a data format, then a language, so why not use Red or Redbin directly, unless you need interop with other software?
ne1uno
17:04Needs: ['json] yet?
hiiamboris
17:06it should be available in prebuilt console in any case
Moppy_gitlab
17:18popup appears to be buggy. After closing one(with the x button), clicking anywhere in previously opened "main" window reopens the popup, and the "main" window can't be closed with the x button.
17:18
to-field: function [] [
	view [field] [modal popup]
]

view [
	b1: button "draw" [resize]
	canvas: base 200x200 white
	return 
	canvas-info: text "200x200" 
		on-down [to-field]
]
ushakovs_gitlab
17:18I need interop exactly. So JSON is good enough. Thank you!
hiiamboris
17:24modal is not used in your code @Moppy_gitlab
17:24so, it's a View bug
Moppy_gitlab
17:31what do you mean modal is not used?
ne1uno
17:34? view
hiiamboris
17:36you forgot /flags
Moppy_gitlab
17:36okay
17:36thanks
17:38The problem persists 
to-field: function [] [
    view/flags [field] [modal popup]
]
17:38Do I have to program the x button to unview the window?
hiiamboris
17:39reported https://github.com/red/red/issues/5083
17:39try on-up for now?
17:40I saw very similar bug on W7, need to find it
ne1uno
17:40model is a little wonky, focus might return to some random window
Moppy_gitlab
17:45what does on-up do? Doesn't seem to be documented. https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/view.adoc https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/vid.adoc
gltewalt:matrix.org
17:49on- <event> is an actor, so up is the event doc
Moppy_gitlab
17:50not here either https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/draw.adoc
17:50okay
gltewalt:matrix.org
17:51https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/view.adoc#111-event-names
Moppy_gitlab
17:59
to-field: function [] [
    view/flags [
	field 
	on-up [unview]
    ] [modal popup]
]

view [
    b1: button "draw" [resize]
    canvas: base 200x200 white
    return 
    canvas-info: text "200x200" 
        on-down [to-field]
]

this both makes the field useless and the problem persists. I'll wait then.
hiiamboris
18:03you missed the point completely :)
18:04on-up [to-field]
Moppy_gitlab
18:05removing modal all together doesn't seem to make a difference either. I appreciate the condescension.
18:08This freezes all interaction. So yeah. Doesn't work 
to-field: function [] [
    view/flags [
	field 
    ] [modal popup]
]

view [
    b1: button "draw" [resize]
    canvas: base 200x200 white
    return 
    canvas-info: text "200x200" 
        on-up [to-field]
]
18:09insert smiley face
hiiamboris
18:10View is a mess
ne1uno
18:12adding 'done to the event didn't help either
Moppy_gitlab
18:14would easy GUI be considered one of the main draws of Red?
18:15the syntax is nice and all
18:16but uuuugh, popups are kind of important for real programs
hiiamboris
18:16agreed, hit that many times already
ne1uno
18:17can still right click on the system menu, upper left icon to close
Moppy_gitlab
18:20@ne1uno you can, but for me, the right click menu is disabled until I click on some other window
pekr
18:29I wonder if most of those problems are related to the difficulcy of wrapping of the native gui elements?
hiiamboris
18:30
to-field: function [] [
    view/flags [
    field 
    ] [modal popup]
]

view [
    b1: button "draw" [resize]
    canvas: base 200x200 white
    return 
    canvas-info: box 0.0.0.254 left 100x25 "200x200" 
        on-up [to-field]
]

this works
Moppy_gitlab
18:31@pekr I assume that's why most languages opt for bindings to gui frameworks like qt
ne1uno
18:33probably not every element is fully wrapped to work like a button automatically?
hiiamboris
18:36it's not native controls that are a problem, it's tech debt
View was written hastily to get funding for Red, and never was like really designed
pekr
18:37@Moppy_gitlab But we were there already with the R2 and R3 and found our toolkits, system wise, being not fully compatible - especially in the resort of hotkeys, system look, etc. compatibility.
Moppy_gitlab
18:46okay, well I'm glad this works. For future reference, I guess everything I want to use as a button, that isn't a button, should be a box?
to-field: function [] [
    view/flags [
    new-size: field
    on-enter [canvas/size: to-pair new-size/text] 
    ] [modal popup]
]

view [
    canvas: base 200x200 white
    return 
    canvas-info: box 0.0.0.254 left 100x25 "200x200" 
        on-up [to-field]
]
hiiamboris
18:48you'll know, if it works then you're correct :)
ne1uno
18:48base works for custom buttons usually
hiiamboris
18:48box/base - same thing, different defaults
18:48but transparent colors also very problematic on W7
ne1uno
18:48x.x.x.254 for transparent ones
Moppy_gitlab
19:26Can the pixels of a base be accessed and edited directly? Say for instance, I wanted to change a single pixel to a different color.
19:26not by adding something on top of the canvas, but by directly changing the canvas itself
hiiamboris
19:30use image instead of base
>> view/no-wait [i: image]
>> i/image
== make image! [100x100 #{
    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF...
19:30it's the same base but with image preallocated to it
19:32or add that pixel into draw facet of the base
19:32box 10x10 11x11 smth like that
19:33that's "on top" but it also eats less RAM
gltewalt
19:35What are you trying to do @Moppy_gitlab
19:50
view [
    size 200x100 
    title "View can view" 
    button "Click Me" [
        view [
            text "I'm a pop-up" button "Ok" [unview]
        ]
    ]
]

19:52And alert exists to use as a guide/template for your own pop-ups.
19:52
alert: func [msg [string! block!]][
    view/flags compose [
        title "Message" 
        below center 
        text 200 (form reduce msg) center 
        button focus "OK" [unview] on-key [
            switch event/key [
                #"^M" #"^[" #" " #"^O" [unview]
            ]
        ]
    ] 'modal
]

Moppy_gitlab
20:09@gltewalt in a broad sense, remake ms paint as closely as I can, like https://jspaint.app/
20:13view [image %something.png] is already better in that it preserves transparency
gltewalt
20:26box might be of use
20:26It's a transparent base
Moppy_gitlab
20:34the image! type lets you access pixel's value through a numbered path it seems, and every pixel is represented by 6 letters, or a tuple! value. 
>> x: load %pixtest.png
== make image! [2x2 #{ED1C24FFAEC9FFFFFF000000}]
>> x/1
== 237.28.36.0
>> x/2
== 255.174.201.0
hiiamboris
20:34x/1x1
20:34x/(as-pair x y)
Moppy_gitlab
20:35that's convenient
20:37
x: make image! [100x100 255.255.255.0]

view [
	image x on-down [x/(event/offset): 0.0.0.0]
]
hiiamboris
20:48:+1:
Moppy_gitlab
21:22
repeat x-coor x/size/1 [repeat y-coor x/size/2 [
	probe coor: make pair! reduce [x-coor y-coor]
	append/only storage reduce [coor x/:coor]
]]
1x1
1x2
2x1
2x2
3x1
3x2
4x1
4x2
5x1
5x2
== [[1x1 255.255.255.0] [1x1 255.255.255.0] [2x2 255.255.255.0] [2x2 255.255.255.0] [3x3 none] [3x3 none] [4x...

21:23coor is being set to what I expect it to be, but it's not evaluating in reduce to that
21:25probe reduce also gives me what I expect.
21:25so whatever is being appended to storage is different
hiiamboris
21:26doesn't make sense
21:26works for me
Moppy_gitlab
21:27x is this by the way x: make image! [5x2 255.255.255.0]
21:28okay, it works now
21:28after restarting the console
gurzgri
22:02just a note, you can use coor: as-pair x-coor y-coorinstead
22:11and you can poke x event/offset 0.0.0.0 as an alternative to x/(event/offset): 0.0.0.0 if speed isn't your ultimate concern (it's a tad slower)
Moppy_gitlab
23:09 This works, but if you move the pencil(mouse) too fast, it doesn't keep up and you end up with lots of little dots. 
mouse-state: 'up

pencil: func [event] [
	if mouse-state = 'down [
		base-image/(event/offset): 0.0.0.0
	]
]


base-image: make image! [200x200 255.255.255.0]

view [
    canvas: image all-over 
	base-image 
	on-down [mouse-state: 'down]
	on-up [mouse-state: 'up]
	on-over [pencil event]
]
23:10instead of a continuous line
gltewalt:matrix.org
23:46What does view/no-wait give you?
Moppy_gitlab
23:49the window instantly closes
23:50pretty sure that's what's it's supposed to do
gltewalt
23:50Yeah. missremembering. I think you want to play with rate
23:51https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/view.adoc#2-face-object
Moppy_gitlab
23:54I've been trying. Setting it higher and higher up to 500000 doesn't seem to change anything
23:55I'm not sure it's related to the mouse even.
23:55on-over specifically
23:57it affects on-time

Moppy_gitlab
00:11I don't think time events know anything about the mouse 
on-time [print event/offset]

none
none
none
......
00:25This program doesn't have this issue. It doesn't use rate. The biggest difference seems to be that it draws lines instead of edits pixels
00:25https://gist.github.com/toomasv/70acbae8dc9d2511df319498592c7eed
gltewalt
00:26Yeah, uses draw
Moppy_gitlab
00:26for my purposes, that's not gonna work
gurzgri
00:30no way that ’view/no-wait’ instantly closes a window, it rather opens a window but doesn‘t wait for events in an event loop.
Moppy_gitlab
00:31should I record a video of it instantly closing?
gurzgri
00:33The difference between toomasv‘s version and yours is that the former uses the draw block to draws lines to get lines from the old mouse pos to the current mouse pos, not just plots loose pixels at current mouse pos in an image
00:34minimal sample code to demonstrate should do
00:34No video required
Moppy_gitlab
00:35his doesn't use no-wait
00:36my goal here is to quickly edit an image's pixels based on mouse position
gltewalt:matrix.org
00:38It doesn't close here, but im using Mint
Moppy_gitlab
00:56video of instant closing https://files.catbox.moe/duosq9.mp4
luis-rj
01:25@Moppy_gitlab Add do-events as last line of you program.
Moppy_gitlab
01:27the problem persists
gltewalt
01:31I'd guess that it can only be one of -
a) the rate at which events are processing
b) resolution
01:32@toomasv any knowledge here?
Moppy_gitlab
01:32I asked elsewhere how you'd typically do this
01:32
You need to buffer the cursor position in memory so those pixels can be affected at a asynchronous rate to the script, display refresh or CPU time.
>
01:33not a Red specific answer
gltewalt
01:33Makes sense, but yeah.. I'm curious about Red specific
Moppy_gitlab
01:34I wouldn't know how to make a buffer in any language, but uugh, I guess Red has support for that?
gltewalt:matrix.org
01:39As far as I know you'd have to make one. But others will be along to give their 2 cents
01:44Maybe do the old fill bucket 🪣 part while you're stuch
01:53I'm stuck too, I dont know how to smooth it out without going into that buffer idea.
01:54Maybe... look at draw source code and see how it draws
Moppy_gitlab
01:56I have no problem with using a buffer conceptually.
ne1uno
01:56pixelation from integer x,y? maybe zoom in
Moppy_gitlab
01:57you mean drawing a line, and then pixelizing it?
01:59line is some kind of abstraction of pixels, so whatever it uses to keep track of mouse position must also be usable for editing pixels.
toomasv
07:11Drawing directly into image, but dotty:
x: make image! [100x100 255.255.255.0] a: x/argb
view [
    below 
    image x all-over on-over [if event/down? [x/(event/offset): 0.0.0.0]] 
    button 100 "Clear" [x/argb: a]
]

To draw with smooth continuous line I suggest using draw with spline.
ldci
07:36@Moppy_gitlab You’ll find in redCV different routines (R/S) and functions (Red) such as rcvGetPixel or rcvSetPixel that allow getting and seting individual pixel value.
toomasv
09:33With continuous line:
view [
    below 
    pic: base white 100x100 draw [] all-over 
        on-over [if event/down? [append face/draw event/offset]] 
        on-down [append face/draw reduce ['spline event/offset event/offset]] 
    button 100 "Clear" [clear pic/draw]
]
hiiamboris
09:44after a few seconds this is gonna slow down a lot
09:45you have to rasterize points before the last two
toomasv
10:34Maybe then:
x: draw 100x100 [] 
clr: x/rgb
view [
    below 
    im: image x draw [] all-over 
        on-over [if event/down? [append face/draw event/offset]] 
        on-down [
            if not empty? face/draw [
                dr: draw face/size face/draw 
                x/rgb: x/rgb and dr/rgb 
                clear face/draw
            ] 
            append face/draw reduce ['spline event/offset event/offset]
        ] 
    bt: button 100 "Clear" [clear im/draw x/rgb: clr]
]
hiiamboris
10:45why not draw x face/draw?
10:46it actually has acceptable speed now, maybe because of D2D
when I tested it on GDI back then it was *really* slowing down
toomasv
10:46Yeah, of course. Silly me.
hiiamboris
11:17wow I changed spline to curve and it crashes baaadly
toomasv
11:31Did you use shape? And how do you place control points?
hiiamboris
11:34
view [
    below 
    im: box 0.0.0.254 1000x600 draw [] all-over 
        on-over [if event/down? [append face/draw event/offset]] 
        on-down [
            append face/draw reduce ['line-width 3 'curve event/offset event/offset]
        ] 
    bt: button 100 "Clear" [clear im/draw]
]

this is the crashing code
need to simplify it :)
toomasv
11:41This works
x: draw 100x100 [] 
clr: x/rgb
view [
    below 
    im: image x draw [shape []] all-over 
        on-over [if event/down? [append face/draw/shape reduce [event/offset event/offset]]] 
        on-down [
            if not empty? face/draw/shape [draw x face/draw  clear face/draw/shape] 
            append face/draw/shape reduce ['move e: event/offset 'curv e e]
        ] 
    bt: button 100 "Clear" [clear im/draw/shape x/rgb: clr]
]
12:31But control-points are nonsensical :)
hiiamboris
12:40
view [
    im: box 0.0.0.254 1000x600 draw [] all-over 
        on-over [if event/down? [append face/draw event/offset]] 
        on-down [append face/draw reduce ['line-width 3 'line event/offset event/offset]]
]

this is **unbearably** slow somehow
12:42almost okay on GUI console, but delayed by seconds on CLI console
12:50also, it's much faster if drawing by touchpad, and only slow when using touchscreen
12:54or maybe it's random, depending how it aligns with the timer
gurzgri
13:11can't confirm this, same acceptable speed in cli and gui console here on a SurfacePro7 i5-1035G4 @ 1.10GHz 8 GB, latest automated Red build. no differences between mouse, touchpad or touchscreen
hiiamboris
13:16interesting! need to investigate this more
13:16Surface has a discrete GPU?
13:22what if I add probe to CLI console:
view [
    im: box 0.0.0.254 1000x600 draw [] all-over 
        on-over [if event/down? [append face/draw event/offset probe length? face/draw]] 
        on-down [append face/draw reduce ['line-width 3 'line event/offset event/offset]]
]

still fast?
gurzgri
13:26ask me something simpler, especially ask me nothing about GPUs ;-) ... I think I stopped following them after Denise and Lisa. Should be a Intel Iris Plus Graphics G4 (Ice Lake 48 EU) without dedicated graphics eDRAM.
hiiamboris
13:28I really don't get it. It usually starts slow for me like I'm drawing 100-200px away from where I see the changes, then esp. on touchpad, after like 10 seconds it starts to keep up and now it's not slow anymore, even though the number of points maybe close to 500 by now
gurzgri
13:28With probeing, GUI slows way down, no noticable degrading with CLI console.
hiiamboris
13:28nah, GUI is expected to slow down
gurzgri
13:29yeah, thought so
13:30number of points doesn't matter much, I almost painted the whole canvas black :D
hiiamboris
13:31![](https://i.gyazo.com/2b7232149c07fb82c47459438d442e58.gif)
13:31here it's even visible - first 3 seconds (touchpad) delay is so huge that it creates inertia
13:32then it suddenly syncs with me and keeps up after
13:33but I've no idea about the reasons :laughing:
13:41battery mode doesn't affect it for me
Moppy_gitlab
15:27@ldci thanks for pointing me in that direction.
15:28the point's not to make lines, the point's to edit pixels in a variety of ways
15:41does RedCV offer a way of dealing with the mouse? Because the mouse seems to be the problem point
15:51This works, but doesn't solve the issue. And when going out of bounds, it causes an access violation and closes the program 
on-over [if event/down? [rcvSetPixel base-image event/offset 0.0.0.0]]
ne1uno
15:53check < 0?
hiiamboris
15:54@Moppy_gitlab your previous bugs were fixed today
Moppy_gitlab
15:55with text?
hiiamboris
15:57yeah
Moppy_gitlab
16:09This demonstrates the crux of the problem. 
base-image: make image! [200x200 255.255.255.0]

view [
    canvas: image all-over base-image 
		on-over [if event/down? [print event/offset]]
]

output
67x24
67x32
67x40
67x50
67x60
67x74
67x86
67x101
67x116
67x129
66x144
65x154
64x161
64x166
62x168
62x169
62x170

I held the mouse down the entire time, so there's no way it could have teleported from 67x24 to 67x32. I need a way to capture every single pixel the mouse goes while the button is held down.
hiiamboris
16:14study the solutions above
ne1uno
16:17high mouse acceleration dpi? I'm not seeing much breakup
Moppy_gitlab
16:19Okay, I'll read Red/System docs so I can understand this https://github.com/red/red/blob/89896f9c1e3d9ddbe97d33392d3239b00df0afb3/modules/view/draw.red
hiiamboris
16:20don't overcomplicate the task :)
16:20what you're looking for is like 3 lines of code
Moppy_gitlab
16:21I know this task is possible in a browser with javascript of all things. I don't know how though.
ne1uno
16:25https://www.tutorialspoint.com/How-to-draw-on-the-canvas-with-JavaScript
16:30that's not a good example, looks like default html5 canvas accepts drawing by default
Moppy_gitlab
16:47https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Element/mousemove_event
16:48> The frequency rate of events while the pointing device is moved is implementation-, device-, and platform-specific, but multiple consecutive mousemove events SHOULD be fired for sustained pointer-device movement, rather than a single event for each instance of mouse movement. Implementations are encouraged to determine the optimal frequency rate to balance responsiveness with performance.
16:48https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#event-type-mousemove
16:56maybe interpolation could work
hiiamboris
16:58read the above like 5 times and still don't understand what it's saying :/
Moppy_gitlab
17:00I think, if movement puts events on a queue that happen consecutively, every movement causes multiple events. So even if I just moved the mouse one pixel, it would return its offset 5 times
hiiamboris
17:03but that would pixelate the movements, make lines look like in 80s
17:04I doubt that's what it's saying
ne1uno
17:10you're going to have to know if the movement was continuous to interpolate. de-bouncing user intentions is probably more than you want to do.
17:16https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Canvas_API/Tutorial/Basic_animations there's probably a drawing on canvas section here but I didn't find it
Moppy_gitlab
17:35I guess like this 
a: 1x1
b: 5x7

straight-gen a b
{
	desired output 
		[
			1x1 2x2 3x3 4x4 5x5 5x6 5x7
		]
}
17:37I'll make a block(for x difference), then turn each member into a pair(y difference)
hiiamboris
17:40I'd recommend to rethink your approach. It was already solved idiomatically in the above examples by Toomas.
17:40On the other hand if you pursue this, you'll realize why it's deeply wrong. Also a good thing.
Moppy_gitlab
17:42If you're trying to feed a bird, and you feed a cat instead, you fed an animal, but not the right one.
ne1uno
17:43http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bresenham%27s_line_algorithm the 5th day adventofcode 2021 was about line intersection.
hiiamboris
17:45aliased :)
ne1uno
17:45guessing your mouse sensitivity is high too
Moppy_gitlab
17:46my mouse is normal. Hardware is really not relevant.
toomasv
18:18Somehow 1x1 is not there?
i: draw 10x10 [anti-alias off line 1x1 5x7]
collect [repeat r 10 [repeat c 10 [if i/(p: as-pair c r) = black [keep p]]]]
;== [2x2 2x3 3x3 3x4 4x5 4x6 5x6 5x7]
hiiamboris
18:19start with 0x0
toomasv
18:19Then 5x7 will not be there
hiiamboris
18:22why?
18:22![](https://i.gyazo.com/c12430002b722355757579d6bb986149.png)
toomasv
18:23Hmm.. tired?
collect [repeat r 10 [r: r - 1 repeat c 10 [c: c - 1 if i/(p: as-pair c r) = black [keep p]]]]
== [2x2 2x3 3x3 3x4 4x5 4x6 5x6 5x7]

hiiamboris
18:23D2D follows coordinate system 3 here
toomasv
18:24
collect [repeat r 10 [repeat c 10 [if i/(p: as-pair c r) = black [keep p - 1]]]]
== [1x1 1x2 2x2 2x3 3x4 3x5 4x5 4x6]
hiiamboris
18:25well, your line is 5x7 - 1x1 = 4x6 pixels in size (outline)
18:26![](https://i.gyazo.com/bb1aa7b5ddefe002efce09d60d4a25d5.png)
toomasv
18:28Ok, so it draws to the "start" of 5x7?
hiiamboris
18:29![](https://i.gyazo.com/cb231bd263888ee03cce2c2c5b024ca6.png)
18:29red line coordinates are 1x1 to 5x7 on this pic
18:29there's no "start" or "end"
toomasv
18:29:+1:
bubnenkoff
18:33What principle difference when I should use object instead of block?
foo: [a: 1 b: 2 c: 3]
vs
foo: object [a: 1 b: 2 c: 3]
From real usage. I am using mostly blocks when I have same data structure, but now I see that at last real useful thing is support of casing object to json

hiiamboris
18:36objects are heavier to create, but faster to select from
Moppy_gitlab
18:39this produces some, uugh interesting results
initial: none

pencil: function [event] [
		base-image/(event/offset): 0.0.0.0

]

straight-gen: function [init-pair final-pair] [
	x-diff: final-pair/1 - init-pair/1
	y-diff: final-pair/2 - init-pair/2

	xvals: copy reduce []
	repeat x absolute x-diff [
		x-to-add: x
		if negative? x-diff [x-to-add: x-to-add * -1]
		append xvals reduce [init-pair/1 + x-to-add]
	]
	
	vals: copy reduce [init-pair] 
	repeat y absolute y-diff [
		y-to-add: y
		if negative? y-diff [y-to-add: y-to-add * -1]
		case [
			tail? xvals [
				append vals as-pair xvals/-1 (init-pair/2 + y-to-add)
				]
			(init-pair/2 + y-to-add) > xvals/1 [
				append vals as-pair xvals/1 (init-pair/2 + y-to-add)
				]
			true [
				append vals as-pair xvals/1 (init-pair/2 + y-to-add)
				xvals: next xvals
				]
	]]
	vals
]


base-image: make image! [200x200 255.255.255.0]

view [
    canvas: image all-over base-image 
		on-down [initial: event/offset]
		on-over [if event/down? [
			foreach pixel (straight-gen initial event/offset) [
				base-image/:pixel: 0.0.0.0
			] 	
		]]
		on-up [initial: none]
]
hiiamboris
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:49> but that would pixelate the movements, make lines look like in 80s

Queue up events, blow out queued events (serially).
Moppy_gitlab
18:50now it's a little better
view [
    canvas: image all-over base-image 
		on-down [initial: event/offset]
		on-over [if event/down? [
			foreach pixel (straight-gen initial event/offset) [
				base-image/:pixel: 0.0.0.0
			] 	
		]
			initial: event/offset
		]
		on-up [initial: none]
]
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:51Like buffering for video
Moppy_gitlab
18:55except for straight lines that go up and down(kinda, not really), the desired result has not been achieved. There's also a noticeable delay between mouse movement and pixel color changing. With my current information, I give up.
ne1uno
18:55que unique sequential events, react on a timer to smooth line output. to what end? avoiding draw?
Moppy_gitlab
18:56I'm not avoiding draw, I don't need draw. Draw is tangential to what I've trying to do.
hiiamboris
18:57no it's not
Moppy_gitlab
18:57ms paint is the goal
hiiamboris
18:57draw is exactly what you should have used
GiuseppeChillemi
18:57I would like have a dynamic command whose refinements are defined by a word like:

r: 'part
copy/:r [a b c] 2

But it does not work
I have tried in REBOL 

>> do to-path reduce ['copy r] [a b c] 2
== [a b]


It does work but not in RED. I have to use:

do reduce reduce ['to-path reduce ['copy r] [a b c] 2]


Which is far less readable than both the above versions


Is there a way to have the first version, which is very easy to manage, write and read?
Moppy_gitlab
18:57ms paint does not make line objects, it edits pixels
18:57when you use the pencil
hiiamboris
18:57so study draw better
18:57? draw
18:58like I said, your task was already solved above today :)
Moppy_gitlab
18:58I don't think you understand my task
hiiamboris
18:59> Is there a way to have the first version, which is very easy to manage, write and read?

@GiuseppeChillemi no, by design, variable arity is forbidden to make interpreter faster and more predictable
19:00@Moppy_gitlab I do :)
Moppy_gitlab
19:00In that case, you'd be able to say how draw accomplishes what I'm trying to
hiiamboris
19:00? draw
Moppy_gitlab
19:01I don't know why you're getting defensive.
hiiamboris
19:01
DESCRIPTION: 
     Draws scalable vector graphics to an image.
Moppy_gitlab
19:01I'm not doing vector graphics
19:01vector graphics is not my goal
hiiamboris
19:02ignore that
19:02read "TO AN IMAGE"
GiuseppeChillemi
19:02@hiiamboris
I know, we have talked about this 2 years ago. But I have hoped refinement could be evaluated before arity i defined so the interpreter know that copy/:r needs 2 args instead of 1.

hiiamboris
19:03@GiuseppeChillemi well, I wish for that too sometimes (not too often though)
Moppy_gitlab
19:03"To an Image" doesn't imply anything about raster graphics
hiiamboris
19:03image! is a raster array in Red, aka bitmap
GiuseppeChillemi
19:04

ref: 'part
command: to-path reduce ['copy ref]
do reduce [command [a b c] 2]

== [a b]
>
hiiamboris
19:04just make a wrapper that works for both R2 and Red
Moppy_gitlab
19:05>Raster-based image editors, such as PaintShop Pro, Corel Painter, Adobe Photoshop, Paint.NET, Microsoft Paint, and GIMP, revolve around editing pixels, unlike vector-based image editors, such as Xfig, CorelDRAW, Adobe Illustrator, or Inkscape, which revolve around editing lines and shapes (vectors).
hiiamboris
19:06I know what raster is and I know what you're trying to do, and I stand by my point draw function is the way
Moppy_gitlab
19:06even if I could finagle it, it's still an extra step going from vector to raster
hiiamboris
19:06don't be so stubborn, plz?
19:08either you leverage draw or you reimplement it by modifying individual pixels
19:08there's no other way
GiuseppeChillemi
19:09The most important thing I miss is to ability to run a function returned but another one or as result of a selection:
f: reduce ['f1 func [a b] [print [a * b]] 'f2 func [a b] [print [a + b]]]
select f 'f1 arg1 arg2
Moppy_gitlab
19:09I'd rather reimplement it. I don't know how I'd do that now. Hence what I said earlier about giving up.
hiiamboris
19:09mkay
GiuseppeChillemi
19:09or 
f/f1 arg1 arg2
ne1uno
19:09found https://github.com/raevilman/excalidraw while looking up their https://github.com/raevilman/windows-scripts/tree/master/mouse/speed
19:09not sure if it's
19:10not sure if it's vector or raster, but likely simpler than paint.net
gltewalt
19:11A hue amount of stuff, though
hiiamboris
19:12@GiuseppeChillemi why select? myfunction/f1 is an active accessor already
19:13f/f1 should work
19:14ah, I see what you're doing
GiuseppeChillemi
19:14You are right, I have forgotten about this. It is just you can't execute when returning a function as result of another one!
hiiamboris
19:14f2: f/f1 f2 arg1 arg2
19:14cleanest way
GiuseppeChillemi
19:18@hiiamboris
:point_up: [20 febbraio 2022 20:09](https://gitter.im/red/help?at=621291d36b91242320fb15c8)

I have corrected the example, it is now what I want to do.
hiiamboris
19:20well, that one is not returning a function
19:20but I've shown you the way without reduce
GiuseppeChillemi
19:25Why?
f: reduce ['f1 func [a b] [print [a * b]] 'f2 func [a b] [print [a + b]]]
select f 'f1
== func [a b][print [a * b]]
hiiamboris
19:26I mean this:
> when returning a function as result of another one!
GiuseppeChillemi
19:27Pardon, I have not understood!
19:27Could you repeat the example with the source data?
hiiamboris
19:29ah nevermind
19:29sorry I need to make dinner fast
19:45@GiuseppeChillemi I'm sayin your code does not have a function that returns a function
20:03@Moppy_gitlab regarding your quest. I know nothing of mspaint source code, but I'm confident that it doesn't include a vector rasterizer. Nor does Red - it just lets OS do all that. And OS lets the driver do that. Just how low level do you wanna get with this? Red/System would be a better language for this task than Red.
greggirwin
20:26@Moppy_gitlab your straight-gen confused me, as to your goal. I haven't followed the other links posted, but for a pencil brush, you should just be able to poke the color value into the image's pixel at a given position.
Moppy_gitlab
20:27@hiiamboris As low as necessary to get a clean solution with no magic involved as to how events work.
hiiamboris
20:28what events?
20:29what magic?
Moppy_gitlab
20:30Toomas suggesting I used spline. Even if this would fix things, I don't how it does. I have no idea how spline works and draw as a whole.
hiiamboris
20:31like I said, it gets down to the driver and DirectX code
20:31do you wanna go that low? maybe also to program the GPU?
Moppy_gitlab
20:31I don't want to append a draw block millions of times
hiiamboris
20:31anyway, my point is, you have to balance your task's complexity with your skills
20:31otherwise it will be no fun for you
20:32no fun = no learning
Moppy_gitlab
20:32the draw block is going to get gargantuan
20:32editing the image itself is cleaner
hiiamboris
20:32don't append, just understand that draw function draws a stroke on a bitmap
20:32I've spent whole evening trying to get this thru to you :)
20:33after it's drawn - there's just pixels
Moppy_gitlab
20:33
on-down [
            if not empty? face/draw/shape [draw x face/draw  clear face/draw/shape] 
            append face/draw/shape reduce ['move e: event/offset 'curv e e]
        ]
20:33append is right there
hiiamboris
20:33that's because Toomas didn't choose to draw *every* intermediate line, only the whole line after mouse-up event
20:34doesn't stop you from doing that
Moppy_gitlab
20:35I haven't seen any instance of putting a line in draw [] that doesn't involve appending to draw
20:36the line should not be deletable
20:36it should replace the color values of the pixels in those locations
hiiamboris
20:37do you understand the distinction between face's draw facet (which is a block) and a draw function that commit similar block to the bitmap?
gurzgri
20:37you seem to confuse face/draw block with the function draw.
hiiamboris
20:37:turtle:
20:37:rocket:
gurzgri
20:37beat me :D
GiuseppeChillemi
20:38@hiiamboris I have spent the last hour making this. It works for Rebol and Red. 

run-a-cmd: func [
	"Run a command by name with separate refinements and argument"
	'cmd [word! function! action!] "The command name or a function"
	ref [word! block! none!] "The refinements"
	args [block!] "the arguments"
	/local
	the-command 
	command
	exe
	run?
	the-ref
	in-cmd
] [
	run?: true
	exe: copy []
	either any [function? :cmd action? :cmd]  [
		in-cmd: :cmd
		the-command: 'in-cmd
	] [
		the-command: :cmd
	] 
  either none? ref [
  	the-command: append reduce [the-command] args
  ] [

  	if block? ref [
  		forall ref [
  			the-ref: first ref
  			if any [not word? the-ref not refinement? the-ref] [run?: false]
  			
  		]

  		ref: to-path ref
  		
  	]
  	
  	the-command: append append/only exe to-path reduce [the-command ref] args 
  ] 		
	either run? = true [do the-command] [make error! "Invalid refinements!"]
]

probe run-a-cmd copy none [[a b c]]
probe run-a-cmd copy 'part [[a b c] 1]
probe run-a-cmd :copy none [[a b c]]
probe run-a-cmd :copy 'part [[a b c] 1] 
probe run-a-cmd :copy [deep part] [[a b c] 1]
probe run-a-cmd :copy [deep part 22.2] [[a b c] 1]


Result:
[a b c]
[a]
[a b c]
[a]
make error! [
    code: 800
    type: 'user
    id: 'message
    arg1: "Invalid refinements!"
    arg2: none
    arg3: none
    near: none
    where: none
    stack: none
]


Suggestion are welcome!
Moppy_gitlab
20:39there are no functions in view though. just faces
hiiamboris
20:39:clap: @GiuseppeChillemi
gurzgri
20:40´system/words/draw´ or, as we say, global context
hiiamboris
20:40yeah I pointed to ? draw like 3 times already :)
gurzgri
20:40I know.
Moppy_gitlab
20:41so there's the draw dialect, draw facet and draw function
hiiamboris
20:42and it's all documented in https://w.red-lang.org/en/draw
Moppy_gitlab
20:45so this guide is not actually about draw https://www.red-by-example.org/draw.html
20:45the function
20:45or dialect
20:46or whatever it is I should be using
20:47Looks like a facet of base to me 
view [   
   canvas: base 150x150 draw [line 10x0 160x50]
]
hiiamboris
20:57correct
Moppy_gitlab
21:01
base-image: make image! [200x200 255.255.255.0]
draw base-image [line 0x0 10x10]
view [image base-image]

I did not know you could do this.
hiiamboris
21:02that's why I initially insisted you study the Toomas' example
Moppy_gitlab
21:06there seems to be a difference between save and write
21:08>Note that write is intended for storing data, not code.
or files I guess
hiiamboris
21:09save is roughly write mold
Moppy_gitlab
22:48[![res.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/zL9l/thumb/res.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/zL9l/res.png)
22:48
base-image: make image! [200x200 255.255.255.0]
draw base-image [anti-alias off line 0x20 150x21]

above, result of this, below, what I'm trying to do(should go one pixel below initial point, but you know what I mean)
22:53This makes a hole in the line 
draw base-image [anti-alias off line 0x20 150x22]

22:53[![res2.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/7Ik5/thumb/res2.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/7Ik5/res2.png)
ne1uno
23:03invent grey half pixels?
23:06line-width 2
Moppy_gitlab
23:11so is draw's vector -> bitmap system limited in how precise it can be?
ne1uno
23:12what are the options? zoom out and you can have more pixels
23:20keep lines horizontal, vertical or 45 degrees to minimize jaggies
23:45https://github.com/red/red/wiki/[PROP]-Image-coordinate-systems-reboot-idea similar problem shows up in scale & rotation

pekr
06:34I would like to say, that even with R2, user called Geomol created a paint program, which resembled Amiga Deluxe paint, and it worked. I just can't find any screenshots right now ....
ne1uno
06:46Rebol Geomol paint turns up a bunch of links. R2 draw effects would need work
pekr
06:52None of them are useful to the topic. Just wanted to show you a Rebol version of Amiga Deluxe Paint in under 200KB of code. Would have to dig some harddrive.
ne1uno
06:54https://pastebin.com/Xpz2Nq9Y
06:57>Paint REBOL version "Frank Sievertsen" Red port "Gregg Irwin"
pekr
06:59That's not it. Geomol (John Niclasen) was very skilled Rebol programmer. He even created a Rebol clone called World programming language. I think, it is abandoned, as its website dissappeared, but it can be found via Github, last commits in 2016 ....
06:59But - there was multiple simpler paint programs and as for Red, I think stuff from Toomas are quite inspirational ....
ldci
07:01See http://www.world-lang.org
ne1uno
07:01https://github.com/Geomol/World/
07:11I used some amiga paint & cad and the video toaster in the early 90's at a marketing company. way ahead of anything else I had access to then.
toomasv
08:43@Moppy_gitlab Something like this?
img: draw 200x50 [] clr: img/rgb
paint-line: function [img [image!] points [block!]][
	img/rgb: clr forall points [
		if not last? points [df: points/2 - points/1 case [
			any [df/y = 0 df/x = 0 (abs-x: absolute df/x) = (abs-y: absolute df/y)] [
				draw img compose [anti-alias off line (points/1) (points/2)]
			] 
			abs-x > abs-y [
				dy: pick [-1 1] df/y < 0 dx: df/x / ay: abs-y + 1 x: points/1/x y: points/1/y 
				loop ay [draw img compose [anti-alias off line (as-pair x y) (as-pair x: x + dx y)] y: y + dy]
			] 
			true [
				dx: pick [-1 1] df/x < 0 dy: df/y / ax: abs-x + 1 x: points/1/x y: points/1/y 
				loop ax [draw img compose [anti-alias off line (as-pair x y) (as-pair x y: y + dy)] x: x + dx]
			]
		]
	]] ? img
]
get-points: function [img [image!]][collect [repeat r img/size/y [repeat c img/size/x [if  img/(p: as-pair c r) = black [keep p]]]]]
show-points: function [img [image!] /cols cls][cls: any [cls 20] points: get-points img probe new-line/skip points true cls ()]

E.g.:
paint-line img [1x20 150x22 148x50 200x50 200x1 150x50]
hiiamboris
09:20or just don't turn off antialias :)
toomasv
09:21It's not same
hiiamboris
10:11![](https://i.gyazo.com/f7cf31839062ab1dff7ad7f3ac183eb8.png)
10:19question is, why is it not symmetric? ;)
toomasv
10:52Excellent tool!
But...
... what about following comparison? First is by my code above, second is anti-alias on, third anti-alias off, fourth just draw, all scaled by 3:
10:52[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/uwwX/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/uwwX/image.png)
10:53Third is with line-cap round as in yours.
hiiamboris
11:00it's a mess :)
11:00![](https://i.gyazo.com/242ac1784a32ef882f655679982f5b90.png)
11:03some implementation artifacts which are likely different across platforms
toomasv
11:08My code for above comparison:
bi: draw 200x50 []
paint-line bi [1x20 150x22 148x50 200x50 200x1 150x50]
gi: draw 200x50 []
draw gi [line 1x20 150x22 148x50 200x50 200x1 150x50]
hi: draw 200x50 []
draw hi [anti-alias off line-cap round line 1x20 150x22 148x50 200x50 200x1 150x50]
view [below 
    box 1000x200 draw [scale 3 3 image bi] 
    box 1000x200 draw [scale 3 3 image gi] 
    box 1000x200 draw [scale 3 3 image hi] 
    box 1000x200 draw [scale 3 3 line 1x20 150x22 148x50 200x50 200x1 150x50]
]
hiiamboris
11:10explore draw 200x50 [anti-alias off line 1x20 150x22 148x50 200x50 200x1 150x50] on GTK:
![](https://i.gyazo.com/c23f13a6fa49fafa83dddedd9b161f72.png)
11:11open source beats it
toomasv
11:15How does paint-line-d image look in your explore?
hiiamboris
11:17![](https://i.gyazo.com/f814e062d1827ab3b1a38294910a9e7f.png)
toomasv
11:18Thanks! Not too bad.
hiiamboris
11:18yeah pretty good :)
11:18off by a pixel though? I think it draws from pixel's center to pixel's center
11:18not from corner to corner
toomasv
11:20I devised it so as to match my taste for what I would expect from it ...
hiiamboris
11:20ok :)
11:24draw should be like this then for fairer comparison:
![](https://i.gyazo.com/d0a7b9f05cf315b2b443a9536402c0b4.png)
toomasv
11:41Ha, I like it more! :)
11:43But why do you need line-cap round?
hiiamboris
11:46just forgot to remove, it doesn't seem to do it's magic when line has >2 points
toomasv
11:48Ok, thanks.
11:50Maybe line-join?
11:53Naah..
Moppy_gitlab
15:52@toomasv Thank you for writing that. @ne1uno mentions this sort of thing happening in scale and rotation too. While for each one, a workaround is probably possible, at that point, you might as well "fix" anti-alias itself. I don't expect anyone to do that for something so specific and seemingly niche.
ne1uno
15:58nothing is broken, there is a physical limit of how you deal with limited pixels.
Moppy_gitlab
15:59what do you mean by that?
ne1uno
16:00vector drawing is another workaround. you describe shapes exactly, then render
Moppy_gitlab
16:01to draw a line that ends one pixel below the initial point, anti-alias off needs to be used, and its functionality needs to be added to by adding logic which breaks the line down into pieces.
16:02if anti-alias off had all that built into it(in a generalized way), such things wouldn't be necessary
hiiamboris
16:08> to draw a line that ends one pixel below the initial point, anti-alias off needs to be used

not true though
Moppy_gitlab
16:11[![alias.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/SBUM/thumb/alias.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/SBUM/alias.png)
16:12pretty much every feature was made with anti-alias being on in mind, since it's the default and all
16:14so to make a program where every feature is anti-alias off by default, a lot of workarounds are probably needed
hiiamboris
16:18write a mail to micro$oft :)
Moppy_gitlab
16:19does microsoft have something to do with this?
hiiamboris
16:20who else do you think writes Direct2D?
Moppy_gitlab
16:21mmm, I see. So it comes back to vector graphics.
16:26@pekr Did R2 have a built-in graphical facility?
16:27R3 view's draw dialect seems to have took a similar approach to Red
16:28http://rebol.com/docs/draw.html
16:29apparently R2's didn't even have anti-aliasing
pekr
16:39R2 had antialiasing, since it was based upon AGG library.
Moppy_gitlab
16:41Yeah, after trying it, I can see that.
16:41R3 has "new anti-aliasing"
16:47[![test3.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/jW3a/thumb/test3.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/jW3a/test3.png)
16:48
base-image: draw 200x200 []
draw base-image [anti-alias off line-width .5 line 0x20 150x21]
16:48I mean....
ushakovs_gitlab
17:05
res: [] parse "a a a a " [any [ (ch:[]) 2 ["a" skip (append ch "a") ] (append/only res ch) ] ]
length? res/1

I suppose res should be block of 2x2. But in fact it's block of 2x4.
What is wrong with my code?
hiiamboris
17:07https://github.com/red/red/wiki/[DOC]-Why-you-have-to-copy-series-values
endo64
22:22@GiuseppeChillemi here is my version:

run: function [cmd args /ref refs] [do probe reduce compose/deep [to path! [(cmd) (any [refs ()])] (args)]]

>> run 'copy [next "abc"]
[copy "bc"]
== "bc"

>> run/ref 'copy [next "abcabcabc" 2] [part]
[copy/part "bcabcabc" 2]
== "bc"

>> run/ref 'find ["testing" "t"] [last]
[find/last "testing" "t"]
== "ting"

toomasv
07:45@hiiamboris @Moppy_gitlab Seems that GDI handles anti-alias off much better than D2D. Tried Jan 18, 2021 build.
hiiamboris
09:56can't stop progress :/

Moppy_gitlab
03:47@toomasv What is GDI? Is this what you mean? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/gdi/windows-gdi
03:48I guess so if D2D is short for Direct 2D
toomasv
04:23Yes. Red used GDI/GDI+ in its Draw engine earlier, but switched to [Direct2D](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct2d/direct2d-portal) about year ago. But I don't know the low-level details, or benefits. Have noticed some drawbacks though, some things that used to work, do not any more.
pekr
05:59The main benefit is, that D2D is hw accelerated. I did some tests with the Particles demo and D2D provided a clear advantage in performance, whereas Direct / 3D stuff is known for having problems with precision ....

Moppy_gitlab
17:17wouldn't allowing users to choose the backend they use be better?
ne1uno
17:19you can with compiling
hiiamboris
17:22also GDI backend is not maintained
ne1uno
17:25I thought the old gui would use GDI. I think you need to edit in Config before you build. the and may itself still require Dx11 D2D
17:26Config: [gui-console?: yes red-help?: yes draw-engine: 'GDI+]
17:31%environment/console/GUI/old/gui-console.red
17:32also not fully maintained, has a few quirks
18:45you could build a gui console from before 2021 to see how GDI+ looks, modulo any bugs fixed since
Moppy_gitlab
18:51why not opengl, sdl2 or vulkan?
ne1uno
18:56linux console uses gtk.
hiiamboris
18:56those are 3d tech
Moppy_gitlab
19:25not exclusively
19:27There's also OpenVG
19:29@ne1uno huh? There's no mandate that terminal emulators need to use gtk
ne1uno
19:31yea, just for view I guess. I haven't used linux in awhile
19:33cairo
19:45there are some various gui wraps in the community repo? everyone should wrap a gui, at least once.
hiiamboris
19:48@ldci wrapped a lot of them already
ne1uno
20:04https://github.com/red/code/tree/master/Library/Vulkan
greggirwin
20:54The idea of having user-configurable back ends sounds great, but it adds another dimension to being cross platform. That's already hard enough. And just as platform differences lead to lowest-common-denominator limitations, so will each different graphics and audio back end. So you end up exposing things at a low level and code is now *far* less portable.
20:56To ease things for the user, Red relies on what the OS provides, and minimizes all other dependencies. And the more options we support, even at the OS level, the more we have to keep up with. Rebol learned this lesson the hard way. At one time it ran on 43 OSs, but unless you have a champion for each one, who is dedicated long term, features and robustness can easily become very uneven.
GiuseppeChillemi
21:43@endo64 I'll take a look at your version during the weekend.

Moppy_gitlab
01:59OpenGL is intended to be cross-platform, though I guess there's caveats to that. Nuklear's approach sounds pretty appealing, and like something Red would be well suited for.
>It was designed as a simple embeddable user interface for application and does not have any dependencies, a default render backend or OS window/input handling but instead provides a highly modular, library-based approach, with simple input state for input and draw commands describing primitive shapes as output. So instead of providing a layered library that tries to abstract over a number of platform and render backends, it focuses only on the actual UI.
02:00https://github.com/Immediate-Mode-UI/Nuklear
Oldes
09:44Problem with these immediate UIs is, that you must draw everything on each frame. So it is not the best choice for generic tools. It is fine as a debug overlay for a game, where you draw everything anyway.
11:27But when reading the [Nuklear documentation](https://immediate-mode-ui.github.io/Nuklear/doc/index.html), it is possible not to draw on each frame and instead call do_ui when needed.. and as it just fills buffer with draw commands, it could work even with current Red.
Moppy_gitlab
22:30
t: [
	p ["        " <p> 'val "        " </p> "^/^/"]
	img ["        " <img src= 'val] 
	alt [" " alt= 'val > "^/^/"]
]

probe t/p
probe t/img

why am I getting this output? 
["        " <p> 'val "        " </p> "^/^/"]
["        "
    <img src= 'val]
        alt [" " alt= 'val > "^/^/"
]
22:30I'd like probe t/img to give [" "
23:54img ["^-^-" val "^/^/"] so here, if I want to replace val with something else, because val is in a tag, replace isn't going to work.
greggirwin
23:57It works fine.
>> tag: <img src= val alt= val >
== <img src= val alt= val >
>> replace copy tag "val" "ABC...XYZ"
== <img src= ABC...XYZ alt= val >
>> replace/all copy tag "val" "ABC...XYZ"
== <img src= ABC...XYZ alt= ABC...XYZ >
Moppy_gitlab
23:57maybe to-tag?
23:57okay, I see

greggirwin
00:00Play with some other types as the replacement value, to see how they work. You can also see the source for replace, which is more involved than you might expect.
Moppy_gitlab
00:15this is more or less, what I was expected 
>> g: %ex.jpg
== %ex.jpg
>> tag: <img src= val alt= val >
== <img src= val alt= val >
>> replace tag "val" g
== <img src= ex.jpg alt= val >
>> replace tag "val" load g
== <img src= ex.jpg alt= make image! [708x1000 #{
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF...
00:16I've gotten the result I wanted out of the generator now.
00:17I don't know how pages are generally dynamically generated in "web 2.0" sites, but this is a start.
00:18Red as a "data-driven" language seems well suited for web dev considering that's mostly markup.
Oldes
07:55You are not making valid HTML tags!
Moppy_gitlab
08:02@Oldes what do you mean?
08:02seems to work
08:02page comes out fine
08:02form does all the work
Oldes
08:04make is not what you should use in a HTML page.
08:05Yes.. after all these years.. browsers are very forgiving... but that does not means, that you should not generate valid pages... you should find [some HTML validator](https://validator.w3.org/) to see what all is wrong.
Moppy_gitlab
08:08@Oldes I didn't actually use that
08:08that was just to see what would happen
08:09my actual output looks like this test
Oldes
08:10Ok then.
Moppy_gitlab
08:11any information on how to use
and stuff like that with Red?
08:13here maybe https://helpin.red/CGI-Processingwebforms.html
08:14seems to be about Rebol though
ne1uno
08:15there's a video series on youtube using parse for markdown and @Bitbegin has red-markdown on github. just for the basic proof of concept. they seem unfinished
08:18probably a form vrs mold explorer on http://gist.github print does form and probe does mold?
Moppy_gitlab
08:22
Red []

mid: function[
	element [series!] input
] [ 
	head insert skip copy element 2 reduce ["^/" input "^/"]
]

tag-mid: function [
	element [series!] inputs 
] [ 
	out: copy/deep element
	foreach input inputs [
		head replace out/2 "redval" input
	] 
	out
]

t: [
	doctype [<!DOCTYPE html> "^/"] 
	html ["" <html> </html>] 
	
	head ["^-" <head> "^-" </head> "^/"] 
	title ["^-^-" <title> "^-^-" </title>]
	
	body ["^-" <body> "^-" </body>]
	p ["^-^-" <p> "^-^-" </p> "^/^/"]
	img ["^-^-" <img src= redval alt= redval > "^/^/"] 
	styled-img ["^-^-" <img src=redval alt=redval style=redval> "^/^/"]

	form ["^-^-" <form action=redval method="Post"> "^-^-" </form> "^/^/"]
	input ["^-^-^-" <input type=redval id=redval name=redval value=redval> "^/"]

	br [<br>]
]


page: [
	t/doctype
	mid t/html reduce [
		mid t/head mid t/title "^-^-^-Example"
		mid t/body	;this is where all of a site's actual content goes 
			compose/deep 'contentx 
]]

form-page: function [a-page content] [
	replace a-page/5 'contentx [content]
	form reduce a-page 
]
08:22this is what I wrote. Best part is I can immediately understand it.
08:30for writing cgi scripts, this seems to be the most up to date source https://github.com/red/red/wiki/[DOC]-Using-Red-as-CGI
ne1uno
08:34maybe @rebolek html tools for form post or get
rebolek
08:35Yes, I have some html tools and also a dialect for producing HTML from Red.
Moppy_gitlab
09:06hmm, I'm not sure cgi is necessary.
09:06to use the tag and a reverse proxy
09:06not sure how I'd retrieve that information though
09:10http?
rebolek
09:14@Moppy_gitlab you need to be running HTTP server. You can run either some 3rd party webserver (Apache, lighttpd, nginx, ...) or use the IO branch and run Red webserver (but that’s experimental and unfinished yet).
Moppy_gitlab
09:14I've gotten nginx to run before
09:15getting something from and then sending it to a Red program is what I'm not sure of
rebolek
10:17see the wiki page you posted, setup Red as CGI and then use input to read POST data and printenv to read GET data. Or use wrappers in my HTTP tools that would make it easier.
dsunanda
16:42Simple question - I hope :) - how do I successfully reLOAD a SAVEd map?

m: make map! []
put m 'key make object! [data: 1]
save %m.txt m

m: load %m.txt
select m 'key      
== make      ;; <=== was hoping for the object
hiiamboris
16:45using Redbin
dsunanda
17:40Thanks! (It's easy when you know how :)

cosacam1
02:39Hi guys, yesterday I made a question in the wrong room. Here I go again: I've been working recently. I'm creating a face (so to call it) which is actually a scrollable list of checks and multiline texts. However, my red.exe has stopped working. I use REEDITOR-11 and it still compiles ok (so slowly!) but it can't interpret because red.exe is broken. I can't use the console any more for the same reason (actually the GUI console is red.exe). It opens and close inmediatly. I've been googling but all I find is same problem with cmd for many users. But cmd works fine in my laptop. Only red.exe doesn't. Any suggestions? -- Someone gave me this https://github.com/red/red/issues/5073 -- I did what stated there (use rebol to compile gui-console) here is rebol output -=== Red Compiler 0.6.4 ===-

Compiling F:\red\red\environment\console\GUI\gui-console.red ...
...compilation time : 6252 ms

Target: Windows

Compiling to native code...
...compilation time : 127928 ms
...linking time : 3389 ms
...output file size : 1226752 bytes
...output file : F:\red\red\gui-console.exe

== none --- but actually the gui-console.exe does absolutely nothing Help please
gltewalt:matrix.org
04:23Your anti-virus is squashing it
04:25Look in quarantined files
hiiamboris
09:45You need to compile consoles using command lines in some of the last posts on that issue for them to give you output.
Oldes
09:45@Moppy_gitlab with each use of "^-" you are loosing at least 8 bytes. You should use TAB instead. Or #"^-" (char instead of string).
hiiamboris
09:46If it's AV, wouldn't it delete the compiled GUI console?
Oldes
09:47@cosacam1 use CLI console instead and run it from command line. So in case of errors you should see the output.
gltewalt:matrix.org
12:49Nope, sometimes it just copies it to quarantine, or moves it on the first attempt to run the exe.
red.exe blipping and then quitting / disappearing is classic AV.
In days of yore it happened to me all the time.
ne1uno
13:00earlier version ran ok?
gltewalt:matrix.org
13:06Anyway it's easy to check. Turn off AV. Compile, Run.
Eliminate that possibility.
dsunanda
23:06False positives from AV is a total pain for small developers - eg: https://www.nirsoft.net/blog/2009/05/antivirus-companies-cause-big-headache.html
You probably don't need to turn it off entirely - you'll have options to whitelist folders or files.

Moppy_gitlab
03:05@Oldes good to know

gltewalt:matrix.org
12:42So... was I right? AV?
He disappeared
greggirwin
18:33That happens.

bubnenkoff
13:05How to measure time to get function execute time?
>> a: now
== 5-Mar-2022/16:02:16+03:00
>> b: now
== 5-Mar-2022/16:02:19+03:00
>> a - b
== 0
>> b - a
== 0


pekr
13:15you can use now/precise .... but we've got a dt(time-it) function for such purposes already. You can use source dtto look into what it is doing.
bubnenkoff
13:20thanks!
greggirwin
17:12If you use now or now/precise yourself, use difference instead of subtract.

But it looks like we have a regression in date math.
>> c: now
== 5-Mar-2022/10:11:10-07:00
>> d: now
== 5-Mar-2022/10:11:15-07:00
>> c - d
== -1
>> d - c
== -1

Should be 0. There was a date ticket fixed not long ago, which may be the cause.
17:13If someone can confirm, would you please open a ticket for it?
hiiamboris
17:18
>> a: now
== 5-Mar-2022/20:19:35+03:00
>> b: now
== 5-Mar-2022/20:19:37+03:00
>> a - b
== 0
>> b - a
== 0
>> about
Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 22-Feb-2022/5:26:32+03:00  commit #8126da7
>>
17:19hmm
>> a/zone: -7
== -7
>> b/zone: -7
== -7
>> a
== 5-Mar-2022/20:19:35-07:00
>> b
== 5-Mar-2022/20:19:37-07:00
>> a - b
== -1
>> b - a
== -1
17:20zone 0 seems to be the turning point
17:22it's also buggy in 0.6.4
17:23maybe it's correct, we just don't know how it works?
17:24R2 gives 0 in both cases though
greggirwin
17:25Interesting. Thanks for the R&D @hiiamboris. :+1:
17:26If the zone is the same for both dates, there should be a zero day difference.
hiiamboris
17:27so should the calculation be done in the zone of the 1st operand?
17:28or should it return truncated number of 24h intervals?
greggirwin
17:29That sounds reasonable, though my brain is split right now.
hiiamboris
17:32\* imagines how Gregg plugs his brain to a steam generator and extracts electricity :)
17:35R2 buggy as well?
>> a
== 1-Jan-2001/11:11:11-12:00
>> b
== 1-Jan-2001/11:11:11+13:00
>> a - b
== 0
>> b - a
== 0

either way this should not be zero
greggirwin
17:44Given two identical dates, with one being in zone +24 or -24, we're at +/-1. The real world range is -11 to +14 but Red wraps at +/-16, 16 being the same as 0. Truncating makes sense here, since you're max zone diff is modulo'd.

I don't think R2 is buggy, because the world is round. But Maybe. Let's ask some people in Samoa and Niue if they argue about which day it is. I might need a) coffee, b) to draft a viz, c) focus. I have a meeting in an hour so have to do some other work right now.
hiiamboris
17:48but -12 and +13 are 25 hours apart
17:48R2 seems to ignore TZ completely?
17:49I'll make an issue for further discussion
greggirwin
17:51> but -12 and +13 are 25 hours apart

Which isn't possible in a 24-hour day, given that the date is the same. If we leave a location at the same time, flying in opposite directions, how far apart are we 12.5 hours later?
hiiamboris
17:53I think you're missing critical part of timezone arithmetic here: if I'm living in +13 zone and you are in -11 zone, then when my date is Jan 1, your is Jan 2
17:54Though we're on the same meridian
greggirwin
18:01Ah, we may be crossing our lines. <ba-doom-cha!> For this arithmetic, do we want the difference in *dates* or number of *days*. This is where I need to be able to step back and think about how the results will be used to calc other dates, etc.
hiiamboris
18:06Exactly
18:06https://github.com/red/red/issues/5095
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:06Easier as a giant circular list
greggirwin
18:09Thanks for writing that up @hiiamboris. :+1:

@gltewalt:matrix.org, making a visual tool for this will also be good, to help people understand it. We've talked in the past about a time-clock app, and I still want to do that.
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:10I found it difficult back in the day, but then I've always been not so talented
18:12But timezones around the world are effectively a circular list, due to the whole globe thing.
hiiamboris
18:16most controversial region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Antarctica
18:17technically you can have midnight 10 times a day if you move from zone to zone :)
greggirwin
18:21And also the fun of daylight savings changes. Skip an hour or see the same one twice.

In this case, it *seems* like we can just convert to UTC and do the basic math, but that may be what happens internally now, which is bugged.
dsunanda
18:33An oldie, but perennially true -- Falsehoods programmers believe about time: https://gist.github.com/timvisee/fcda9bbdff88d45cc9061606b4b923ca
(and regarding the second item on that list - never forget Sweden once had 30 February).
gltewalt:matrix.org
19:15It gets even deeper
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/international-atomic-time.html
19:15Have to pick a "good enough" outcome
19:35Looks like /precise is rounding
ne1uno
20:12convert to julian if best guess more than 23 hour difference
20:26https://gist.github.com/luce80/96d48297f2307a713c918c68bf046520#file-dates-calcs-red

cosacam1
04:07hi guys again. well i had no AV running by the time I posted my issue. I couldn'y use CLI instead because it didn't showed up. Anyway I reinstalled W10 and here I am running again RED.exe succesfully. And I didn't dissapeared, I'm just a very busy man in several ways, and I don't have internet access all the time (I could have it using my phone but the screen is small and Gitter shows a purple ad which covers most of my screen) and blah, blah. besides, when I try to login Gitter via Github it always sends me a 6 digits code to my gmail account. So I need to enter gmail and read the code and enter it to Gitter. Why? I don't know. Ok I'm working. Thanks everybody. One question: how can I use size-text prior to defining the face. I mean- I wanna know the size a text will have in a future (non existing yet) face so I will create the face with a size where this text fits. I'm using fixedsys font so every char has the same width. Is there something in red like systemmetrics? Thanks
04:57Here's my code:
04:57Red [needs: view]

txt: "qwertyuiop asdfgh jkl zxcv bnm"
line-height: 2 * char-width: 12 ; in pixels
chars-per-line: 10
len: length? txt
lines: max 1 to-integer len / chars-per-line ; amount of lines used by txt, at least one
sz: as-pair (chars-per-line * char-width) (line-height * lines) ; size of txt in pixels

view [
text txt sz wrap font-name "Fixedsys"
]
bubnenkoff
07:45My favorite question -- is there any progress with ports. I still need http timeouts...
08:31My http application started to behave strangely.
The http responses are always two seconds or more.
I can't figure out what the reason is.
I created a minimal http server and checked on it.
I get:
>> print ttt.
0:00:02.04055

The server is https://gist.github.com/bubnenkoff/ca2ac7a0b3ed4522776050edfa31466c

Application:
http://localhost:5000/test

insert-query: [{}

ttt: dt [
	send-request/data to-url http://localhost:5000/test 'POST object [
		sql: to-json insert-query  
	] 
]

print ttt


For http requests I am using https://github.com/rebolek/red-tools/blob/master/http-tools.red

08:42* insert-query: [ {} ]
08:55it's seems that this issue is happens only with local http server. I tested it with public, and response time is normal:
do https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rebolek/red-tools/master/http-tools.red

insert-query: [{}]

ttt: dt [
	send-request/data/verbose  to-url http://www.thomas-bayer.com/sqlrest/ 'POST object [
		sql: to-json insert-query  
	] 
]
print ttt
09:02I have tested it on two PC. Behavior is same. Very slow access to local http server and fast to external.
Do you have any ideas?
toomasv
12:20@cosacam1 I played with the idea, but the result is probably a bit too complicated:
rt: none
get-size: function [text font letters /extern rt][
	replace/all text lf ""
	either rt [
		rt/text: text
		repend clear rt/data [as-pair 1 length? text font/1 font/2]
	][
		rt: rtd-layout probe compose/only [font (font) (text) /font]
		rt/size: 2000x600
	]
	sz: size-text rt
	lt: round/ceiling/to sz/x / length? text 1
	while [not empty? text: skip text letters][text: insert text lf]
	rt/text: head text
	x: letters * lt
	y: sz/y * round/ceiling/to sz/x / x 1
	rt/data/1/2: length? rt/text
	as-pair x y
]
txt: "qwertyuiop asdfgh jkl zxcv bnm"
sz: get-size txt ["Consolas" 9] 10
view [rich-text sz with [text: rt/text data: rt/data]]

cosacam1
18:08Thanks toomasv for your help. I've been studying it. It's interesting- 1) basically create a rich-text with the desired text and font; 2) use size-text to get the actual size in the rich-text; 3) insert linefeeds at 'letters' intervals (where letters is the desired amount of characters per line) 4) assign the modified text to the rich-text; 5) then getting and returning the actual size of the text after splitted in several lines. Some doubts: a) what is the '/font' at the end of rt: rtd-layout probe compose/only [font (font) (text) /font]; b) what are the refinements '/1/2' at rt/data/1/2: length? rt/text (I did ? rich-text and ? rtd-layout at CLI but I couldn't see any explanation of data). Finally, when I run your code, not all the text is shown. Thanks anyway. Meanwhile I managed to solve my problem yesterday. Here's my code: 

Red [needs: view]

txt: "qwertyuiop ASDFGH jklzxcv bnm"
line-height: char-width: 16      ; in pixels
chars-per-line: 10
len: length? txt
lines: max 1 round len / to float! chars-per-line        ; ammount of lines used by txt, at least one
sz: as-pair (chars-per-line * char-width) (1.6 * line-height * lines)     ; size of txt in pixels
; 1.6 :: leave some vertical space for descendant characters like fgjpqy
print [len lines sz]

view [    
    text txt sz yellow wrap font [name: "Consolas" size: line-height]
]
toomasv
19:05@cosacam1 You got it! I did it so the text can be splitted at any number of letters, not only on word borders. (Well, actually I did that too.)
You'll get answers to your questions in rich-text [doc](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/rtd.adoc). If not, ask away and I'll try to answer, if I can :)
cosacam1
21:21Thanks so much Toomasv

toomasv
04:14You are welcome!

djrondon
12:56Hi Folks, Is there a documentation with examples of read/as mime-types csv, json, etc.?
ne1uno
13:01@djrondon, try  https://github.com/red/red/wiki/Common-tasks-and-how-to-do-them-in-Red-(for-Python-programmers)
djrondon
13:06thanks @ne1uno , Cool! :-;
13:31if I download the latest builds for linux and red --cli, Do I need to have installed GTK?
`
13:31
Unable to init server: Could not connect: Connection refused

(console-2022-3-10-85264:2089400): Gtk-WARNING **: 13:29:13.824: cannot open display:
hiiamboris
14:01you need xserver running
14:03or build console without View support
djrondon
14:22so I have to compile. I thought that the option red --cli would allowed me just with the console without GUI. I don't have problems with the latest stable release, but with latest build.
14:22the latest stable version, red --cli is working
14:32I'm using the linux version, I think that latest build for linux is not prepared for the --cli option
ne1uno
14:34stable is years old, before gtk view. would need 2 executables: view and no view
djrondon
14:36I just want to use the console, because I don't have the GUI
ne1uno
14:43you can get non gui rebol from http://rebol.com/download-core.html
14:50https://github.com/red/red for source, the readme shows options for building or running the console
djrondon
15:14Ok. @ne1uno, I will do this.
15:33thanks @ne1uno . It worked!
21:17using the red console on linux, how can I give bold type as we can use in bash
\033[1mresults:\033[0m
echo -e "\033[1mresults:\033[0m"
hiiamboris
21:24red char codes are hexadecimal, not octal
21:24^(1B)
21:24or ^[
21:24https://w.red-lang.org/en/datatypes/char
djrondon
21:25Thanks

djrondon
01:36I compiled the console from the sources, but I couldn't compile my .red file with the new console, just with the old version.
ne1uno
02:08to compile, the build needs the sdk but it's no longer available. you can run red source from rebol.
02:24the error message could be improved
djrondon
02:25it's running ok, I just thought to generate the binaries with libRed
02:25but it's ok anyway
02:26I tried to run console -c -t Linux prog.red
02:26console is ok and up to date
hiiamboris
09:08You can use Rebol to compile, like you did to create the console itself.
ne1uno
14:02 header requires Needs: ['csv 'json] when compiling
hiiamboris
15:14it's already in the header
ne1uno
15:18Script Error: path element > header < does not apply to unset! type
15:18'csv
15:20no error at compile
hiiamboris
16:02you're on the old console?
ne1uno
16:05just tried again w/recent latest Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 8-Mar-2022/17:31:19-04:00 commit #b0e5493
16:06-r -t MsDos load-csv/header csv-data
16:06win10
hiiamboris
16:12https://github.com/red/red/blob/master/environment/console/CLI/console.red#L6
ne1uno
16:18why does the error go away when I add needs 'csv?
hiiamboris
16:48ㄟ( ▔, ▔ )ㄏ

bubnenkoff
19:10If I am compiling Red from sources will I would be able to use it fully as official builds? I an asking because I tried build odbc-branch, but I was not able to use result to compile my project because it did not recognized -c option and probable some others. Or I need to do some more manipulation to get own build work as I am expecting?
hiiamboris
19:19you can only compile consoles
19:19and you can use the rebol compiler directly from rebol
19:20the launcher (which recognizes -c) is not compiled, it's packaged with Rebol/SDK
mikeyaunish
20:45Didn't notice this change until now.
The last version of Red (that I have) that the reaction works properly is:
Red 0.6.3 for Windows built 24-May-2018/7:28:58-06:00 commit #ba9cabe
view [
    output: panel 200x200 gray
    button "load layout" [
        output/pane: layout/only load {			
            b1: button "move me" loose
            f1: field react [ f1/text: to-string b1/offset ] 
        }
    ]
]

To test it, click on the "load layout" button, then move the button labelled "move me". The text field should reflect the offset position of the button.
No idea if this was meant to be a permanent feature of react or not?
hiiamboris
21:28
>> dump-reactions
>>
21:30looks like reactions get cleaned up during pane change and never recovered?
21:30make an issue anyway, it's a great case to think on design

mikeyaunish
00:40@hiiamboris thanks for confirming. I will make an issue.
bubnenkoff
10:37> the launcher (which recognizes -c) is not compiled, it's packaged with Rebol/SDK

But that how red.exe works? I can compile all with them without Rebol
hiiamboris
10:39red.exe is an R2 script (red.r) wrapped into an exe
bubnenkoff
10:40Wow! I even can't imagine it!
10:41But why Rebol is still needed? What futures it have that Red have not?
hiiamboris
10:42temporary compiler that we are using is written in Rebol
bubnenkoff
10:44But what need to be implement to get Red self-hosted?
hiiamboris
10:45just porting it to Red is a task team does not see very useful right now (although I believe there was an attempt by @oldes but it didn't work)
bubnenkoff
10:47@hiiamboris and what status of ports branch? I have seen some activity there. When it would be merged?
hiiamboris
10:47plan I think is, when we rewrite the compiler, we make it solid, so it's a big task
10:48> @hiiamboris and what status of ports branch? I have seen some activity there. When it would be merged?

no idea :) you know how far plans usually go.. something happens along the way and the plan is scratched
Oldes
10:48I was porting it to Rebol3 actually. But I don't have time for it and no need as well.
hiiamboris
10:48thanks for clarifying
10:50anyway, Red changes a lot, so writing compiler in it right now would mean spending time maintaining it in a constantly changing environment
Oldes
11:08Even the compiler written in Rebol is changing quite a lot, so it would be waste of time to do some real porting when there is no will to use it anyway. One would have to constantly follow all changes. Not to mention, that there is zero documentation and just a very few comments in the source.
loziniak
12:14
>> change-dir probe %prj
%prj
== %/home/maciek/prj/
>> cd ..
== %/home/maciek/
>> cd probe %prj
*** Access Error: cannot open: %/home/maciek/probe/
*** Where: do
*** Near : args
*** Stack: cd change-dir cause-error

Is there a reason why cd acts like that?
12:22also, what is the reason for what-dir and get-current-dir to coexist?
hiiamboris
12:41@qtxie ?
12:42as for cd it's obviously so you can write cd prj as in bash
loziniak
12:59it's probably same as with pwd – meant only for console use?
hiiamboris

redredwine
16:42parse question - If I have a string that already contains " " , how do i set a rule to include the quote in the string? e.g <a href="blablabla"> . I think rebol allows us to use { <a href="blablabla">}. but not sure how to handle that in Red.
hiiamboris
16:46have you tried the same in Red?

bubnenkoff
16:11Is it possible to get selected text from area?
hiiamboris
16:14try view [area "a^/bc^/def^/1234" rate 1 on-time [attempt [probe copy/part face/text face/selected + 0x1]]]
bubnenkoff
16:23thanks!
toomasv
17:12@hiiamboris Dunno, this didn't do a thing for me on W10 :flushed:
But this did:
view [area "a^/bc^/def^/1234" rate 1 focus with [selected: 1x1] 
    on-time [if (length? face/text) = face/selected/2: face/selected/2 + 1 [
        probe "done" face/rate: none
]]]
hiiamboris
17:14have you selected any text for it to "do the thing"? ;)
toomasv
17:27Ha, something is happening :baby:
hiiamboris
17:33:+1:

redredwine
00:26@hiiamboris i tried the {} again today, it works. Thanks. Not sure what happened the other day.

GiuseppeChillemi
07:07How could I know if a datatype is part of a superset datatype? I mean: how could I know if integer! is part of number!?
rebolek
07:08find number! integer!
cloutiy
15:16Interesting
GiuseppeChillemi
20:36I don't understand why of used in a block, I have to get it, otherwise I could use it directly.
hiiamboris
22:12then you probably do not understand that *block is not evaluated*

GiuseppeChillemi
09:20And where is written that a datatype is evalated before being interpreted? I have always thought of it as a terminal value.
09:22@rebolek
> find number! integer!

Is there a way to query integer for its parent without searching all datatypes?
rebolek:matrix.org
09:25What do you mean by "evaluated before interpreted"? integer! is a word! that evaluates to integer datatype.
GiuseppeChillemi
09:34Integer! has been for me always a datatype!, I mean a type of its own with different characteristics than word! because I have never read what you Rebolek and Hiiamboris are writing. It is written nowhere in Rebol Core doc. I am 20 in Rebol and i have never encountered anything about this fact.
09:37And when you read here: http://www.rebol.com/docs/words/wtypeq.html that /word - Returns the datatype as a word you think that the datatype is a "datatype" and not a word and then if you need it as a word, you must use /word refinement in type?
rebolek:matrix.org
09:37Ok, let me show you something. x: 1. What is type of x?
GiuseppeChillemi
09:38Set-word belonging to the words! superset?
rebolek:matrix.org
09:40I wrote x so it's word!, but ok. And now: x!: 1 it's still word!, right?
09:42So why integer! should be different? It's a word, don't let the exclamation mark confuse you, is just a convention that works holding datatype value end with it.
GiuseppeChillemi
09:44Yes, it was the exclamation mark that has led me to think it was not a word! but a datatype!. It's because of the symbolic decoding of the brain...
09:49But, is there a way to let Red recognize mydatatypename! as datatype when using type?
rebolek:matrix.org
09:52For example mydatatypename!: :integer!
GiuseppeChillemi
09:53A whole world opens.
09:54Is there any extra info I should know about using datatypes? Like the magic of find number! integer!?
hiiamboris
10:21typeset is a kind of bitset, no other magic
endo64
11:01Just type number! in the console and you see it:
>> number!
== make typeset! [integer! float! percent!]

or better, type >> ? typeset!
GiuseppeChillemi
16:55@hiiamboris so, no special accessor?
hiiamboris
17:12what accessor?
greggirwin
19:08> Is there any extra info I should know about using datatypes? Like the magic of find number! integer!?

You can think of it *kind of* like find on a series, but more accurately, as @hiiamboris noted, like find on a bitset.

We should into to [bitset docs](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/datatypes/bitset.adoc) on pick/poke/find and things like enbasing.
19:12> But, is there a way to let Red recognize mydatatypename! as datatype when using type?

My canonical example for this is aliasing issue! as hashtag!. You have the type name and the type query func (i.e. issue! and issue?), which can be quite usable in many cases, but may be a liability in the grand scheme of things.
GiuseppeChillemi
21:06What could go wrong?
greggirwin
22:08It's not that something would "go wrong", as this is just another flexible part of Red. What I mean by being a liability is that programming in the large using *any* trick means more coordination. But I do think that the added meaning can be useful, especially in dialects.

hiiamboris
19:35Have you guys ever needed or used this function?
>> ? distribute
USAGE:
     DISTRIBUTE amount weights limits

DESCRIPTION: 
     Distribute a numeric AMOUNT across items with given WEIGHTS. 
     DISTRIBUTE is a function! value.

ARGUMENTS:
     amount       [number!] "Any nonnegative number."
     weights      [block!] {Zero for items that do not receive any part of AMOUNT.}
     limits       [block!] {Maximum part of AMOUNT each item is able to receive; NONE if unlimited.}

>> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [2e9 2e9 2e9]
== [25 50 25]
>> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [99 99 99]
== [25 50 25]
>> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [99 40 99]
== [30 40 30]
>> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [99 40 20]
== [40 40 20]
>> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [30 40 20]
== [30 40 20]
>> distribute 100 [1 0 1] [99 40 20]
== [80 0 20]
19:37I'm just curious because I wrote it for Spaces, but it looks like something that *can* be generally useful.

GiuseppeChillemi
00:20I have neverused it, but It resembles a function that I have just written to calculate the column size for listviews, after scanning the column data.
toomasv
08:32I haven’t used it, but looks very interesting.
bubnenkoff
08:42How to make yellow panel take full width?
view  [
	panel red [ ]
	panel blue [ ]
	return 
	panel yellow []
]
hiiamboris
09:15'panel 210 yellow' or smth like this.
bubnenkoff
09:18Only way to set absolute size?
toomasv
12:36Use parent/size
12:36With with
hiiamboris
12:40Alternatively, with https://gitlab.com/hiiamboris/red-elastic-ui you can write:
view elastic [panel red [] panel blue [] return panel #fill yellow []]
and also get automatic resizing if you enable it in flags
ne1uno
13:10react [face/size/x: face/parent/size/x - 15] add after the item. I don't really understand how this works and it might miss some resize events
hiiamboris
13:28should be - 20?
GiuseppeChillemi
16:41While experimenting with select/skip I have told to my self, lets see if...

>> type? select/skip [a b c none] 'c 1
== word!
>> type? get select/skip [a b c none] 'c 1
== none!


And yes, it is!
hiiamboris

djrondon
00:58Is there any jwt library for red?
greggirwin
01:04I think @rebolek started one, as did I. Need to dust it off and see what state it's in.
01:06[json-web-token.red](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/wKD6/json-web-token.red)
djrondon
01:42thanks @greggirwin ;-)
rebolek
05:44@djrondon Yes, I have JWT library, I’m not sure if it’s online.
planetsizecpu
07:13> Have you guys ever needed or used this function?
> 
> >> ? distribute
> USAGE:
>      DISTRIBUTE amount weights limits
> 
> DESCRIPTION: 
>      Distribute a numeric AMOUNT across items with given WEIGHTS. 
>      DISTRIBUTE is a function! value.
> 
> ARGUMENTS:
>      amount       [number!] "Any nonnegative number."
>      weights      [block!] {Zero for items that do not receive any part of AMOUNT.}
>      limits       [block!] {Maximum part of AMOUNT each item is able to receive; NONE if unlimited.}
> 
> >> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [2e9 2e9 2e9]
> == [25 50 25]
> >> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [99 99 99]
> == [25 50 25]
> >> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [99 40 99]
> == [30 40 30]
> >> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [99 40 20]
> == [40 40 20]
> >> distribute 100 [1 2 1] [30 40 20]
> == [30 40 20]
> >> distribute 100 [1 0 1] [99 40 20]
> == [80 0 20]
>


@hiiamboris I never used distribute but I know at least one use case where it fits perfect: stock piling. When you have some number of items on one store location and have to distribute it to other locations wich have their own space limitations. As an example imagine a 40ft container filled with fencing grid rolls, to distribute along the shelves of a warehouse wich already have other older rolls. Userful, if you can subtract from the shelves location max loading value the already existing stock, that number would be the max value by location for the distribute func.
bubnenkoff
08:27Am I right understand that if I am using throw function on success should always return none at the end?
foo: function[] [ print "foo1" if (x > 1) [throw "x is greather than one"] return none]
result: catch [ foo ]
probe result

hiiamboris
08:36Yes.
08:37@planetsizecpu thanks. Indeed, I'm using it after subtracting the current values too.
GalenIvanov
10:21@hiiamboris The closest thing to distribute I remember I needed was in this [Pie-chart-direct-interface](https://github.com/GalenIvanov/Pie-chart-direct-interface). It's a good function to have.
hiiamboris
10:22dead link
10:22or private?
GalenIvanov
10:23oh, sorry - a private one
10:25Do you see it now?
hiiamboris
10:26yes, thanks
10:27so there was a minimum limit for each slice?
10:31well I guess pie charts can use a simpler algorithm, just divide the circle
GalenIvanov
10:31The minimum is 1% of the circle, since the sectors indicate the contribution of the 5 possible types to 100%
10:31Yes, indeed
hiiamboris
10:32an interesting use case anyway, thanks
GalenIvanov
10:32:+1:
hiiamboris
10:33also interesting is how to make slices logarithmic in scale
bubnenkoff
10:49What is the proper way to not break loop, but just stop iteration and continue it from same place?
foo: function[] [
	foreach el ["aa" "bb" "cc" "dd" "ee"] [
		if (el = "bb") [
			; user need do some action in UI before continue iteration
		]
	]
]
foo
hiiamboris
10:51in existing UI or you can show a new dialog?
bubnenkoff
10:52In existing
hiiamboris
10:57
flag: off
view [
	base yellow "click to start loop"
		on-up [
			foreach el [1 2 3 4 5] [
				print el
				if el = 2 [
					while [not flag][do-events/no-wait]
				]
			]
		]
	base blue "click to continue" on-up [flag: true]
]
bubnenkoff
10:59Thanks for example!!
hiiamboris
11:01it's not a good practice though, you should weigh if it's necessary
bubnenkoff
11:05what problems this approach have?
11:05infinity loop?
hiiamboris
11:11for example, you can reenter into this loop many times by clicking yellow base
11:11of course you can work around that, but such code flow will be hard to predict and debug
11:13also, idk what will happen if you close the window before loops finish :)
11:13maybe it'll work, maybe not
bubnenkoff
11:19So it's better to display modal window?
hiiamboris
bubnenkoff
11:49ok. Is it possible to display same list in main and new modal view?
view [
	list: text-list data ["aaa" "bbb" "ccc"] [ print list/selected ]

 	button "modal" [ 
		 view [ 
		   list ; I want to display same list
		 ]
	]
]

hiiamboris
12:03view [text-list data list/data]
bubnenkoff
12:04thanks!
greggirwin
17:28Distribute is a very nice func. I haven't used it exactly, because things needed to be in order, but I did a disc production system that needed to group data and then sort by what kind of disc to use (CD or DVD).

bubnenkoff
17:39Is it possible to display non-modal window/zone in main app window?
hiiamboris
18:15what do you mean by that?
ne1uno
18:17docked? you can make a group or panel loose

bubnenkoff
07:07I mean creating not blocking dialog. For example ask user about some action without creation new window
dsunanda
08:41@bubnenkoff You probably want to use a technique like sub-panels - a way to switch in and out parts of the window display. The old Rebol website has some examples - you need to edit these very slightly as Rebol's VID dialect is not quite the same as Red's (eg VH2 --> H2 etc)
http://www.rebol.com/how-to/subpanels.html
endo64
08:58you can set a layout's parent to a window to show it inside:
layout/parent [button "ok" [unview]] view/no-wait [size 300x300] none do-events
hiiamboris
09:09Or make a hidden panel in advance. Then show it when you want.
bubnenkoff
16:51Thanks!
I also have plan to do small app for creation block-schemes. Which dialect it's better to use? Draw? Or there is something more suitable?
hiiamboris
17:02https://gitter.im/red/red/gui-branch?at=6244113409092523184bb0cf
greggirwin
17:04All those ideas would make a nice article.
bubnenkoff
17:17> https://gitter.im/red/red/gui-branch?at=6244113409092523184bb0cf

Thanks, but if diagram dialect is not in active developing, than how I could try to solve this problem?
And which dialects have guarantees to have community support in future?
greggirwin
17:19> And which dialects have guarantees to have community support in future?

Those that are included in standard Red releases.
hiiamboris
17:48@bubnenkoff still better to fix it than to roll your own ;)

bubnenkoff
09:43Does crossbuild works now? I want to build GUI app from Windows for Linux
ldci
09:46@bubnenkoff Yes. I’m writting apps under macOS and can cross-compile for Windows and Linux without problems: just red -t target filenane :)
rebolek
11:10It always worked.
bubnenkoff
14:49
>> a
*** Script Error: a has no value
*** Where: catch
*** Near : a
*** Stack:  

>> if not unset? 'a  [print "value is exists"]
value is exists
>> 
>> if (not unset? 'a)  [print "value is exists"]
value is exists
>>

Why next code is show that value is exists, while it's not?
hiiamboris
14:52help unset?
14:53also source unset?
ldci
15:07@bubnenkoff. Using ‘a creates a word. Type? 'a —> word, but a has no value
bubnenkoff
15:57> @bubnenkoff. Using ‘a creates a word. Type? 'a —> word, but a has no value

Ah! Thanks!

bubnenkoff
09:29I have block values for substitition in next format:
mydata: [ [1 "Dopey"] [2 "Doc"] [3 "Bashful"] [4 "Sneezy"] [5 "Happy"] [6 "Grumpy"] [7 "Sleepy"] ]


The function that accept prepared statment is accept data as:
insert snowwhite [
    "INSERT INTO Dwarves (Num, Name) VALUES (?, ?)"
    [1 "Dopey"] [2 "Doc"] [3 "Bashful"] [4 "Sneezy"] [5 "Happy"] [6 "Grumpy"] [7 "Sleepy"]
]


remember me please how to make from mydata list of blocks? to get:
[1 "Dopey"] [2 "Doc"] [3 "Bashful"] [4 "Sneezy"] [5 "Happy"] [6 "Grumpy"] [7 "Sleepy"]



foo: function[blk] [
	probe blk
 ]
foo mydata


hiiamboris
10:23mydata is already a block of blocks
bubnenkoff
10:27So I can simply pass it without unwrapping?
hiiamboris
10:33try it
bubnenkoff
11:15
insert data-insert-statement reduce [ 
    insert-part ; INSERT INTO lots ("purchaseNumber", "lotNumber", "deliveryTerm", "currency_code") VALUES (?,?,?,?)
    
    ["0373200040814000009" 1 "Some text here" "USD"] ; works
]


do not works:
insert data-insert-statement reduce [ 
    insert-part
    prepared-values-part ; [["0373200040814000009" 1 "Some text here" "USD"]]
]

error:
*** Script Error: ODBC error: ["07002" 32 {The # of IPD parameters 1 < 4 the # of parameter markers}]
*** Where: ctx||610~execute-statement
*** Near : param


So it seems that it's need it not as block of blocks
hiiamboris
11:52seems so
gurzgri
12:52First form: Simple block, gets reduced
insert statement simple: ["SELECT INTO table VALUES (?, ?, ?)" a b c]

Second form: Param block, won't get reduced, therefor e.g. compose/deep
insert statement block: compose/deep ["SELECT INTO table VALUES (?, ?, ?)" [(a) (b) (c)]]

Third form: Param "array", won't get reduced
insert statement array: compose/deep ["SELECT INTO table value (?, ?, ?)" [(a1) (b1) (c1)] [(a2) (b2) (c2)] [(a3) (b3) (c3)]]

Strictly speaking, the second form is no form on it's own, it's just a special case of the third form / array form with array length of 1.
12:55But pretty much all of this is documented in https://github.com/gurzgri/red/blob/odbc/environment/schemes/odbc.md I pointed you to already, it's in the "Parameter Arrays" section.
13:57@bubnenkoff Sorry, my bad - I see now that in private chat I edited your code sample such that there was this "inner outer block" ["SELECT ..." [[...] [...] [...]]] (sic!) which I didn't noticed w/o beeing able to actually run the code. At least the documentation is correct on this.
meijeru
15:21For a toy implementation of the WORDLE game (see [here](https://wordlegame.org/)) I would need to print letters in color on the console. I looked at rich text, but that seems to be for the GUI only. How can I use ANSI escape codes?
gurzgri
15:25print "^[[32mTest"
meijeru
15:27Tried that, didn't work!
gurzgri
15:29Works in Windows Terminal, might not work in other consoles.
15:30~~Works in cmd.exe, too.~~ My cmd.exe runs in Windows Terminal, too, probably that's why it works.
meijeru
15:36I tried in the Red console. @Qtxie what can you tell me?
hiiamboris
15:38@meijeru your OS version?
15:40https://superuser.com/questions/413073/windows-console-with-ansi-colors-handling/1050078#1050078
meijeru
15:44@hiiamboris W11
hiiamboris
15:45No idea there. On W10 ANSI is supported by default I think.
meijeru
15:46@hiiamboris My desire is to have colors etc. show up in the Red console, not in the Windows console.
hiiamboris
15:48In Red GUI console?
15:48I don't think it's supported.
15:54Use CLI or reinvent it.
greggirwin
17:35There is experimental work on syntax highlighting in the Red console (IIRC), but that will probably be harder than other approaches right now.
bubnenkoff
18:35> @bubnenkoff Sorry, my bad - I see now that in private chat I edited your code sample such that there was this "inner outer block" ["SELECT ..." [[...] [...] [...]]] (sic!) which I didn't noticed w/o beeing able to actually run the code. At least the documentation is correct on this.

You mean that it's impossible to pass list of blocks like? [ [] [] [] ]
But I have problem to generate blocks for passing without nesting. Because I do not understand how to pass data to statement
Or I need way to deblock it to make it as statement expected it.
gurzgri
18:48Problems exists so that people start looking out for solutions. And the answer to that particular problem you are able to find out by yourself by now. Experiment in the console, help yourself with help. Even if that may cost a bit of *your* time, it pays back with more experience.

ThatOneAlexDev
15:04Hey guys, pretty new to red. What's an effective way to concatenate multiple strings? In Java, i simply have the "+" operator. In red, i saw "append", but i'd have to type that for every new part. What's the best way to do that?
hiiamboris
15:09Hi and welcome @ThatOneAlexDev :)
Try ? rejoin
ThatOneAlexDev
15:12Ohh rejoin works without a flaw, thanks!
greggirwin
16:11Welcome @ThatOneAlexDev !
ThatOneAlexDev
18:53Hey thanks!

ThatOneAlexDev
18:58What does it mean if i have a file and there is just "context [...]" without any assignments? I often see a file start with "context [...]", where the context block contains the whole code. Does it just create an object with the file name or what does that do?
18:59https://i.imgur.com/RwOhZyz.png
18:59like that
18:59Couldn't find it in any tutorial
dsunanda
19:13@ThatOneAlexDev If you literally, have a file that begins with CONTEXT, you can load it and assign it to a word.....Simple example:
write %test.txt "context [a: 1 b: 2 c: func [][print a + b]]"
x: do load %test.txt
x/c
== 3  ; Result!

It's a way of saving and reloading Red data structures.
gurzgri
19:14"anonymous" contexts these are. They are a common idiom often used as poor man's module system, probably setting (exporting) only selected global words but keeping most of their inner parts hidden in the context to not litter the global / the calling context.
ThatOneAlexDev
19:16Thanks!

ThatOneAlexDev
13:32What's the best way to extract the host of an url? For example: If the input is "https://example.site/users/10", i'd like to extract the host "example.site". I could not find it in any of the docs i'm using.
13:33What are good docs anyway? Any suggestions?
13:33Red by example is pretty useful, and helpin.red
13:33Idk if there is anything better
13:33besides looking at the source code
hiiamboris
13:33
>> probe decode-url https://example.site/users/10
make object! [
    scheme: 'https
    user-info: none
    host: "example.site"
    port: none
    path: %/users/
    target: %10
    query: none
    fragment: none
    ref: https://example.site/users/10
]
13:34> What are good docs anyway? Any suggestions?

https://github.com/red/red/wiki/Beginner's-FAQ
cloutiy
14:36@ThatOneAlexDev another option once you have a bit more experience with red is extracting with parse
ThatOneAlexDev
15:06Yeah i've looked at that, just wanted to see if there is something implemented already, and decode-url is perfect
greggirwin
16:47@ThatOneAlexDev something else you can do is use help with partial keys, or strings. e.g. ? url or ? "url". Use help (? is a shortcut for it) by itself for more hints on how to use it.

bubnenkoff
12:09Does map have any guaranies about ordering elements?
rebolek
12:59No. It’s implementation dependent and you shouldn’t rely on any current order.
hiiamboris
13:23@bubnenkoff hash! does
bubnenkoff
14:13thanks!!

bubnenkoff
09:36Is sees that reduce do not evaluate a path:
>> data: [a: [b: 1 c: "hello" d: []] e: 123]
== [a: [b: 1 c: "hello" d: []] e: 123]
>> reduce to-path [data a/b]
== none

>> data/a/b ; but direct access to path work
== 1
hiiamboris
09:42[data a b]
bubnenkoff
09:51But why reduce to-path [data a/b] do not work? the spelling of result look like normal
hiiamboris
09:52because second item in this path is a/b
09:52do you have a/b in data?
bubnenkoff
09:54ah....
15:52I need help with fixing algorithm.
This function should find return list of blocks before current tag.

data: [
    purchaseNumber: "" 
    lots: [
		lot: [
			lotNumber: 1 
			customers: [
				customer: [
					customer_regNum: "" 
				] 
			] 
			lotMaxPrice: none
			deliveryTerm: {} 
			currency_code: "" 
			objects: [
				object: [
					price: none
				]


			]
		]
	] 
    tag: ""
]


find-path-to-node: function[data node-name /parent] [
    stack: copy []
    current-tag-level: 0 
    level: 0 
    isFound: false
    walk: function [data /extern isFound level current-tag-level] [ 

        foreach [key value] data [
            if block? value [
                level: level + 1 ; increment level

                either ((to-lit-word key) = node-name) [ ; if find needed node
                    either parent [ ; finding parent 
                        isFound: true
                        return stack ; return from walk with result
                    ] [
                        isFound: true
                        append stack to-word key ; add to stack and exit from walk
                        return stack ; 
                    ]
                ] [
                    append stack to-word key ; needle node still not found add current node to stack
                ]

                print ["level:" level " key:" key ] 

                walk value

                level: level - 1
                
            ] 
        ]
    ]

    walk data

    either isFound [
        return stack
    ] [
        return none
    ]
    
]


probe find-path-to-node data 'object


For example for object parents is: lots lot objects object.

I'm stuck and can't figure out how to fix the feature. Obviously it's supposed to remove blocks of the same level so they don't go into the chain.

I am getting next result:

probe find-path-to-node data 'object
[lots lot customers customer objects object]


customers customer should not be here, but I can't understand when I should remove them.






hiiamboris
15:54@bubnenkoff remove last item from the stack once you leave the scope
15:55and just an advice: use Parse
bubnenkoff
15:57> and just an advice: use Parse

Why? I do not think that code in parse would be more readable\short?
hiiamboris
15:58I have a feeling it can be *much* simpler with Parse, because it provides recursion out of the box.
bubnenkoff
15:58> @bubnenkoff remove last item from the stack once you leave the scope

Please show me right place, I tried, but every time I am getting wrong result
hiiamboris
15:58before level: level - 1
15:58only if you haven't found it
bubnenkoff
16:01
if (isFound = false) [
     take/last stack
   ]
                
  level: level - 1

Wrong result:
probe find-path-to-node data 'customer
[lots lot customers customer objects object]

hiiamboris
16:06you are continuing to walk even though you have isFound = true
bubnenkoff
16:19So I need not only do return but also to do exit from function?
hiiamboris
16:24just check isFound
16:25at walk start for example
bubnenkoff
16:27Still not working:
find-path-to-node: function[data node-name /parent] [
    stack: copy []
    current-tag-level: 0 
    level: 0 
    isFound: false
    walk: function [data /extern isFound level current-tag-level] [ 

        foreach [key value] data [
            if block? value [
                level: level + 1 ; increment level

                either ((to-lit-word key) = node-name) [ ; if find needed node
                    either parent [ ; finding parent 
                        isFound: true
                        return stack ; return from walk with result
                        ; exit
                    ] [
                        isFound: true
                        current-tag-level: level
                        append stack to-word key ; add to stack and exit from walk
                        return stack ; 
                        ; exit
                    ]
                ] [
                    
                    append stack to-word key ; needle node still not found add current node to stack
                ]

                print ["level:" level " key:" key "isFound:" isFound] 

                
                if (isFound = false) [
                    walk value
                    take/last stack
                ]
                
                level: level - 1
                
            ] 
        ]
    ]

    walk data

    either isFound [
        return stack
    ] [
        return none
    ]
    
]


probe find-path-to-node data 'object
hiiamboris
16:33what does it return?
bubnenkoff
16:33
probe find-path-to-node data 'object
== [lots]
hiiamboris
16:34well, scratch this and start over then :)
bubnenkoff
16:35I wouldn't have asked if I hadn't tried this
hiiamboris
16:35use Parse now! ;)
bubnenkoff
16:38I am trying to rewrite old solution from Parse. It's work, but I do not like it really. Maybe it can be improved, but I prefer use Parse only when I am working with text data. Btw old solution code:
find-pos: function[xdata w /parent] [ 
    word-founded?: false
    current_level: 1 
    tag_level: 1

    stack: copy []
    parse xdata rule: [
         some [
              set-word! [integer! | string! | 'none ] 
            | ahead [set-word! block!] ahead [ set block-name to block! ]    [fail]  
            | ahead block!    (  if (not word-founded?)   [ append stack to-word block-name ]   )  (if find stack w [word-founded?: true])   into rule ( if (not word-founded?)  [ stack: remove-last stack ]   )
            | skip

         ]
    ]

    if word-founded? [ 
        if parent [ either (length? stack) > 1 [ ; 
                                                return head clear back tail copy stack ; 
                                             ] [ ; 
                                                ; return first copy stack
                                                return  [] ; 
                                              ] 
                    ] 
        return stack ; 
        ]

]
hiiamboris
16:38although I think it's almost correct, you just have append in the wrong place
bubnenkoff
16:39Really? But it's working!
hiiamboris
16:39no, I mean the other one that returns [lots]
bubnenkoff
16:42> no, I mean the other one that returns [lots]

You mean this append:
append stack to-word key ; needle node still not found add current node to stack

?
hiiamboris
16:43although wait
16:44what a mess :)
16:47your walk may set isFound to true, and then still evaluate take/last
bubnenkoff
16:51take/last is evaluate only isFound is false
if (isFound = false) [
  walk value
  take/last stack
]
hiiamboris
16:54nope, think again
bubnenkoff
16:55oh, yes, I understand, but what do you suggest?
hiiamboris
16:55check again?
bubnenkoff
16:56> check again?

Which variant?
hiiamboris
16:56I mean check isFound
bubnenkoff
16:59Again wrong result
if (isFound = false) [
        walk value
         if(isFound = false) [
               take/last stack
        ]  
 ]

probe find-path-to-node data 'customer
== [lots lot customers customer objects]
hiiamboris
17:04yeah because your last append doesn't check isFound
bubnenkoff
17:06@hiiamboris cool!!! Many thanks!!! It's seems that it works!
find-path-to-node: function[data node-name /parent] [
    stack: copy []
    current-tag-level: 0 
    level: 0 
    isFound: false
    walk: function [data /extern isFound level current-tag-level] [ 

        foreach [key value] data [
            if block? value [
                level: level + 1 ; increment level

                either ((to-lit-word key) = node-name) [ ; if find needed node
                    either parent [ ; finding parent 
                        isFound: true
                        return stack ; return from walk with result
                    ] [
                        isFound: true
                        current-tag-level: level
                        append stack to-word key ; add to stack and exit from walk
                        return stack ; 
                    ]
                ] [
                    if (isFound = false) [
                        append stack to-word key ; needle node still not found add current node to stack
                    ]
                ]

                print ["level:" level " key:" key "isFound:" isFound] 

                
                if (isFound = false) [
                    walk value
                    if(isFound = false) [
                          take/last stack
                    ]  
                ]
              
                level: level - 1    
                
            ] 
        ]
    ]

    walk data

    either isFound [
        return stack
    ] [
        return none
    ]
    
]

probe find-path-to-node data 'object


But I really still thinking that it's easier to read than Parse
hiiamboris
17:08I think both versions are very ugly :)
17:08you know what, try to write it using throw and catch in place of return
17:08good exercise for you
bubnenkoff
17:12ok, thanks, I will try, I think I understand why do you suggest it -- to prevent multiple check of isFound?
hiiamboris
17:13yes, logic will be simpler and more predictable
bubnenkoff
17:31ok, but before I tried to introduce current-tag-level and play with it. It was bad idea? I thought I can compare current level and some another level or something like it
hiiamboris
17:43I don't think you need level there at all

toomasv
06:01@bubnenkoff One posssibility in spirit of your original approach:
find-path-to-node: function [data node-name /parent] [
    stack: copy []
    level: 0 
    isFound?: no
    walk: func [data] [ 
        foreach [key value] data [
            case [
                node-name = to-word key [
                    isFound?: yes
                    if not parent [append stack to-word key]
                    return stack
                ] 
                block? value [
                    level: level + 1
                    append stack to-word key
                    walk value 
                    if isFound? [return stack]
                    clear at stack level
                    level: level - 1
                ]
            ]
        ]
    ]
    walk data
    if isFound? [stack]
]
06:22Instead of return stack just break is enough in both cases.
bubnenkoff
07:16As usually Perfect!! Thanks)
toomasv
07:38You are welcome!

bubnenkoff
12:36I need any workaround for this bug https://gitter.im/red/bugs?at=625919878db2b95f0ab88c99

[["aa" "cc"] ["aa" "aa"] ["aa" "aa"] ["aa" "bb"] ["aa" "aa"]]

gurzgri
13:16Something like
uniquify: function [values] [
	singles: make hash! length? values
	foreach value values [any [
		find/only singles value
		append/only singles value
	]]
	to block! singles
]
13:17Untested.
hiiamboris
13:20just sort it and remove all sequential duplicates
bubnenkoff
14:34thanks!
greggirwin
17:54Here's one I did a loooong time ago, before Red had set-oriented functions.
unique: function [
	"Returns a copy of the series with duplicate values removed."
	series [series!]
;	/case "Perform a case-sensitive search"
;	/skip "Treat the series as fixed size records"
;		size [integer!]
][
    res: make series length? series
    foreach val series [
        if not find/only res val [append/only res val]
    ]
    res
]

rsheehan
01:53Is there any way to discover the cursor position in an area?
gltewalt:matrix.org
03:17offset-to-character, character-to-offset
I think 🤔
bubnenkoff
07:52What is my error? I am trying to move last element to first position with move
x: [1 2 3 4 5]
probe move/part x x 5 1 
[1 2 3 4 5]
rebolek
07:54The error is that both your positions are at the start of the block.
07:54
>> x: [1 2 3 4 5]
== [1 2 3 4 5]
>> head move back tail x x
== [5 1 2 3 4]

07:55back tail x will point to the last element
toomasv
08:02@rsheehan With Red/System code only. Here is [example for Windows](https://gist.github.com/toomasv/0085fd7c61e53dc9cedb45ae98f777e9).
bubnenkoff
08:04> The error is that both your positions are at the start of the block.

why first head is needed? I understand that is move to header, but why it's before move? Because it setting place that accept result of moving?
toomasv
08:14Otherwise just position at last element is returned by move, because move was given series at this position. head is needed only if you require the whole series immediately. Otherwise not needed. You can just refer to x to get the whole series with rearranged elements.
rebolek
08:21as @toomasv said head is not needed, I added it just to show the result.
rsheehan
20:34@toomasv Thanks. I will try that.

bubnenkoff
08:11Eght... back to checking if value has been set. I tried unset? and value?. Both gave an error:
foo: func[][
	either value? aaa [
		print "aaa is exists"
		] [
		print "aaa not exists!"
	]
]
foo
ldci
08:25@bubnenkoff aaa is just a word with no value:)
bubnenkoff
08:26yes, but how to check if it has been set or not?
ldci
08:28@bubnenkoff aaa: 45 value aaa -> true
08:31@bubnenkoff or set ‘aaa 45 value? aaa -> true
bubnenkoff
08:31yes, I understand that if aaa have value I can check it with value?
But:
foo: func[][
    either unset? aaa [
        print "unset -> true"
        ] [
        print "unset -> false"
    ]
]
foo

error:
*** Script Error: aaa has no value
*** Where: either
*** Near : aaa [print "unset -> true"] [print "unset"]
*** Stack: foo unset?

08:32I do not need error, I need just print that value did not set
ldci
08:35@bubnenkoff if error? try [unset? aaa][print"unset-> true »]
dsunanda
08:36Does this help?
print unset? get/any  'aaa
true
print unset? 'aaa
false
bubnenkoff
08:43yes! What do get/any ? and maybe unset? should work without them?
ldci
08:57@bubnenkoff . Your function
foo: func[][
    either unset? get/any 'aaa [
        print "unset -> true"
        ] [
        print "unset -> false"
    ]
]
foo

08:58@bubnenkoff About get /any Allows word to have no value (allows unset)
bubnenkoff
09:08thanks!
ldci
09:09@bubnenkoff You’re welcome :)

bubnenkoff
09:55> also, idk what will happen if you close the window before loops finish :)

I checked, it's really hangs. I still want to try find way to ask user about action in current windows, without creation separate windows (just usablity question).
User case. There is some processing. There is menu in UI (list-list) that show current section. Sometimes section can't be detected and we need to ask user to select one of section from menu.
foo: function [] [
   foreach el ttt/data [
    if (el = "bb") [
      ; I need to ask user to click on any element in next list to continue 
    ] 
   ]
]

view [ 
   button "start" [foo]
   ttt: text-list: data ["aa" "bb" "cc" "dd"]
]


Or maybe to display some addition button and wait for it clicking before processing
hiiamboris
11:13In this case, I recommend leaving the loop, displaying some text telling the user what should be done, and making ttt selection enter a new loop.
11:13Any loop can be written using while or forever. Just stash the last index somewhere and continue once you're ready.

cosacam1
14:38Hi again. When I type ? scroller! I see there are props like position, page-size, min-size, etc. However, if I use a scroller in VID there's nothing like those props. I think they are different objects. How can I use a scroller in VID with those props? Or, how can I make a scroller's thumb to move to it's top (or bottom or elsewhere) position when I set it's data to some value? Thanks
hiiamboris
14:44view [scroller rate 2 on-time [face/data: 1 - face/data]]
cosacam1
14:59@hiiamboris , thanks for your fast answer. Actually I wrote this example and I realized that my problem was I was assining integers to data, not floats. Now, with to-float, it works as desired:
15:00'''Red [needs: view]

min-val: 10
max-val: 68
val: 54

view [
scr: scroller 120x20
text "0" react [face/text: to-string scr/data * (max-val - min-val) + min-val]
button "go" [
scr/data: (val - min-val) / to-float (max-val - min-val)
]
]'''
15:02
Red [needs: view]

min-val: 10
max-val: 68
val: 54

view [
    scr: scroller 120x20 
    text "0" react [face/text: to-string scr/data * (max-val - min-val) + min-val]
    button "go" [
        scr/data: (val - min-val) / to-float (max-val - min-val)
    ]
]
15:03Sorry, how to send some code? I forgot it
hiiamboris
15:04Ctrl+Shift+M to see the syntax
15:04you forgot newlines before/after \\\`
cosacam1
15:11Thanks again. I think this example is better:
Red [needs: view]

min-val: 10
max-val: 68
range: max-val - min-val

view [
    scr: scroller 120x20 
    text "0" react [face/text: to-string scr/data * range + min-val]
    button "click again" [
        val: min-val + random range
        scr/data: (val - min-val) / to-float range
    ]
]
15:13Oops. No "0" in text. Sould be text to-string min-val...
15:15Oops again. Just no "0" in text. Sorry.
toomasv
15:38@cosacam1 These are different things indeed - standalone scroller style and embeddable scroller object that you see with ? scroller!. I just used the embeddable one in a [table style](https://github.com/toomasv/table-template). See table-template.red, look from SCROLLING downward how it is implemented.
ldci
16:04@cosacam1 I don’t understand what you’re trying to do. As far I remember Scroller is not a view face. Use slider
min-val: 10
max-val: 68
range: max-val - min-val

view [
    scr: slider 120x20  
	text "10" react [face/text: form to-integer scr/data * range + min-val]
    button "click again" [
        val: min-val + random range
        scr/data: to-percent val - min-val / range
    ]
]

hiiamboris
16:06@ldci have you tried his code?
ldci
16:08@hiiamboris Yes under macOS:)
hiiamboris
16:11If scroller doesn't work on Mac, you should file an issue probably ;)
ldci
16:13@hiiamboris scroller is unknown on Mac for a direct use with view. But Toomas’s table code works fine :)
hiiamboris
16:14Actually it is not documented, so was probably never finished or not supported by Mac :)
16:15@qtxie may know
ldci
16:16I think so. BTW no way to create a vertical slider under macOS. Not supported by the OS.
cosacam1
19:01@ldci Well, there are both scrollers, one of them is a face. See Toomas comment
19:04@toomasv - I only took a look at your table's readme so far. I find it very useful. I haven't seen the code because I was away of my PC. Now I get to go home. I'll study it later. Thanks to all for your help.
toomasv
19:06:+1:

dsunanda
07:10I have a Windows R2/View app that uses SQLite with Ashley's driver. Works fine (other than the growing R2 cruft). Been chugging away for years. Happy user.

I have converted it to Red. Nicer GUI. But SQLite access is via CALL to SQLite's command line utility. Too clunky to really consider as a replacement for the R2 app.

But what I'd really like is to be able to run the app on Android and IOS.

How insanely naive am I?
rebolek
07:30Doesn't @Oldes have SQLite driver for Red?
toomasv
08:12It worked when I [played](https://github.com/toomasv/sqlite) with it ~two years ago. Haven't tried it since then, probably broken.
[![chinook](https://toomasv.red/images/DB/db-admin.gif)](https://toomasv.red/images/DB/db-admin.gif)
greggirwin
19:00> But what I'd really like is to be able to run the app on Android and IOS. How insanely naive am I?

A lot of work went into Android some time back, and a community member is looking at what they can do to help. We hoped to get it updated this year, but I'm not sure we'll make it. :^( iOS is a different beast completely, and we have no work done on it or a place in the roadmap for it.

GiuseppeChillemi
08:42@toomasv are you aware that your "toys", once fully functional, are the foundations of beautiful future application we could make with Red? This table browser is fantastic!
08:46@greggirwin we are near the end. Once IO will be merged, we will have everything needed to build full applications. If you concentrate your forces to complete the Android version, everyone will have a complete toolset to create applications for companies and Red adoption will be bosted. (and also will start for everyone the source of income coding with Red)
dsunanda
16:44@greggirwin Thanks Gregg. IOS would be nice, but Android is strategic.
toomasv
16:46@GiuseppeChillemi Thanks! But they are still just toys. There is looong way from toys to real things, I've learned..
GiuseppeChillemi
17:56@dsunanda I agree, Android with support for external libraries to read barcodes, would open an incredible market and attracts coders and companies.
17:56@toomasv I have learned it too.

planetsizecpu
06:42Well done @toomasv this kind of tools are useful for DB developers, push hard 🦾
toomasv
08:43Thanks, @planetsizecpu !

GiuseppeChillemi
09:55 I want to create a block with

field-name and validation rule in a block, like:
[
   code [integer?]
   description [25 < length?]
]


I think only of making a context and with a word and bind the block like:
validation: [
   code [integer? value]
   description [25 < length? value]
]
ctx: [
   value: none
]

code: 25
ctx/value: code 
valid? do bind validation/code ctx


Have you a better approaches?
hiiamboris
10:38Start from the top. How do you intend to use it?
GiuseppeChillemi
10:47Validation of gui field input, connected to database columns.
hiiamboris
10:49That was obvious :) But doesn't tell any of the specifics needed to answer your question.
10:49Why not just
validation: [integer? code 25 < length? description]
10:49Bind it, put into an all block and you're done
GiuseppeChillemi
11:41Because I want reusable code to use the for different fields. So I write fieldname validator-name and selxt the validator in another block
12:04Example:
validation: [
   string-40 [40 <= lenght? value]
   integer-less-25 [25 < length? value integer? value]
]

field-specs: [ 
   code integer-less-25
   description  string-40
   id integer-less-25
]

hiiamboris
12:16I see
12:17context makes sense then, or replacement of value with the column name during validation rule composition
GiuseppeChillemi
12:34Yes, it seems the only viable way to go.

hiiamboris
18:39Why can't we set "absent" tuple parts (even in R2)?
>> c: 0.0.0.0
== 0.0.0.0
>> c/4: none
== none
>> c
== 0.0.0
>> c/4: 0
*** Script Error: value out of range: none
*** Where: set-path
*** Near : 0
*** Stack:
18:48I have to first add a new part, only to be able to remove it:
> c: 0.0.0
== 0.0.0
>> c/4: none
*** Script Error: value out of range: none
*** Where: set-path
*** Near : none
*** Stack:  

>> c: c + 0.0.0.0
== 0.0.0.0
>> c/4: none
== none
>> c
== 0.0.0
greggirwin
19:14My first guess is that Red did it for Rebol compatibility. It may also have eased the implementation or align more closely with, e.g. block!/vector! behavior. Though vectors return none if you ask for an out of bounds index. And tuples cast none to 0 for all values following the index, if les than 3, setting the "size" of the tuple. If longer than 3, they go away.
19:15Worth a design review IMO.
19:20value out of range: none isn't helpful either. That's a bug.
hiiamboris
19:26An issue would do or issue and a rep?
greggirwin
19:27At the very least we'll get better docs out of it. And it's another case where we scratch our heads, because types are different and behave differently. Sometimes by design and sometimes...it can be improved. e.g. tuples can never be empty, or even have a length less than 3. Currently also a max length of 12 (which *likely* won't change, but is really an implementation side effect).

And because they aren't series values, using none to clear them is kind of like the question on that for removing map keys when they were first implemented. But you can't use at+clear. The joy of language design.
19:27Maybe a brief REP to start, to lay out the current and desired behavior.
hiiamboris
19:34Since it's a scalar, no need to be consistent with series.
19:34tuple/i: none is a bit of a hack, agreed

greggirwin
17:02While it's a bit of a hack, and a specific set-length action is more meaningful, I can't say it would be categorically better. But a set-length mezz might be worth considering. I have an old one for R2 (below), but like my shift and rotate series funcs, I only used it in a few cases. This is where it will be great when we have a collection of mezzanines and can evaluate and assemble things in a real ecosystem.

This doesn't support tuples, but could easily.
set-length: func [
	"Sets the length of a series, trimming or padding as necessary."
	series [series!] "(modified)"
	length [integer!]
	/with "Override default pad fill value (space for strings, none for blocks)"
		value
][
	default value either any-string? series [#" "] [none]
	if length = length? series [return series]
	either length < length? series [
		head clear skip series length
	][
		append/dup series :value subtract length length? series
	]
]
hiiamboris
17:24I'm also using smth like that, for further indexed write:
;; extend & expand are taken already
enlarge: function [
	"Ensure certain SIZE of the BLOCK, fill empty space with VALUE"
	block [any-block!] size [integer!] value [any-type!]
][
	insert/dup skip block size :value size - length? block
	;; returns after size
]
greggirwin
17:27Part of your tube work?
hiiamboris
17:28No, used in popups code.
greggirwin
17:29There are times where normalizing by size simplifies things, at the cost of space.

So popups aren't just like regular layouts?
hiiamboris
17:29https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-spaces/src/commit/a387dfb186e77d53b4796f7b4c3258d217fb5017/popups.red#L58
17:29and L69
17:30> So popups aren't just like regular layouts?

No, popups live in another faces with a predefined layered structure:
- layer 0 is tooltips
- layer 1 is top-level menu
- layer 2 is second-level menu and so on
greggirwin
17:30So stacks there are not strictly LIFO accessed.
17:31Ah, that explanation helps a lot.
hiiamboris
17:31Basically, stack in that case is not a FIFO/LIFO stack but just a collection of layers.
greggirwin
17:32Though I'll ask why tooltips are grouped with menus, rather than, say an object that names the elements. Outsider question. :^)
17:33If every face has them, blocks will be a lot lighter, per node!.
hiiamboris
17:36It's just a registry of faces that I'm adding to the window and using for my own purposes (later I must find and remove them or repurpose). For example, when new level 2 menu is shown it hides previously opened menus of level 2 and above, but not level 1 menu. Also all menus hide tooltips.
17:37Each such "registry" stack is associated with a top level window.
17:39Anyway it's an internal implementation detail, not exposed to the user.
greggirwin
17:39Thanks. Fortunately, Red gives us nice ways to deal with this too, e.g. named indexes into block structures.

hiiamboris
17:52An experiment: function constructor that allows to write readable code and make a mess out of it:
probe test: modifying-function ['a [word!] 'b [word!]] [
	a: also b b: a
	probe 'a/:b/1/(b + 1)	
]

func ['a [word!] 'b [word!]] [
    set a also (get b) set b (get a)
    probe 'a/(get/any b)/1/((get b) + 1)
]

But I can't find a name for it :/ Any ideas?
greggirwin
17:57If the goal is to make a mess of the code, ala obfuscation, call it messify. If it has a different purpose, like working around compiler issues, just use do.
cloutiy
18:07You can call it spagettify
hiiamboris
18:07Goal is to write readable code passing multiple values in and out.
greggirwin
18:11I'm still not clear then. We've been writing readable code like that in Red for years. :^)
hiiamboris
18:13Like many languages allow you to declare an argument "in/out" or ["pass by reference"](https://www.educative.io/edpresso/pass-by-value-vs-pass-by-reference) and it will automatically modify the variable (containing the argument value).
greggirwin
18:16Got it. That seems like a custom/extended func spec need, since I'm guessing doc strings aren't enough in your case. You want the added protection and control.
hiiamboris
18:17I'm just rewriting lit-args.
18:17
#include %keep-type.red

modifying-function: function [spec [block!] body [block!]] [	;@@ shitty name
	lit-words: keep-type spec lit-word!
	block-rule: [any [
		ahead set w get-word! if (find lit-words w)
		change only skip (as paren! reduce ['get/any to word! w])
	|	ahead set w word!     if (find lit-words w)
		change only skip (as paren! reduce ['get to word! w])
	|	ahead set w set-word! if (find lit-words w)
		insert ('set) change skip (to word! w)
	|	ahead any-list! into block-rule
	|	ahead any-path! into path-rule
	|	ahead word! 'quote skip
	|	skip
	]]
	path-rule: [any [
		ahead set w get-word! if (find lit-words w) change only skip (as paren! reduce ['get/any to word! w])
	|	ahead any-list! into block-rule
	|	skip
	]]
	parse body: copy/deep body block-rule
	function spec body
]
18:18No need to change the spec.
greggirwin
18:21by-ref-lit-arg-func, mod-lit-args-func, in-out-lit-arg-func all long, but maybe in-out-func is enough, if the doc string tells you how it operates.
18:23I like mod better in there. arg-modding-func isn't great though. by-ref isn't great either, because of so many values being by reference anyway, not to mention ref!.
hiiamboris
18:36in-out-func is okay
18:37thanks for ideas
18:42also maybe two-way-func
greggirwin
19:07two-way sounds like it calls back out, rather than just modding args.

hiiamboris
18:26
>> ?? repend
repend: func [
    {Appends a reduced value to a series and returns the series head} 
    series [series!] 
    value 
    /only "Appends a block value as a block"
][
    head either any [only not any-block? series] [
        insert/only tail series reduce :value
    ] [
        reduce/into :value tail series
    ]
]

I'm wondering here... Has anyone *ever* used the first branch of repend?
18:29I can only see it as a shortcut repend/only series block for append/only series reduce block, but then how common is it?
18:30For non-block types, what's even the point?
toomasv
18:34I use repend with block quite often. Sometimes with /only.
hiiamboris
18:39Can you point me to the code?
18:39Found one in diagram. A few even.
18:43OK I see your use case. Stacks of saved values.
18:48Funny, I don't think I ever used even append/only series reduce block.
18:49I guess we have our habits in how we model processes :)
toomasv
19:31> Can you point me to the code?

[Latest](https://github.com/toomasv/table-template/blob/main/table-template.red)
hiiamboris
19:36I don't see repend/only there
toomasv
19:43Ah, ok. [Here](https://github.com/toomasv/GA) are some.
hiiamboris
19:46Thanks
toomasv
19:48:+1:
greggirwin
19:49I've used it a small number of times in R2 code, from a quick search, as have others.

bubnenkoff
08:25Hi!
foo: [button "test"]
; how to check here if view is already loaded/displayed or no?
view foo
ldci
08:34@bubnenkoff may be with visible?
bubnenkoff
08:37
>> ? visible?
No matching values were found in the global context.

Or you mean to add a flag?
hiiamboris
09:07you'll have to add your own flag, yes
ldci
11:56Hi everybody. Why this code is wrong? face/extra object is not initialized.
Red[
	needs: 	 view
]

extend system/view/VID/styles [
	iosBtn: [
		default-actor: on-down
		template: [
			type: 'base
			size: 48x25 
			color: red
			data: 0
			actors: [
				on-create: [
                	face/extra: object [
                      	fColor:  snow
            			bColor:  face/color
            			bSize:   face/size
            			radius:  to-integer bSize/y / 2
						lCenter: as-pair radius radius				
						rCenter: as-pair bSize/x - radius radius
						
						;--make default image (off)
						blk: compose [
                			line-join round 
                			fill-pen fColor box 0x0 (bSize) (radius)
                			fill-pen fColor circle (lCenter) (radius)
                		]
                		bDraw: draw bSize blk ;--call draw method
                		bClick: func [face][     
                   			either face/data = 0 [
                    			face/data: 1 blk/4: bColor blk/12: rCenter
                    			][face/data: 0 blk/4: fColor blk/12: lCenter]
                    		;--update face image with draw
                			bDraw: draw bSize blk
            				face/image: face/extra/bDraw
                		]
                    ];--end of object
				];--end of create
				
				on-down: function [face] [
                	print "here" 
                	probe face/extra
                	face/extra/bclick face
                ]	
			];--end of actors
		];--end of template
	];--end of style
];--end of extend

view [iosBtn green 48x24 [face/extra/bclick face]]

hiiamboris
12:02forgot function?
ldci
16:38@hiiamboris . Thanks :)

GiuseppeChillemi
20:45bind does not allow path for its target argument. Is there a way to bind the first word of a path without converting it to block?
hiiamboris
21:36bind as block! path target
ALANVF
21:39this could also work
forall path [
	path/1: bind path/1 target
]
GiuseppeChillemi
21:39@hiiamboris
I didn't know this way of doing. To me it should have been:

to-path bind as block! path target
ALANVF
21:40you might want as path! instead of to-path but yeah
21:40that way it doesn't copy anything
GiuseppeChillemi
21:40I like both methods
21:42This don't understand if the other words other than the first one are bound, because they are symbolically used until they are get-word!
ALANVF
21:42then you could just skip the forall and do path/1: bind path/1 target
GiuseppeChillemi
21:58Path has confused me. I have thought path/1 would have returned a word unlinked to the path itself
ALANVF
21:59well since path is a path! (and therefore a series!), it's gonna return its first value, which is a word
21:59it's the same as if path was a block! or something

GiuseppeChillemi
08:06Yes if you bind the series, you can't pick from a block a word and rebind it:

>> o: make object! [a: 22]
== make object! [
    a: 22
]

>> o2: make object! [a: 99]
== make object! [
    a: 99
]


>> append x: [] in o 'a 
== [a]
>> bind x/1 o2
== a
>> reduce x
== [22]
08:11It would be nice to Rebind in place without changing the word, either for blocks and paths but it seems to me impossible, only bind seems to have this power when managing blocks.
BuilderGuy1
21:58I'm trying to use two drop-downs to make a "Category" drop-down that feeds a "sub-category" drop-down.
I can't get the second drop-down to see the results of the first.
This is what I have (which does not work).
21:58
RED [
	needs: 'view
]

Categories: ["MyList1" "MyList2" "MyList3" ]

MyList1: ["1" "2" "3" "4"]
MyList2: ["A" "B" "C" "D"]
MyList3: ["Arf" "Barf" "Carf" "Darf"]

	Add2Log: function [] [
	append log/data append now append "   " pick ItemSelect/data ItemSelect/selected
	]
	
	Cat1: []
	
view [
	across
	text "Category" 120x25 text "Sub Category"
	return
	CatSelect: drop-down 120x25 "Choose..." data Categories
	on-change [probe pick CatSelect/data CatSelect/selected
				ItemSelect/data: pick CatSelect/data CatSelect/selected]
	
	ItemSelect: drop-down 120x25 "Choose..." data Cat1
		[probe Cat1: pick CatSelect/data CatSelect/selected]
	MyAdd: button 30x25 "+" [Add2Log]
	return
	below
	text "Today's log"
	Log: text-list 200x200
		
]
hiiamboris
22:03forgot on-change?
BuilderGuy1
22:07I had that in there but I get an error stating that it can't use "none"
ALANVF
22:09as a side note, you may want to change append " " pick ... to append copy " " pick ...
BuilderGuy1
22:09ok I put it back and no error. i must have done something different before. Second droip-down still doesn't get any data
22:10I'll try it :-) @ALANVF
22:15Will the drop-down accept its DATA as text? Or do I have to change it's type inorder to point it to my other blocks?
hiiamboris
22:17data should be a block
22:18https://w.red-lang.org/en/view/#drop-down
22:18we have docs btw

ldci
08:33@BuilderGuy1 Something like that?
08:33[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/Cqks/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/Cqks/image.png)
08:35Here’s the code
Red [
    needs: 'view
]

Categories: ["MyList1" "MyList2" "MyList3"]

MyList1:  ["1" "2" "3" "4"]
MyList2:  ["A" "B" "C" "D"]
MyList3:  ["Arf" "Barf" "Carf" "Darf"]
uChoice:  none

Add2Log: does [append log/data rejoin [form now " " uChoice]]

view [
    across
    text "Category" 120x25 text "Sub Category"
    return
    CatSelect: drop-down 120x25 "Choose..." data Categories
    	on-change [
    			clear ItemSelect/data
                switch face/selected [
                	1 [ItemSelect/data: copy MyList1]
                	2 [ItemSelect/data: copy MyList2]
                	3 [ItemSelect/data: copy MyList3]
                ] 
                ;select ItemSelect first row and uChoice 
                ItemSelect/selected: 1
                uChoice: ItemSelect/data/(ItemSelect/selected)
    	]

    ItemSelect: drop-down 120x25 "Choose..." data []
    	on-change [uChoice: face/data/(face/selected)]
     
	button 30x25 "+" [Add2Log]
    return
    below
    text "Today's log"
    Log: text-list 200x200 data []

]

09:05A better solution without switch test.
CatSelect: drop-down 120x25 "Choose..." data Categories
    	on-change [
    			clear ItemSelect/data
    			subCategory: to-block  get to-word face/data/(face/selected)
    			ItemSelect/data: copy subCategory
                ;select ItemSelect first row and uChoice 
                ItemSelect/selected: 1
                uChoice: ItemSelect/data/(ItemSelect/selected)
    ]

11:07@BuilderGuy1. More concise:
CatSelect: drop-down 80x25 "Choose..." data Categories
    	on-change [
    			clear ItemSelect/data
    			ItemSelect/data: to-block get to-word face/data/(face/selected)
                ;select ItemSelect first row and uChoice 
                ItemSelect/selected: 1
                uChoice: ItemSelect/data/(ItemSelect/selected)
    ]

BuilderGuy1
15:17@ldci This is fabulous!! I'm examining the code now :-) I had made more progress on it yesterday. I could get data into the second drop-down but it was not syncing right. I love your examples!! Even at first glance I'm learning new things :-)
ldci
15:21@BuilderGuy1 You’re welcome :)
15:23@BuilderGuy1 The second way without swich is better: you can add all sub-categories you need.
BuilderGuy1
15:25Yes, I like the version without Switch too. I am glad you used it in an example thought! More examples are always better ;-)
ldci
15:28Yes, Red is fabulous for testing idea.
15:29
Red[
	Needs: 'View
]
names: ["Carl Sassenrath" "Nenad Rakocevic" "Chris Lattner"]
languages: ["Rebol" "Red" "Swift"]
win: layout [
    title "Picker"
    below center
    text "Languages" center font-size 14
    drop: drop-list data languages select 1 
    H2 300 center react [face/text: names/(drop/selected)]
    button "Quit" [quit]
]
view win

gor77
14:39Hello,

I've just started experimenting with Red. Seems very interesting!
Right now I'm trying to understand why something as simple as this:
falsy: [off false none]

to-logic falsey/1
to-logic first falsey
14:39returns true?
14:47sorry, first line should have been falsey: [off false none], just a typo
14:52
falsey: [off false none]

to-logic falsey/1
to-logic first falsey

There :)
hiiamboris
15:25Hi and welcome @gor77 :)
If you type type? falsey/1 what does it say? ;)
gor77
15:26Hi, it says ==word!
hiiamboris
15:26So you see, you have 3 words in your block, because block contents is not evaluated by default. And word is a truthy value.
15:27Try falsey: reduce [off false none]
15:28And don't forget to check the type again ;)
gor77
15:29Aha, think I get it ...it will take some time to get these concepts, obviously :)
hiiamboris
15:30Indeed. Red is one of the most mind bending languages ;)
15:31Red is a data format first. Everything in Red is just data.. until it is evaluated.
gor77
15:33I mean, I knew block is not evaluated by default...but I was under impression, that somehow, since this:
first falsey
 ```
gives back **off**, it seemed logical to me that this

to logic first falsey
`
also returns off. But it's all about the meaning, the types behind it - not the way it looks like :)
toomasv
15:34Hi, @gor77 
get falsey/1
== false
get first falsey
== false
gor77
15:36Yes, my understanding was that **first** will also **get** it :) But obviously, it will not do that.
15:41But also, I realized I could change lots of things, even some basic things like true and false.
For example 
false: true
15:42I mean, it looks like there is no bottom-line here :)
toomasv
15:43Yes, you can... but then you'll stop dead soon :)
ne1uno
15:43 falsey: [off #[false] #[none]]
gor77
15:44Yes, but still...shouldn't some things be like, set in stone...it's important for sanity :)
hiiamboris
15:46One day it may happen
gor77
15:46If I'm not wrong, I think Rebol has something like that?
hiiamboris
15:48Yes, it has protect
gor77
15:51That's useful. Now I'm maybe going too far with this, but if the whole concept of the language is around words (like a giant hashmap), would it be possible to reset it to clean state? For example, if I do something stupid like false: true :)
15:52I know I can simply start the console again...but I'm trying to understand what is possible within the language
15:53Still not very much resources out there, and it's a very interesting language. So different and extremely productive.
ldci
15:54@gor77 Have a look here: https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/SUMMARY.adoc
hiiamboris
15:54It's possible to copy system/words and then set things back. At least some of them.
gor77
15:54Aha, thanks, I will.
hiiamboris
15:56That's a reference. You may wanna start with [Rebol/Core](http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore.html) manual which is mostly applicable to Red
gor77
15:57@hiiamboris Yes, that's probably what I had in mind. There is a lot to learn. But when I realized how little code you need to display red image in a window, for example. Also, after fighting with regexes, parse looks like a revelation worth learning.
15:59But when it comes to Rebol, it's mostly V2 Red is based on?
hiiamboris
16:00R2, R3 and Red are somewhat equidistant from each other
16:00R2 manual is just most well-written one :)
gor77
16:01Aha, I see. Thanks a lot! :)
hiiamboris
16:02https://helpin.red/ and https://crypticwyrm.neocities.org/learningred/ are Red resources but I can't vouch for their coverage and quality
gor77
16:09Yes, I know for helpin.red, and also for www.red-by-example.org . These are very useful, but don't go very deep. I mean, in programming it's extremely important to understand how things are defined. I've also found https://github.com/meijeru/red.specs-public/blob/master/specs.adoc - definitely not an easy read, but clear definitions are very important
hiiamboris
16:14:+1:
gor77
16:20I just think this is the type of language people should start with..if nothing, they probably won't start to hate programming so quickly :) If it succeeds - like mass adoption - it could be a game changer.
hiiamboris
16:26It depends on the person. Red blows the mind, because literally everything can be approached from multiple angles. People who like puzzles will love that, and it will help them develop their skill further. But other people can't have that much space in their head, and they may favor a rigid language with a few simple hardcoded directives like if and for.
gor77
19:31Well, what I like about Red is that it somehow hits that spot between high-level language (like, *really* high) and a language that still has in mind what programming should be about. I think it gives nice abstractions so people don't have to write boring code over and over again.
At the same time it's not boring because it seems to me that it manages to abstract just the boring/tedious parts :)

And the only problem I see with this is the possibility it won't be taken seriously, simply because of that attitude that I think is still very much present in the programming world - if it's not C++/Java/C#
and if you can open a window or a file (God save URL!) with a single line of code, it's probably something for kids.

Maybe Red/System will change that.
greggirwin
20:59Welcome @gor77 ! Others have noted some important details, but you also found parse already. Being a data format first is fundamental, and also using parse to build dialects (internal DSLs, using Red values and blocks rather than string parsing). As you've also seen, a bit, "There is no spoon." The idea of words being able to refer to other values in a given context or domain is also deeply part of Red, but there are times when you want to lock some stuff down. R/S proves this too, that you can create a more strict language out of a dynamic one, while sharing a syntax.

Happy Reducing!
gor77
22:32Thanks! I'm just surprised that it hasn't really got the attention I think it deserves.

There are so many (too many, actually :) languages out there, so maybe people don't care so much. But many of them are really not that much different.
Something like Linux distributions...

And even when they get something important right - like, maybe safety in case of Rust - the fun part while trying to learn them, or while trying to do something concrete with them just wasn't there. It was completely missing. But the pain was almost constant, only with maybe few bright moments :)
And yes, @hiiamboris is right - a lot of it depends on the person. I can speak only for myself.

But then again - a lot of languages are not really human friendly *at all*. It's almost like they are made for machines, not humans.
Red definitely looks and feels different, and that's a good thing!

henrikmk
10:51This neither works in Red, nor R2 or R3:

>> t: [(fc) 'custom-action (fc) (event)] ; I want to replace (fc)
== [(fc) 'custom-action (fc) (event)]

>> replace/all copy/deep t to-paren 'fc 'y ; replace (fc) with 'y
== [(fc) 'custom-action (fc) (event)]

>> replace/all load mold/all t to-paren 'fc 'y ; try harder
== [(fc) 'custom-action (fc) (event)]


It doesn't work with blocks either.

What am I missing? It's something obvious, I know it.
toomasv
11:10@henrikmk 
replace/all/deep t quote (fc) 'y
== [y 'custom-action y (event)]
henrikmk
11:17That still doesn't work in R2 or R3, and crashes in my Red build, so I guess this is a recent change.
11:17I'm using PARSE instead. Thanks. Was just curious.
toomasv
11:39Tried this in 30-April build.
fergus4
13:49What is the equivalent of rebol's reform?
hiiamboris
15:32just write your own
15:33
>> replace/all [(fc) 'custom-action (fc) (event)] [(fc)] 'y
== [y 'custom-action y (event)]
rebolek
17:46@fergus4 IIRC reform is form reduce
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:01> Yes, I know for helpin.red, and also for www.red-by-example.org . These are very useful, but don't go very deep. I mean, in programming it's extremely important to understand how things are defined. I've also found https://github.com/meijeru/red.specs-public/blob/master/specs.adoc - definitely not an easy read, but clear definitions are very important

Unfortunately, Carl has never written (or a least has never released) REBOL design papers. So no one stop source for all of the "why"s and deep corners
ALANVF
19:51@fergus4 it's not exactly the same (since the result type is determined by the first value), but rejoin seems to be similar
BuilderGuy1
21:08I'm trying to save a BLOCK to a csv file. When I try to use "to-csv" i get the error "*** Script Error: to-csv has no value"
21:08What am I missing ??
gurzgri
21:09save/as data 'csv?
BuilderGuy1
21:10This is what I'm using 
a: ["a" "b" "c" "d"]
print to-csv a
ALANVF
21:11seems like to-csv isn't a function
21:11what build is your version of Red?
BuilderGuy1
21:11today's
ALANVF
21:11weird, I have one from last week and it works for me
BuilderGuy1
21:11to-csv is in the wiki and was added back in 2019
ALANVF
21:12[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/PRxX/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/PRxX/image.png)
BuilderGuy1
21:12let me try...
ALANVF
21:12if that doesn't work, enter system/build/date and tell me what it says
BuilderGuy1
21:13
>> to-csv [1 2 3]
*** Script Error: to-csv has no value
*** Where: catch
*** Near : to-csv [1 2 3]
ALANVF
21:13try what I just said then
BuilderGuy1
21:13
>> system/build/date
== 23-May-2022/21:48:17
ALANVF
21:14weird
21:14maybe it was accidentally removed recently?
BuilderGuy1
21:14I am using the WINDOWS version in CrossOver on Mac. i could try the Mac version (so buggy though...)
21:15I have to switch computers... hold on... M1 Mac Mini can't run RED. Have to use my laptop with 32-bit complient Mac OS
21:16HA!! that worked ! May 17th build.
ALANVF
21:16huh weird
21:17now try the latest build on there, if it doesn't work again then I know what the problem is
BuilderGuy1
21:17DAMN !!! That means i can't use my main system for RED.
21:17ok hold on...
hiiamboris
21:22lol I can't use csv or json either
BuilderGuy1
21:22It failed compiling !!! "Runtime error 1: access violation at: 0008524Ch"
ALANVF
21:22interesting
BuilderGuy1
21:22May 23rd Mac version
ALANVF
21:22maybe today's build is just broken?
BuilderGuy1
21:23I have an april 15th version in Crossover let me try that...
ALANVF
21:23not sure how though
BuilderGuy1
21:23
>> to-csv [1 2 3]
*** Script Error: to-csv has no value
*** Where: catch
*** Near : to-csv [1 2 3]
ALANVF
21:24weird
BuilderGuy1
21:25 I never seem to get a project done but BOY can I find bugs ;-)
hiiamboris
ALANVF
21:26the file it's defined in hasn't even been touched in months https://github.com/red/red/blob/c97690694b6a85bd23b04c23a6c474ffc16ec472/environment/codecs/CSV.red#L359
hiiamboris
21:2614 may build has to-csv
ALANVF
21:27I wonder if it's mac-only?
21:27it would not surprise me
hiiamboris
21:27he said bug is on windows
ALANVF
BuilderGuy1
21:27It failed in 2 windows builds for me as well (Using Wine/CrossOver)
ALANVF
21:28has you tried running it on a vm or something?
21:28I have a build from May 17th and it works fine for me natively (I use windows)
hiiamboris
21:29try the latest?
BuilderGuy1
21:29I could use my windows PC but it's not very convenient with my setup. My mac mini is my main system so trying to get as much working on it as possible.
hiiamboris
21:31only 4 unrelated commits since 14th
BuilderGuy1
21:31I tried the april 15th and may 23rd Windows builds in CrossOver. Both fail for "to-csv" but seem to work just fine for other basics (I can't do any thing complex so...)
21:32My little GUI app I'm building to learn RED works just fine in the May23rd build. Just TO-CSV that fails that I have found so far
ALANVF
21:35curious, try context? 'to-csv and index? 'to-csv and see what it says
21:36or rather just the latter
hiiamboris
21:36Hm I get to-csv in latest build, wait. But not in a custom built cli console
but maybe because I skipped updates of some console files
ALANVF
21:36index? 'to-csv should return 1508 or similar
21:36oh do you think it's only enabled in gui console?
BuilderGuy1
21:36
>> index? 'to-csv
== 2262
ALANVF
21:36what console are you using, gui or cli?
BuilderGuy1
ALANVF
21:37oh that complicates things
hiiamboris
21:37Right, I don't have needs: [json csv] in my consoles
21:37It was a new invention and I didn't get to modify my version
21:38@BuilderGuy1 are you perchance building it yourself too?
BuilderGuy1
hiiamboris
21:38weird
ALANVF
21:39ahh here's something to try, enter system/build/config/modules and tell me what it says
hiiamboris
21:39@BuilderGuy1 any directories you see in %ProgramData% path?
BuilderGuy1
21:39
>> system/build/config/modules
== [View]
ALANVF
21:39ahhhhhh
21:39it's not loading JSON or CSV modules
21:39no clue why
BuilderGuy1
21:41@hiiamboris How to I check that path?
21:41oh, I understand...
21:42This is a bottle in CrossOver (WINE). There are 2 directories directly in ProgramData: Windows and RED
hiiamboris
21:43well maybe wine's the issue
21:43sorry path I wanted you to check is ProgramData/Red
BuilderGuy1
21:43Could be but the Mac version doesn't work either
hiiamboris
21:43there shouldn't be any leftover source directories
21:44but now I think it's the problem of OS version detection
BuilderGuy1
21:44ProgramData/Red has 3 files: console-cfg.red crush-2022-5-23-6725.dll gui-console-2022-5-23-6725.exe
21:45It is in a Windows XP bottle. It would not work in Win7 or Win10 bottles. Same error as compile error with mac version
ALANVF
21:46that's weird
21:47maybe you need to include additional windows libs?
hiiamboris
21:47@BuilderGuy1 if you run R2, what does system/version/4 say under Wine?
BuilderGuy1
21:48rebol?
hiiamboris
21:48yeah
21:48though if it said anything else than 3 you would not get windows build
21:49really weird, idk
BuilderGuy1
21:49i don't have that handy, don't use it...
hiiamboris
21:49I guess Wine worked for you previously?
BuilderGuy1
21:49I has been working fine. But now finding things that don't work
21:50My little GUI app works fine but can't use CSV
hiiamboris
21:53idk, I guess just file [an issue](https://github.com/red/red/issues/new?template=bug_report.md) and maybe Qingtian has wine to test
21:53I've no idea what was broken
BuilderGuy1
21:54weird... ok, I guess I will just need to use a real windows environment then

ldci
04:59[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/seBD/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/seBD/image.png)
ne1uno
12:02polka dot demo and a few anomalies.
12:02rate doesn't work if added to a style? is rate 7 not 7 seconds?
12:02/no-wait exits now interpreted? I think it used to work differently.
12:02(polkadot demo)[https://gist.github.com/ne1uno/b9c13330f563462038a75e4710743b64#file-polkadot-demo-red]
pekr
13:50IIRC, rate accepts either the time type, or an integer, where it meanx - x-times per second. So if you want 7 secs, you have to specify it as a time 00:00:07
ne1uno
13:53thanks, I forgot layout on the view so am rechecking things
13:55yes, time format worked

snotbubble
06:38Is there a way to tell the difference between "string" and {string}? They're both of type string!
ne1uno
06:44literal {string} can have newlines. I think form shows {string} after some minimal length or if there are newlines.
snotbubble
07:12Some context: Need to make view fields from "string" data, areas from {string} data, but can't tell the difference... besides doing something awful like getting-at the curly-braces.
hiiamboris
07:33Look for a newline in the text
07:34Or, parse the input
snotbubble
07:48won't work in this case as some ui items must be areas (eg: for sourcecode), even if the incoming data is a one-liner. Also I can't determine if it should be an area by checking the data name (word) as its set by the user. Everything is determined by type, but "string" and {string} are the same to Red.
Is there a non-string string with a unique type that can be (ab)used for this task?
ne1uno
07:48https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14765993/whats-the-fastest-most-efficient-way-to-count-lines-in-rebol
07:50make everything an area?
08:07if you control the input, store binary! then convert back to string
rebolek
08:15@snotbubble you can abuse tag! for example.
Oldes
08:33But this < > is two words and this <> is one word ;-)
snotbubble
08:37@rebolek got it thanks! Will use tag for field, string for area...
hiiamboris
09:15
areas: make hash! 100
transcode/trace {"string" {multiline string}} func [e i t l k] [
	[load] repend areas [k i/1 = #"}"]
]
?? areas

areas: make hash! ["string" false "multiline string" true]
09:16https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/lexer.adoc#52-transcodetrace

rsheehan
01:26Just wondering if anyone knows of a Red binding to ncurses?
ALANVF
01:37@rsheehan does this work? https://github.com/red/code/tree/master/Library/Curses
rsheehan
01:39@ALANVF Thanks. I will try it out.
GiuseppeChillemi
10:38Is there a way to rebind the body of a function, once created, without recreating it?
hiiamboris
11:15bind body-of :fun ctx
11:15obvious, right?
GiuseppeChillemi
11:59I remember the body being copied and "closed" to further changes.
11:59I could try only later
gurzgri
12:04
Red
>> a: 4  f: does [prin [a ""]]  f  o: context [a: 5 f]  bind body-of :f o  f
4 4 5

It's not "closed".
GiuseppeChillemi
12:46Good news.
bubnenkoff
17:18How to rename key in map? I need to change:
m: #(a: 1)

to get b: 1
hiiamboris
17:19add a new key, remove the old
bubnenkoff
17:22it's only way? I thought about it, but value is big array and I think it would be many unnecessary allocations
hiiamboris
17:22map does not hold a copy of (series) value, just the reference
17:23
>> m: #() m/x: [long array] m/y: m/x same? m/x m/y
== true
GiuseppeChillemi
21:06This is what I was trying to do:

s: 22
x: 33

f1: func [/local s x] [
	probe [s x]
]

f2: func [/local s x] [
	probe reduce [s x]
]

o: make object! [
	m: :f1
	n: :f2
	
]

bind body-of :o/m 's
bind body-of :o/n 's


probe o/m
probe o/n


But in Rebol I get:

** Script Error: Cannot use reflect on block value
** Near: make error! reduce [err-type err-id pick args 1 pick args 2 pick args 3]


So this is not possible in Rebol but only in RED:

o: make object! [
	m: :f1 bind body-of :m 's
	n: :f2 bind body-of :n 's
	
]





ALANVF
21:07trying to insert function values into an object is a pain
GiuseppeChillemi
21:08In Red it is easier
ALANVF
21:08slightly yes
GiuseppeChillemi
21:08Why "slightly"?
ALANVF
21:09dunno, I just remember trying something similar a while back and it took like 10 minutes to get it working correctly
GiuseppeChillemi
21:10In Rebol the function body seems locked.
ALANVF
21:11I think rebol copies the body so yeah
21:14wait are refinement!s more like word!s than issue!s?
21:15ughhhhhh that means I need to reimplement red.js stuff
21:16[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/5Yjm/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/5Yjm/image.png)
21:16it's weird because you can't treat them like words anywhere else
21:20it seems like issues are also words, but that doesn't explain the above behavior??
hiiamboris
21:22refinements still carry the binding (because of functions using them, primarily), but it was hidden recently (~year ago)
ALANVF
21:23then what about issues?
hiiamboris
21:23issues have the binding slot too, but it's unused, so issues are purely symbolic
ALANVF
21:23well that's annoying
hiiamboris
21:23what is?
ALANVF
21:24the implementation for this
hiiamboris
21:24why?
21:24each datatype serves different purposes
ALANVF
21:24because now I get to rewrite a lot of Red.js code, since I had assumed refinements and issues were separate from words
21:25this is primarily painful due to implementing actions for the datatypes
hiiamboris
21:25will teach you to design in more modular fashion ;)
ALANVF
21:25well I like to think I already have
hiiamboris
21:25every skill can be improved
21:26what really changes other than comparison for sameness?
GiuseppeChillemi
21:26 =?returns if 2 elements are "identical". Refinement has binding while issue should have no binding, so the /c could be considered different because belong to different bindings, but I may be wrong.
hiiamboris
21:27:turtle:
ALANVF
21:27yeah basically
GiuseppeChillemi
21:27> :turtle:

???
ALANVF
21:28> what really changes other than comparison for sameness?

mainly the way comparison works, since issues and refinments use a different data structure layout / base type than words
hiiamboris
21:29in Red, they have the same base, I'm sure you've seen
21:29which is the basis for all-word! typeset
GiuseppeChillemi
21:29@hiiamboris
Oh, I was so concentrated into writing that I have not seen you have already answered, so yes: :turtle:
ALANVF
21:29yeah I never really thought about it at the time after observing the behavior of issues and refinements
hiiamboris
GiuseppeChillemi
21:31@ALANVF I have found this article while searching for info:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14818324/what-is-the-summary-of-the-differences-in-binding-behaviour-between-rebol-2-and
21:32And another interesting link I will report in red/red
ALANVF
21:36oh that's interesting, thank you
21:36this reminds me that I wish the use native was in Red
22:35ok got it working correctly in Red.js now, thanks :+1:
22:35[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/TbxV/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/TbxV/image.png)

GiuseppeChillemi
00:19Ottimo!
00:19Here is the only solution I have found in Rebol to include already made functions in objects and rebind they body:

oo: make object! compose/deep [
	f1: func copy/deep [(spec-of :f1)] copy/deep [(body-of :f1)]
]

bubnenkoff
13:25I have next data structure:
data: [
	foo: 1
	bar: 2
	lots: []
]


I need to wrap every set words with not block value to object:
data: [
	object [
		foo: 1
		bar: 2
	]
	lots: []
]


I started with follow code: 
data: copy [
	foo: 1
	bar: 2
	lots: []
]

foo: function [] [
	isObjectAdded: false
	foreach [key value] data [
		if not block? value [
			if (isObjectAdded = false) [
				insert data 'object 
				isObjectAdded: true
			]
			
		]

	]
]

foo


But I think that it would be hard to open [ and ] symbols. At least I can't figure out how to add them.

Would it be better to start with parser here?
13:40And it seems that adding square brackets not trivial task. At least I can't find way to do it
hiiamboris
13:46I think you're again seeing the code textually, not as a tree.
13:46you can sort the data, putting blocks to the bottom, then do your thing
toomasv
13:48Just joking:
data: [foo: 1 bar: 2 lots: []]
parse data [any [change copy x to [set-word! block!] ('object) insert only (x) 2 skip]]
data
== [object [foo: 1 bar: 2] lots: []]
bubnenkoff
13:53> Just joking:
> 
> data: [foo: 1 bar: 2 lots: []]
> parse data [any [change copy x to [set-word! block!] ('object) insert only (x) 2 skip]]
> data
> == [object [foo: 1 bar: 2] lots: []]
>


As usually thanks! I am reading, just not understand how to add brackets to block....
13:54> you can sort the data, putting blocks to the bottom, then do your thing

Yes, but I can't figure out how to add block symbols ....
hiiamboris
13:54Oh come on. Your code **is not text!**
13:54You don't insert symbols into it.
bubnenkoff
13:56ah....understood, but what way is to wrap it with block?
hiiamboris
13:56reduce
bubnenkoff
13:57to reduce what? words with not block values?
14:21@toomasv you are:
1. collecting all words and values till [set-word! block!]
2. than change all of them to .... (and here I can't understand what happens).
14:33@toomasv
Base on your example I wrote this code:
parse data [ any [  change  copy x to [set-word! block!]  (to-block x)   ]  ]
probe data


it's not work now, but I think it's logical.
it's collect all words that have not block value, do block from it, and should replace original with it (leave out for simplification inserting object word).
and it's now work now because I can't understand if change should change all till [set-word! block!]
toomasv
14:42@bubnenkoff
1. **copy** all values until [set-word! block!]
2. change copied part into word object
3. insert copied part as block (with only)
4. skip set-word! block!
5. repeat if any more...
14:46
parse data [ any [  change only copy x to [set-word! block!]  (x)   2 skip]  ]
bubnenkoff
14:51big thanks for explanation! and what do 2 skip ? it's seems that they should skip last value that have a block, or no?
toomasv
14:51Point 4, yes
bubnenkoff
14:53so it can be written as:
parse data [ any [  change only copy x to [set-word! block!]  (x)   skip [set-word! block!]  ]  ]

?
toomasv
14:55
parse data [ any [  change only copy x to [set-word! block!]  (x)   set-word! block!  ]  ]
bubnenkoff
14:55ah! Thanks!
toomasv
14:56You are welcome!

bubnenkoff
08:22@toomasv

I stuck with algo. The idea is next: I have got data structure that I should be able to prepare for casting to JSON:
data: [
	item1: none
	+lots: [
		foo: none
		lot: [
			bar: none
			baz: none
			+objects: [
				price: 123
				count: 1
				object: [
					item: "apples"
				]
				object: [
					item: "bananas"
				]				
			
			]
		]
		
	]
]


Every array is started with "+". Other elements is objects. So I need to get at result:
data: [ 
	object [ item1: none ]
	lots: reduce [
		object [foo: none]
		object [
			bar: none
			baz: none
			
			objects: reduce [ 
				object [price: 123 count: 1]
				object [item: "apples"]
				object [item: "bananas"]

			]
		]
	]
]

print to-json object data ;


I wrote follow code:
is-any-except-block-inside?: function[data] [
    foreach [k v] data [
        if not block? v [return true]
    ]
    return false
]

foo: func [] [

	walk: function [data] [
		if is-any-except-block-inside? data [ 
			parse data [change copy x to [set-word! block!] ('object) insert only (x) set-word! block! ]
		]

		foreach [key value] data [
			if block? value [
				either find to-string key "+" [
					parse data [ to [set-word! block!] set-word! insert ('reduce) to end ] 
				] [
					; parse data [to [set-word! block!] change set-word! ('object)]
				]
				
				walk value
			]
				
		]
	]

	walk data

]

foo 

probe data


But all problem with commented lines. It should change every block name without + symbol to object like: lot: [] should become object [] but it does not.

Could you help me?
hiiamboris
09:22?? and probe are your friends, as always
toomasv
11:13@bubnenkoff Is this you aim for? 
{"lots":[{"foo":null},{"bar":null,"baz":null,"objects":[{"price":123,"count":1},{"item":"apples"},{"item":"bananas"}]}]}
bubnenkoff
11:16@toomasv yes, one moment I am looking more detail, but it's seems that yes
toomasv
11:17Quite a challenge it was:
type: copy []
in-array?: yes
parse data rule: [any [
	s: copy x [any [set-word! not block! skip] e:] 
	opt [if (all [in-array? not empty? x]) (b: change/part s reduce ['object x] e) :b]
	change copy x set-word! (
		insert type in-array? 
		either in-array?: #"+" = first y: form x [reduce [to-set-word next y 'reduce]]['object]
	)
	[ahead block! [into rule (in-array?: take type)] | skip]
]]
print to-json object data
bubnenkoff
11:22Oh my god!
P.S. I did not checked you example but in json string first object [ item1: none ] was missed
toomasv
11:23
probe data
[object [item1: none] lots: reduce [object [foo: none] object [bar: none baz: none objects: reduce [object [price: 123 count: 1] object [item: "apples"] object [item: "bananas"]]]]]
bubnenkoff
11:24One moment) I am trying to understand how it's works)) it's too different from my attempt))
toomasv
11:27First objet [item1: none] is lost because it is not retained in result after object data -- there is no set-word for it.
bubnenkoff
11:30> First objet [item1: none] is lost because it is not retained in result after object data -- there is no set-word for it.

Yes! I just discovered this problem! Is there any way so save it?
toomasv
11:36Well, you design the output :)
bubnenkoff
11:39it seems that it's work: print to-json reduce data !
toomasv
11:40Ok, change in-array?: no:
{"item1":null,"lots":[{"foo":null},{"bar":null,"baz":null,"objects":[{"price":123,"count":1},{"item":"apples"},{"item":"bananas"}]}]}
bubnenkoff
11:41Hah! it's work too!
toomasv
11:41With reduce data you'll lose lots:
bubnenkoff
11:41ah... one moment, I will look again
11:42You are right! I am losing lots:
toomasv
11:43But with my way item1 is not in separate object any more
bubnenkoff
11:46Thanks... I am looking at code, it seems that you are right....
11:50@toomasv Egh... it's seems that your are right again, and it's more correctly not to make other key-value not part of object, but be as you did with first element....
11:52Ah... one moment %) they are part of an array so they should be an object

lucindamichele
00:33https://youtu.be/CMNry4PE93Y
ALANVF
00:53why post that here?
greggirwin
04:28May have been mis-posted.
04:31Lucinda helped us with PR for a while, and probably remembers me as a zombie child.
GiuseppeChillemi
06:47Maybe Lucinda has a Children and was he who mis-posted
ne1uno
10:04@iceflow19 is zombie
GiuseppeChillemi
11:26OMG, you are confusing me. Is it an affirmation? Is it a Joke? Is someone else with a fake account? Is he really a Zombie from the world of deads? Do you know something about @iceflow19 we do not know? Are you him??? 😱
ne1uno
11:31never let a crisis go to waste
GiuseppeChillemi
12:54You have been awarded with the first prize in cryptology. 🏆
cosacam1
19:21Hi everybody
19:27 I have problems with split. It brakes a quoted string in several words and I want the quoted string as a whole. For example. 
s: {john mary "Life is good" truck plane} r: split s " " print r
hiiamboris
19:32use parse
cosacam1
19:32The result is 
[john mary {"Life} "is" {good"} truck plane]
however I need the quoted sentence not to be splitted. Is it possible? Thanks.
hiiamboris
19:32https://www.red-lang.org/2013/11/041-introducing-parse.html
cosacam1
19:37Yes I considered to use parse (though difficult for me yet) so I tried split, maybe with a /only refinement but split doesn't have it. Any other way to do it? Only through parse?
greggirwin
19:38
>> print mold load-csv/with s " "
[["john" "mary" "Life is good" "truck" "plane"]]

Just pull the first item in the result block, since CSV make it a "row".
cosacam1
19:41Impressive! Thanks a lot
19:44 Anyway I must study hard parsing
greggirwin
19:44It's an advanced topic. Do the easy thing when you can. :^)
hiiamboris
19:53nice solution ;)

rebolek
09:15@greggirwin hah, I would've never thought of that :D
09:17@cosacam1 here's the parse version:
parse s [collect [some [#"^"" keep to #"^"" skip | keep to space skip]]]
cosacam1
11:04Thanks both.
15:13I see to-csv is a function in csv.red. I guess I must #include %cav.red in my program. I wonder if it is possible to do it in Red like in Python: from some module import somefunctio. Is it?
rebolek
15:17Not yet, Red will get module support eventually. However, you can write your own Python-like import right now, if you want.
cosacam1
15:31Let me finish my app first. Thanks. It would be a good exercise. I hope I can do it
16:11@rebolek to use your solution with parse I must include a space at the end of the source string otherwise the last element (plane in my example) is not collected. Ok, I can handle that
rebolek
16:57@cosacam1 you're right. sorry, I'm somehow missed it. Here's the correct version:
>> parse s [collect [some [#"^"" keep to #"^"" skip | keep to space skip] keep to end]]
== ["john" "mary" "Life is good" "truck" "plane"]

cosacam1
12:48Thanks again

bubnenkoff
18:45Is there any way to prevent auto-parsing values?
I want to create word: foo@bar: but it's recognizing as wrong email
hiiamboris
19:04@ is an invalid char in words
greggirwin
19:09You *can* work around it, but you'll end up creating more problems for yourself in the long run. Once you have email! values, you can modify them and convert them to words.
ALANVF
22:09@hiiamboris that's interesting, I discovered the other day that +@a is a valid word
22:10[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/73He/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/73He/image.png)
GiuseppeChillemi
22:23In Rebol even "+@ print hello word!" is a valid word.
>> type? probe to-word "+@ print hello word!"
+@ print hello word!
== word!
>>
ALANVF
GiuseppeChillemi
22:25I think it could have a valid reason. You can create phrases that act as a single function, or couple of words with verb + subject like add row which could be useful for human oriented languages.
ALANVF
22:32I personally think it's just an oversight in the lexer
22:32but sure
greggirwin
22:42@ALANVF worth a ticket on that lexer issue, if not already there.
ALANVF
22:43I would but I'm not sure why it happens in the first place
22:43in theory, @ should never be allowed in words
22:44(also not really sure what to search on github for this issue lol)
greggirwin
22:47Start by looking for lexer and email. I think it's just a lexer bug when +/- are followed by @.
ALANVF
22:53ahhh I'll bet I know why it happens then
22:53it's because +/- trigger a check for a digit in the case of a signed number literal
22:58since rebol allows it, maybe it should be kept?
greggirwin
23:02Q1) Can email addresses, per their spec, have only +/- as the user part?

Q2) Even if the spec allows it, does it make any sense or have any practical use?

If either of those are No, keep it as is and make a note somewhere.
ALANVF
23:03I don't see any good reason to have +/- as the user part in an email, though I can look into it further

GiuseppeChillemi
11:03@ALANVF I think that's because the combination could have meaning outside the emails context. So you are left free to build words like +@data for your DSL.
gltewalt
15:29invalied doohickies in email should be:
% ( ) : "
15:33Looks if it is a single character of -, + in the user part, it lexes it as word!
15:37If it's / or // it throws "operator is missing an argument".
If you stack more of them, so it doesn't think it is math, it is word! again
dukereg:matrix.org
21:00How do you make a function that uses refinements? I found documentation of how to make a refinement! symbol but not how they are worked into functions. Any links to examples would be appreciated
greggirwin
21:05Look at the source for view. We can craft an example, but if you do ? function! you'll see all the mezz level funcs that you can use source on and poke around from there.
21:06You can also look at http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore-9.html#section-3.4
dukereg:matrix.org
21:20Thanks, that link should suffice

cosacam1
02:17Hi. I posted this question earlier today but I don't see it here so here I go again. Text-list will show a vertical scroll bar when needed but neither drop-list nor drop-down do it. What must be done so the scroll bar shows? Thanks
GalenIvanov
07:04@dukereg:matrix.org

> How do you make a function that uses refinements? I found documentation of how to make a refinement! symbol but not how they are worked into functions. Any links to examples would be appreciated

Maybe [this](https://github.com/red/red/wiki/A-short-introduction-to-Red-for-Python-programmers#functions) will help you.
toomasv
07:51@cosacam1 Add scrollable, e.g. view [drop-list 150 data read %./ scrollable]
NB! It seems to be not documented, maybe experimental/temporary?
greggirwin
12:30@qtxie can you say if it's experimental, or maybe platform specific? In any case, we should doc it, and can note limitations or caveats.
cosacam1
12:48Thanks both but my red 0.6.4 says invalid syntax at: [scrollable], both in my program and in Toomas example in CLI
greggirwin
13:14Are you using the very old "stable" build, or automated? If stable, use the automated build.
hiiamboris
13:41Maybe we should remove b from "stable"
greggirwin
13:52<rimshot>
ldci
14:19Toomas’s sample runs under Windows 11 but not under macOS
cosacam1
18:17I'm using Windows 10. Please, clarify me about stabla and automated versions of Red. i'm using a version I downloaded a couple of months ago or less
hiiamboris
18:23see the build date:
>> about
Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 1-Jun-2022/7:18:47+03:00  commit #c619918
cosacam1
18:59Wow, mine is 21-Nov-2018. But I'm pretty sure I downloaded it recently. Well, I'm 60 years old. Maybe that explains everything. haha. And I'm still programming!
hiiamboris
19:01Great!
19:02you should download the automated build, we don't recommend "sta(b)le" to anyone
cosacam1
19:15I just browsed what I downloaded recently. it was downloaded on may 24 but it's nov 2018 version. Where is the automated version? On github?
hiiamboris
19:16on the same download page
cosacam1
19:19I'm seeking... Oh, 2 june 2022 downloaded. Let me see...
hiiamboris
19:21![](https://i.gyazo.com/189b604546457f880904f36ab507cc04.png)
19:22actually it has a huge regression since 1st of june, but if you're not using hash! you're good
cosacam1
20:17downloaded, installed, running, drop-list with scroll bar ok, also load as fast as read. In the Bible application I'm writing reading the Bible database (about 3 Mb) was fast but loading it was way too slow more than 15 seconds. Not so in rebol. Now kn this Red version both are fast. I'm sure I'll rind more improvements. Thank you all.
hiiamboris
20:30:+1:

qtxie
06:23> @qtxie can you say if it's experimental, or maybe platform specific? In any case, we should doc it, and can note limitations or caveats.

It's experimental. It's made for the gui-console. IIRC, it has been implemented on Windows and macOS backend.

ALANVF
20:28is there a way to format a time! value to show all digits like 00:00:00.000?
20:28mostly concerned with the decimal part at the end for milliseconds
hiiamboris
20:45https://github.com/red/red/pull/5069 in this branch
ALANVF
20:45ah, so that's a no for now I guess
hiiamboris
ALANVF
20:45dang
hiiamboris
21:40https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-common/src/branch/master/timestamp.red
you can do a quick hack if you really need it I guess
21:40just no standard/flexible way
ALANVF
21:40I figured something out
21:41in the process, I discovered that using on-time on a 10ms delay is slower than on a 100ms delay (who knew?)
hiiamboris
21:46https://github.com/red/REP/issues/26
ALANVF
21:48ah that explains it

ALANVF
21:06apparently when using a toggle rather than a button, all text id aligned to the right if it has a custom font and has a short width
21:06[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/3IiN/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/3IiN/image.png)
21:06compared to a button:
21:06[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/L78r/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/L78r/image.png)
21:06any ideas why?
hiiamboris
21:12report a bug if one does not exist
ALANVF
21:12wasn't sure if it was intentional or not
21:13skimming through the View code, I don't see why it would be happening
hiiamboris
21:13https://github.com/red/red/issues/4280
21:13closed but root issue is the same obv
ALANVF
21:13hmm ok
hiiamboris
21:14https://github.com/red/red/issues/4429 also related (for cross linking)
ALANVF
21:16do you think it's this? https://github.com/red/red/blob/master/modules/view/backends/windows/events.reds#L929
hiiamboris
21:21unless you see a relation with font, then no
ALANVF
21:21this is specifically when I add a font
hiiamboris
21:21I mean that part of code
21:21doesn't look like font related
ALANVF
21:22ok that actually was it lmao
hiiamboris
21:24haha
21:25push a fix then
ALANVF
21:25doing that now :+1:
21:30#5152

cosacam1
10:20Hi guys. I've been studying Helpin Red and Red by example/parse and I can count the times a substring appears in a string, but I have not found out how to count the exact word. For example "less" appears 4 times in "A lesser blessing is less than blessed" but the exact word is just once. How can I tell parse to count only the exact word "less". Thanks
hiiamboris
10:21use split first
cosacam1
11:07Yes, I though that, but in that case I must remove any punctuation symbols before so I can split on spaces. Ok, thanks.
hiiamboris
11:07then define a parse rule what is a *word* and count on it
cosacam1
11:27Right
ldci
15:32@cosacam1 . A sample 
#! /usr/local/bin/red
Red [
	Needs:	'View
]

flag: 1
punct: rejoin [",.;:!?-_(){}'" form #"^""]

loadFile: does [
	tmp: request-file
	unless none? tmp [
		txt: lowercase read tmp	;--lowercase for all text
		trim/lines txt			;--suppress all line breaks and extra spaces in text
		ar/text: read tmp		;--orginal text
		countWords				;--count words in text
	]
]

removePunct1: function [
	aText [string!]
][
	trim/with aText punct						;--trim method
]

removePunct2: function [
	aText [string!]
][
	remove-each c aText [find punct c]			;--remove-each method
]

removePunct3: function [
	aText [string!]
][
	_punct: charset punct
	parse aText [any [remove _punct | skip]]	;--parse method
]


countWords: does [
	foreach fcval [wordsList f1 f2] [face: get fcval clear face/text]
	copycat: copy txt				;--a copy since methods modify text
	do-events/no-wait
	t1: now/time/precise				
	switch flag [
		1	[removePunct1 copycat]
		2	[removePunct2 copycat]
		3	[removePunct3 copycat]
	]
	wordBlock: split copycat space	;--get words
	sort wordBlock				   	;--sort words
	n: length? wordBlock; - 1
	count: 1
	wordCount: copy []
	repeat i n [
		key1: wordBlock/:i key2: wordBlock/(i + 1)
		either key1 = key2 [count: count + 1][append wordCount rejoin [key1 ": " count] count: 1]
	]
	;append wordCount rejoin [key1 ": " count] ; last word in  block
	wordsList/text: ""
	foreach v wordCount [append wordsList/text rejoin [v newline]]
	t2: now/time/precise
	elapsed: to-integer (third t2 - t1) * 1000
	f1/text: rejoin [form n + 1 " words"]
	f2/text: rejoin ["in " form elapsed " ms"]
]

mainWin: layout [
	title "Word Count: Tests" 
	button "Load" 		[loadFile]
	drop-down 80 data 	["Trim" "Remove" "Parse"]
		select 1
		on-change 		[flag: face/selected countWords]
	f1: field 120 center
	f2: field 100 center
	pad 140x0
	button "Quit" 	[Quit]
	return
	ar: area white 400x400 wrap
	font [name: "Arial" size: 14 color: black] 
	wordsList: area black 200x400 
	font [name: "Arial" size: 14 color: green] 
] 

view mainWin

15:35@cosacam1. With 3 different methods for word counting :)
ALANVF
21:01[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/VNlJ/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/VNlJ/image.png)
21:01how do you make a context menu like this in View that includes the keyboard shortcuts on the side?
greggirwin
21:04[menu.red](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/hAYf/menu.red)
ALANVF
21:06[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/tG6E/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/tG6E/image.png)
21:06yeah but then it's not aligned
21:06also, having access to those menu dividers would be nice though not necessary
greggirwin
21:06Did you run what I posted?
ALANVF
21:07not yet, only looked
greggirwin
21:07So...maybe do that, and read the comments.
ALANVF
21:09ahhh it uses tabs
21:09thanks
greggirwin
21:11Menus are mentioned in https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/view.adoc, but not doc'd. As you explore, including popups, that would be a great task.
ALANVF
21:11yeah I noticed that, I could probably work on that after I finish this demo
greggirwin
21:11:+1:
21:12The best time to write docs is when what you didn't know is fresh in your mind. :^)
ALANVF
21:12and related, I think it'd be nice if the menu option was available within VID
21:12the current method is... clunky
greggirwin
21:16You can do it this way:
view layout/options [size 640x480] [
	menu: [
		"File" [
			"New                     Ctrl+N"    	new 
			"New Window     Ctrl+Shift+N"  		win
			"Open ...               Ctrl+O"     	open 
			"Save                    Ctrl+S"   	save 
			"Save As ...           Ctrl+Shift+S" 	save-as
			"Quit                    Ctrl+Q" 		quit 
		]
	]
]
ALANVF
21:17sure, but for multiline view blocks it's kinda out of place since you have to scroll all the way to the bottom to view the config
greggirwin
21:17It's a good thought experiment for you. Why *isn't* it included in VID already?
ALANVF
21:18there's also the issue of menu for widgets that support it
21:18yeah
greggirwin
21:19
window-opts: [
	menu: [
		"File" [
			"New                     Ctrl+N"    	new 
			"New Window     Ctrl+Shift+N"  		win
			"Open ...               Ctrl+O"     	open 
			"Save                    Ctrl+S"   	save 
			"Save As ...           Ctrl+Shift+S" 	save-as
			"Quit                    Ctrl+Q" 		quit 
		]
	]
]
view layout/options [size 640x480] window-opts

Now it comes first. :^)
ALANVF
21:19ehhh
21:20would much prefer something like
view [
	size 640x480
	menu [
		...
	]
	
	...
]
hiiamboris
21:21Personally I consider having word commands in the menu a mistake. Something I avoided in Spaces.
ALANVF
21:22yeah I also think it's a bit odd
greggirwin
21:22So think about it. Is that *really* better overall? How so? Does it come with any tradeoffs? Are menus really part of the layout? Do you think it just hasn't been considered? Of course, here I agree that if we *did* think about it, and decided not to include it that way, it would be good to mention.
21:22Do you use strings, or func refs in spaces @hiiamboris? Or something else?
ALANVF
21:23well my thing is that many other properties are directly configurable for the window object as well as other widgets in VID
21:23so it would make sense for menus to also be supported there
greggirwin
21:24Feel free to spec out the rationale your design, and post it. But maybe @dockimbel will weigh in on the current design before too long.
21:25Consistency in how container options are handled is a good goal.
hiiamboris
21:28> Do you use strings, or func refs in spaces @hiiamboris? Or something else?

Just parens
greggirwin
21:29Ah, interesting, so you can include code directly. Nice idea.
hiiamboris
21:29Yeah. I hate that words appear in different places and have to be kept in sync. Humans have better things to do
greggirwin
21:30I do like the aspect of words that menus are best suited as a dispatch mechanism, and that making you put things behind words makes those access points from code.
21:31Menus are arg-less commands (though don't rule out the idea of menu currying :^).
hiiamboris
21:31"menu line" (call your func) is no less powerful, but doesn't require indirection
greggirwin
21:32So even if I used parens in spaces, I would almost certainly never inline code there.
21:33Agreed, that's why I first asked if you used func, e.g. via get-words, to avoid that.
hiiamboris
21:33it's just normal code block, use func when it works
greggirwin
21:35It's possible that menu could add paren support, as it shouldn't break anything. Something to remember.
gltewalt
21:35> Yes, I though that, but in that case I must remove any punctuation symbols before so I can split on spaces. Ok, thanks.

Why must you remove punctuation?
21:38
>> b: split "A lesser blessing is less than blessed!" space
== ["A" "lesser" "blessing" "is" "less" "than" "blessed!"]
>> n: 0
== 0
>> foreach element b [if find element "less" [n: n + 1]]
== 4

hiiamboris
21:40you're not solving his task :)
gltewalt:matrix.org
21:50I thought he wanted to count "less"
greggirwin
22:02> How can I tell parse to count only the exact word "less".
gltewalt:matrix.org
22:10Well if he insists on parse...
greggirwin
22:26I think the key is that he wants to match the exact word, which implies ignoring punctuation.

xqlab
12:31 b: split "A lesser blessing is less than blessed!" charset {",.;:!?-_(){}' }
12:32Don't forget charset!
ne1uno
12:56^- for tab

GiuseppeChillemi
23:39Is there a quick way to avoid typing the same word and perform a series of operations on it, and at the end it will be updated to the new value?

Example:

value: 0
value: value + 22
value: value * 50
value: value + (totals/income)
value: value - calculate-depreciation tot 01/01/2000 01/01/2022


Should be:

value: 0
do-operation 'value [
  + 22
  * 50
  + (totals/income)
  - calculate-depreciation tot 01/01/2000 01/01/2022
]


Has anyone done something like this?

gltewalt:matrix.org
00:38Conditional assignment?
00:39People have done a few different "method chain" styles
gltewalt
02:55probably something like:
value: if 'true [
  do reduce [
    0
    + 22
    * 50
    + (totals/income)
    - calculate-depreciation tot 01/01/2000 01/01/2022
  ]
]
toomasv
04:46value + 22 * 50 + …
cosacam1
08:43Hi again. @ldci thanks for your program, actually more than what I needed. You count every word in the text, I only needed to count one. Thanks a lot. And you put a bonus- three methods to remove punctuations! I just made an improvement- instead of appending directly to wordsList/text I did it to a temporary list, then I assigned it to wordList/text `wl: copy ""
08:45foreach v wordCount [append wl rejoin [v newline]]
08:45wordsList/text: wl`
08:46It' much faster
08:48Anyway I had done my program too. Here it is 
Red [needs: view]

letter: charset [#"A" - #"Z" #"a" - #"z" "áéíóúüñ-"] ; every letter in Spanish
; not interested in capital accented ones nor Ñ
; but interested in compound words like Baal-peor with a hyphen

do-search: func [wrd [string!]] [
    cnt: 0      ; the counter
    foreach s txt [ ; for every string in the text
        init-len: length? s
        n2: 1   ; start searching the word from the beginning of the string
        done: false
        until [
            p1: none    ; points to where the word appears in the string
            p2: none    ; points to the char right after the word found in the string
            parse/case at s n2 [to wrd p1: thru wrd p2:] ; note that parsing starts at n2 in every loop, see below
            either p1 [         ; is the word present in the string?
                n1: index? p1   ; index of the first char of the word in the string
                n2: index? p2   ; index of char right after the word; besides, is where the next parsing will start
                ; next, is the word the first one in the string?
                ;       otherwise, is it not preceded by any letter?
                ;       I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
                startOk: any [n1 = 1  not find letter s/(n1 - 1)]
                ; next, is the word the last one in the string?
                ;       otherwise, is it not succeded by any letter?
                ;       I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
                endOk: any [n2 > init-len  not find letter p2/1]
                if all [startOk endOk] [cnt: cnt + 1] ; the "exact word" has been found
                done: n2 > init-len     ; the whole string is parsed?
            ][done: true]
            done
        ]
    ]
    r/text: rejoin [wrd " has been found " cnt " times"]
]

view [
    title "Counting Exact Words"
    button "Load" [ff: request-file     if ff [txt: read/lines ff]]
    text "Word to search for" f: field
    button "Search!" [do-search f/text]
    return
    r: text 200
]

08:49What do you think?
ldci
09:19@cosacam1 Could you send a formatted version of your code? Muchas gracias.
cosacam1
10:35I'll try again
10:38
Red [needs: view]

letter: charset [#"A" - #"Z" #"a" - #"z" "áéíóúüñ-"] ; every letter in Spanish
; not interested in capital accented ones nor Ñ
; but interested in compound words like Baal-peor with a hyphen

do-search: func [wrd [string!]] [
    cnt: 0      ; the counter
    foreach s txt [ ; for every string in the text
        init-len: length? s
        n2: 1   ; start searching the word from the beginning of the string
        done: false
        until [
            p1: none    ; points to where the word appears in the string
            p2: none    ; points to the char right after the word found in the string
            parse/case at s n2 [to wrd p1: thru wrd p2:] ; note that parsing starts at n2 in every loop, see below
            either p1 [         ; is the word present in the string?
                n1: index? p1   ; index of the first char of the word in the string
                n2: index? p2   ; index of char right after the word; besides, is where the next parsing will start
                ; next, is the word the first one in the string?
                ;       otherwise, is it not preceded by any letter?
                ;       I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
                startOk: any [n1 = 1  not find letter s/(n1 - 1)]
                ; next, is the word the last one in the string?
                ;       otherwise, is it not succeded by any letter?
                ;       I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
                endOk: any [n2 > init-len  not find letter p2/1]
                if all [startOk endOk] [cnt: cnt + 1] ; the "exact word" has been found
                done: n2 > init-len     ; the whole string is parsed?
            ][done: true]
            done
        ]
    ]
    r/text: rejoin [wrd " has been found " cnt " times"]
]

view [
    title "Counting Exact Words"
    button "Load" [ff: request-file     if ff [txt: read/lines ff]]
    text "Word to search for" f: field
    button "Search!" [do-search f/text]
    return
    r: text 200
]
10:39What I'm I doing wrong? It does not format
10:40Red [needs: view]

letter: charset [#"A" - #"Z" #"a" - #"z" "áéíóúüñ-"] ; every letter in Spanish
; not interested in capital accented ones nor Ñ
; but interested in compound words like Baal-peor with a hyphen

do-search: func [wrd [string!]] [
cnt: 0 ; the counter
foreach s txt [ ; for every string in the text
init-len: length? s
n2: 1 ; start searching the word from the beginning of the string
done: false
until [
p1: none ; points to where the word appears in the string
p2: none ; points to the char right after the word found in the string
parse/case at s n2 [to wrd p1: thru wrd p2:] ; note that parsing starts at n2 in every loop, see below
either p1 [ ; is the word present in the string?
n1: index? p1 ; index of the first char of the word in the string
n2: index? p2 ; index of char right after the word; besides, is where the next parsing will start
; next, is the word the first one in the string?
; otherwise, is it not preceded by any letter?
; I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
startOk: any [n1 = 1 not find letter s/(n1 - 1)]
; next, is the word the last one in the string?
; otherwise, is it not succeded by any letter?
; I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
endOk: any [n2 > init-len not find letter p2/1]
if all [startOk endOk] [cnt: cnt + 1] ; the "exact word" has been found
done: n2 > init-len ; the whole string is parsed?
][done: true]
done
]
]
r/text: rejoin [wrd " has been found " cnt " times"]
]

view [
title "Counting Exact Words"
button "Load" [ff: request-file if ff [txt: read/lines ff]]
text "Word to search for" f: field
button "Search!" [do-search f/text]
return
r: text 200
]
`
10:41
Red [needs: view]

letter: charset [#"A" - #"Z" #"a" - #"z" "áéíóúüñ-"] ; every letter in Spanish
; not interested in capital accented ones nor Ñ
; but interested in compound words like Baal-peor with a hyphen

do-search: func [wrd [string!]] [
    cnt: 0      ; the counter
    foreach s txt [ ; for every string in the text
        init-len: length? s
        n2: 1   ; start searching the word from the beginning of the string
        done: false
        until [
            p1: none    ; points to where the word appears in the string
            p2: none    ; points to the char right after the word found in the string
            parse/case at s n2 [to wrd p1: thru wrd p2:] ; note that parsing starts at n2 in every loop, see below
            either p1 [         ; is the word present in the string?
                n1: index? p1   ; index of the first char of the word in the string
                n2: index? p2   ; index of char right after the word; besides, is where the next parsing will start
                ; next, is the word the first one in the string?
                ;       otherwise, is it not preceded by any letter?
                ;       I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
                startOk: any [n1 = 1  not find letter s/(n1 - 1)]
                ; next, is the word the last one in the string?
                ;       otherwise, is it not succeded by any letter?
                ;       I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
                endOk: any [n2 > init-len  not find letter p2/1]
                if all [startOk endOk] [cnt: cnt + 1] ; the "exact word" has been found
                done: n2 > init-len     ; the whole string is parsed?
            ][done: true]
            done
        ]
    ]
    r/text: rejoin [wrd " has been found " cnt " times"]
]

view [
    title "Counting Exact Words"
    button "Load" [ff: request-file     if ff [txt: read/lines ff]]
    text "Word to search for" f: field
    button "Search!" [do-search f/text]
    return
    r: text 200
]
10:42Sorry I can't
ldci
11:00Something like that
Red [
	needs: view
]
letter: charset [#"A" - #"Z" #"a" - #"z" "áéíóúüñ-"] ; every letter in Spanish
; not interested in capital accented ones nor Ñ
; but interested in compound words like Baal-peor with a hyphen
do-search: func [
	wrd [string!]
][
	cnt: 0 ; the counter
	foreach s txt [ ; for every string in the text
		init-len: length? s
		n2: 1 ; start searching the word from the beginning of the string
		done: false
		until [
			p1: none ; points to where the word appears in the string
			p2: none ; points to the char right after the word found in the string
			parse/case at s n2 [to wrd p1: thru wrd p2:] ; note that parsing starts at n2 in every loop, see below
			either p1 [ ; is the word present in the string?
				n1: index? p1 ; index of the first char of the word in the string
				n2: index? p2 ; index of char right after the word; besides, is where the next parsing will start
				; next, is the word the first one in the string?
				; otherwise, is it not preceded by any letter?
				; I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
				startOk: any [n1 = 1 not find letter s/(n1 - 1)]
				; next, is the word the last one in the string?
				; otherwise, is it not succeded by any letter?
				; I mean, is it not a part of a longer word?
				endOk: any [n2 > init-len not find letter p2/1]
				if all [startOk endOk] [cnt: cnt + 1] ; the "exact word" has been found
				done: n2 > init-len ; the whole string is parsed?
			][done: true]
		done
		]
	]
	r/text: rejoin [wrd " has been found " cnt " times"]
]

view [
	title "Counting Exact Words"
	button "Load" [ff: request-file if ff [txt: read/lines ff]]
	text "Word to search for" f: field
	button "Search!" [do-search f/text]
	return
	r: text 200
]

cosacam1
11:37Thanks that's what I tried to do. I used the three apostrophs. Isn't it the way to do it? Thanks anyway
toomasv
11:41Apostrophs on separate line.
ldci
11:41Don’t forget shift+enter for line break:)
cosacam1
16:52Thanks. Today is Father's Day in my country and some other ones so Congratulations and Blessings to all fathers in the Red community.
gltewalt
23:36Blocks can be typed out however is pleasing to you.

value: do reduce [
  value 
  + 22
  * 50
  + (totals / income)
  - calculate-depreciation tot 01/01/2000 01/01/2022
]

ALANVF
18:26even better, use a paren

BuilderGuy1
16:47simple question; I want to make a Block of Blocks. How do I add an existing block into my Block of Blocks without it being added as a String?
16:48
>> a: [["a" "b" "c"]]
== [["a" "b" "c"]]
>> b: ["z" "v"]
== ["z" "v"]
>> append a b
== [["a" "b" "c"] "z" "v"]

:-(
ne1uno
16:51@BuilderGuy1, try append/only a b
BuilderGuy1
16:52Works! Awesome Thanks!
16:52I will reread the docs to understand why that works
hiiamboris
16:59? append
BuilderGuy1
17:31@hiiamboris I checked that too. Reading "Insert block types as single values" seemed like it would be inserting a single "string" as that's what APPEND was already doing. I understand now, but the description was not clear enough for me.
hiiamboris
17:33Nice imagination ;)
greggirwin
17:38@BuilderGuy1 it wasn't appending as a string, but as the values inside the block.
>> a: [["a" "b" "c"]]
== [["a" "b" "c"]]
>> b: [1 @builderguy 2x3 <oh no!>]
== [1 @builderguy 2x3 <oh no!>]
>> append a b
== [["a" "b" "c"] 1 @builderguy 2x3 <oh no!>]
BuilderGuy1
17:40That makes sense. Looking closer it's clear it isn't a string. Thanks!

loziniak
12:21hi, am I doing something wrong? I want to delete *map!* element:
>> m: #(k1: 1 k2: 2)
== #(
    k1: 1
    k2: 2
)
>> m/k1: none
== none
>> m
== #(
    k1: none
    k2: 2
)
12:22[in docs](https://red-language-documentation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Map!-datatype/): "In order to delete a key/value pair from a map, you simply set the key to none value using one of the available ways."
toomasv
12:29@loziniak This was changed long ago:
>> remove/key m 'k1
== #(
    k2: 2
)
loziniak
12:32thanks
toomasv
12:35:) IIRC it was motivated by need to represent null values in maps by none.
loziniak
12:38ok, I had also an outdated link to documentation. on github it's already fixed: https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/datatypes/map.adoc#removing-keys
greggirwin
13:54We need to see where readthedocs gets its data, or how to refresh or remove it, if it's out of date.

GiuseppeChillemi
12:34Pardon my ignorance about the sum of floating point numbers: is it normal that summing a lot of numbers like 180.0 20.4 40.6 I get a number with many digits like: 346773.38999999996
13:11(a result I have got in red summing 1000 of such numbers)
13:12I have also counted decimals after the decimal point and none was over length of 1.
endo64
14:22I think it is about mold
>> s: 20.4 + 20.4 + 20.4
== 61.2
>> mold s
== "61.199999999999996"
>> print s
61.2
GiuseppeChillemi
14:48I have used Probe
14:48I have summed and probed the total value
14:58I confirm: if you PRINT it, you get 2 digits; if you PROBE it, you get all digits. I don't now if PROBE/MODEL work is correct. To you the answer.
Respectech
16:02This is a well-known issue in the binary representation of floating-point numbers in computer science. Any language that uses floating-point numbers in the pure binary representation will run into this issue. The reason to use this type of floating-point number is speed, so most languages concerned with speed use this method.
hiiamboris
16:33Use https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pairwise_summation
16:33And round
16:35You can also sum numbers as 'money'
GiuseppeChillemi
19:30Thank you

GiuseppeChillemi
21:58Is it possible to convert from yearday to date?
hiiamboris
21:59
>> d: 1980/1/1
== 1-Jan-1980
>> d/yearday: 200
== 200
>> d
== 18-Jul-1980
ALANVF
22:01wondering if this is intentional or not? accessing the size of the window during initialization will not access the configured size, for example:
view [
	size 500x500
	base with [
		size: parent/size
	]
]

will cause the base widget to have a size of 100x100, since that's the default size for the window
22:02(also interesting, gitter is cutting off the first 5 in 500x500)
GiuseppeChillemi
22:11@hiiamboris Thank you, I remember there where accessors but I forgot how to use them
22:12And, how whould I do to list all accessors?
ne1uno
22:19print [system/catalog/accessors/date!]
GiuseppeChillemi
22:37I have made a typo and something interesting has happened:

>> probe d:week
d:week
== d:week
>> probe type? d:week
url!


Is this correct?
Respectech
22:59Yes.
GiuseppeChillemi
23:03Thank you, I am also having a problem with date accessors: I am able to calculate everything but 2 values:

* The end of the last/next/nth month, without having an auxiliary table
* The end of the year without doing math by myself to understand if the year is a leap one.
* The last week of of the year as they are sometime 52 and sometime 53

All other calculations are doable but I can't say:

date/yearday 'last
or
date/day 'last
or
date/week 'last
Respectech
23:19Here is one way to solve it without tables:
>> d2: now/date
== 28-Jun-2022
>> d2/month: d2/month + 2
== 8
>> d2/day: 1
== 1
>> d2: d2 - 1
== 31-Jul-2022
>> d2/day
== 31
23:21
>> d2/year: d2/year + 1
== 2023
>> d2/month: 1
== 1
>> d2/day: 1
== 1
>> d2: d2 - 1
== 31-Dec-2022
>> d2/yearday
== 365
23:22I did these samples in R2, but I imagine the same/similar could be done with Red.
23:26Here's a slightly shorter method:
>> d2: now/date
== 28-Jun-2022
>> d2/year: d2/year + 1
== 2023
>> d2: d2 - d2/yearday
== 31-Dec-2022
>> d2/yearday
== 365
GiuseppeChillemi
23:30Thank you.

ALANVF
00:09is there a way to animate a GIF in View?
greggirwin
00:16@GiuseppeChillemi I have old funcs for those, but it sounds like you want to avoid some approaches. In any case, there's a subtlety to weeks in year. This is old R2 code:
;ISO 8601 specifies that Week 01 of the year is the week containing
;the first Thursday; Monday is Weekday 1, Sunday is Weekday 7;
weeks-in-year: func [year [date! integer!]] [
    if date? year [year: year/year]
    jan-1:  to-date join "1-Jan-" year
    dec-31: to-date join "31-Dec-" year
    52 + either any [equal? 4 jan-1/weekday  equal? 4 dec-31/weekday] [1] [0]
]
00:24@ALANVF on window sizing, it's expected. The panel (parent) size isn't set until the entire layout is processed. Whether that could change is a good question for @qtxie or @dockimbel. That is, it could be set when size is seen, then later adjusted, but there may be a reason it doesn't do that.
ALANVF
00:24it seems counterintuitive which is why I asked about it
greggirwin
00:25On GIFs, I want to say someone wrote a codec for them in R2 and did it manually, but I don't remember it being done for Red.
ALANVF
00:25in general, window and widget resizing is all sorts of annoying and probably needs reworked at some point
00:26hmm, how hard would it be to add proper GIF support in that case?
00:27(if you don't know that's fine, just thinking it could be put on the roadmap)
greggirwin
00:30On sizing, there are things which may seem more convenient, but also have pretty easy solutions already. If @qtxie doesn't see an issue, initializing this one sooner seems and easy change.

On GIFs, there are a couple things 1) Does each OS have a standard loader for them? If not, it's a bit of work there. Then there are changes to event loop handling for them. The real question for me is value. I can see people wanting it, even if I don't. :^)
ALANVF
00:32I can look into the loader thing tomorrow :+1:
ne1uno
00:34a: load %"animated.gif" ? a locked up recent console. I only test a few images
qtxie
01:35@ALANVF Opened an issue for it. https://github.com/red/red/issues/5154
ALANVF
01:35:+1:

cosacam1
03:18Hi guys. Has anyone converted a Red program into an Android apk? How to do that? Besides, taking acount that many Android devices have different screen sizes, how to make my application to look the same in any device? RFO-BASIC! has scale_width and scale_height (or something like that) for that matter. How to in Red? Also, does Red have functions for Android's SQLite? Thanks
greggirwin
04:34Red's Android branch is quite stale at this time, and isn't production ready. When it was in active development, you could create an Android app without any other tools. SQLite bindings were never ported there AFAIK.
cosacam1
10:47However I see the demo with the tiger. It is a real example, isn't it? And there's a library for SQL in github, right?
GiuseppeChillemi
11:10Do we have a command to create a function with all locals but no specs block? Just the body argument....
cosacam1
11:57Afaik all words used in function are local unless specified as /extern
rebolek
12:25@GiuseppeChillemi I don't think there's such function. But making your own is very easy.
Oldes
12:44@cosacam1 you mean _set-words_.
12:45Having all words local would be pretty useless
cosacam1
15:28Well, I mean all vars needed in the function can be local. The function receives parameters and returns a result. That's how the black box communicates with the outside world. If any outside global var needed, it can be declared as /extern. I'm talking about information hiding. That's what Giuseppe needs. Otherwise I missunderstood his question
hiiamboris
15:36I think he wants a shortcut for function []
cosacam1
15:40Interesting
gurzgri
15:50@cosacam1 Yes! :wink: And you really only *mean* words of type set-word! :wink: The Redbol languages have no notion of "variables". They only have values. Some of these values are of type word! or it's different flavours like set-word!, get-word! etc. function only binds words of type set-word! to the context of the function it creates, with the exception of those declared as /extern.
greggirwin
16:36> However I see the demo with the tiger. It is a real example, isn't it? And there's a library for SQL in github, right?

The tiger demo is 100% real, and still runs on my Android phone, and you *may* be able to build things, but that branch is terribly out of date, so no guarantees. And, yes, there are bindings people have written, but I haven't heard of anyone using the SQLite binding on Android.
cosacam1
17:27Thanks. I think Red development for Android should be a must. Smart phones are pocket computers everyone use now 24/7. I wish I had time and knowlege to enhance Red to its top!
GiuseppeChillemi
17:49@rebolek yes, I know and it is super easy. Just asking if one exists, so I can use the standard one.
cosacam1
20:14Yes, Rebol/Red has no vars as "some value is assigned to some symbol", but rather it is "some symbol is assigned to some value that exists in memory", kinda a pointer. That's what I refered to when I spoke of variables in a function. Ok, just briefing- does uses global words; has uses globals and locals, the later are in spec; func uses globals and locals specified by /local; finally function uses local words and globals specified by /extern
cloutiy
22:48👍

ldci
17:09Hi, I have a 10x10 gif that consists of 4 colors, white, red, blue, black.

47 49 46 38 39 61 0A 00 0A 00 91 00 00 FF FF FF FF 00 00 00 00 FF 00 00 00 21 F9 04 00 00 00 00 00 2C 00 00 00 00 0A 00 0A 00 00 02 16 8C 2D 99 87 2A 1C DC 33 A0 02 75 EC 95 FA A8 DE 60 8C 04 91 4C 01 00 3B

I'm able to parse the gif file and get the gif structures such as the Global Color Table
[#{FFFFFF} #{FF0000} #{0000FF} #{000000}]

I have image data above (labeled imageData) and I'm trying to decompress the data so that I get the original image.

imageData: [8C 2D 99 87 2A 1C DC 33 A0 02 75 EC 95 FA A8 DE 60 8C 04 91 4C 01 00]

GIF packs LZW codes into bytes in LSB-first order. The first code is stored as the 3 least-significant bits of the first byte; the second code as the next 3 bits; and so on.
Any idea?
Oldes
17:54load/as bin 'gif isn't enough?
ldci
18:24@Oldes. Thanks, that’s perfect for gif image with a unique image. Now the question is about a gif file with more than 1 image :)
hiiamboris
18:28I guess you'll have to study how lempel-ziv decoding works
ldci
18:29@hiiamboris. Yes, but I do not understand the logic :)
hiiamboris
18:30find a better explanatory article ;)
ldci
18:32@hiiamboris. https://www.matthewflickinger.com/lab/whatsinagif/ is very good :)
hiiamboris
18:34yeah looks nice :+1:
greggirwin
18:44https://github.com/rebol/rebol/blob/master/src/core/u-gif.c has LZW C code in it.
ldci
18:49@greggirwin. Thanks a lot:)

cosacam1
12:08Hi. I compiled the program I've been working on into an exe. I run it and it shows a CLI window besides the main window. Is there any way to not show CLI window? Thanks
hiiamboris
12:12-t windows
12:13red --help
12:15https://github.com/red/red/wiki/%5BDOC%5D-FAQ#how-do-i-make-it-so-that-compiled-gui-programs-on-windows-dont-spawn-a-parent-console-on-startup
cosacam1
12:22Ok thanks
ldci
20:30Is Red a vaporware? No commication on https://www.red-lang.org since December 31, 2021.
ALANVF
ldci
20:31communication :)
ALANVF
20:31they're posting a new blog soon iirc
ldci
20:36I have invested a lot in Red and Rebol before and I feel abandoned: no news about programming language advances.
ALANVF
21:45lots of new things happen, we just don't always have the time to write about them
dockimbel
21:46@ldci We are finishing a complete reorganization of the project. More news soon.

GiuseppeChillemi
00:20I need to copy/deep an object but it truncates each of its series at index, and the new object has only series starting from it. Is there a command to copy/deep an object and also PRESERVING every element in series which is before their current index?
ldci
04:09@dockimbel Thanks
hiiamboris
08:08No, @GiuseppeChillemi
GiuseppeChillemi
10:04@hiiamboris I have made a little recursive function to copy/deep in each element, preserving the whole series but I don't know how to handle the danger of circular references.
Oldes
10:06Your function would have to keep a map, what was already converted (copied) to what.
10:07But I believe, that you are again in the field where you should not be. Mines are waiting for you!
hiiamboris
10:46Just let it fail. 'copy/deep' does.
GiuseppeChillemi
14:56@Oldes I am working on a datatype. made using an object which has the data container inside. It is a block which contains a table like:

make object! [
  type: 'bob-table
  Data: [[col1 col2 col3][1 2 3][4 5 6]]
  ....
]


data block is kept using Red block position. So, when a I need another instance of the data, copy/deep it,. The problem is that I get truncation of the data block, so if index is at 2, the new container will be without elements before.

make object! [
  type: 'bob-table
  Data: [[1 2 3][4 5 6]]
  ....
]

(Note: BOB = Block of Blocks ;-)
hiiamboris
15:24here's a badass trick for you:
>> o: object [type: 'bobby data: reduce [next [1 2 3] next [a b c]]]
== make object! [
    type: 'bobby
    data: [[2 3] [b c]]
]
>> p: load/as save/as #{} o 'redbin 'redbin
== make object! [
    type: 'bobby
    data: [[2 3] [b c]]
]
>> head p/data/1
== [1 2 3]
>> head p/data/2
== [a b c]
>> same? p/data/1 o/data/1
== false
GiuseppeChillemi
15:25Super Badass
23:36How do I clean a string of the LF to not have them visibile?The original string spawns multiple lines in the source and when I print it I get the following:

{^/^-^-^-insert into MY-OWN-TABLE^/^-^-^-(col1 , col2 , col3)^/^-^-^-values^/^-^-^-('1' , '2' , '3''4' , 'a' , '6');^/^-^-}


I do not want to remove them but have a clean multiline output
23:41@Oldes
> But I believe, that you are again in the field where you should not be. Mines are waiting for you!

I am also a creative, I like inventing and experimenting new solutions with the things I use. Often this leads to innoviations that could olnly be seen in the future.
23:43When Carl has started, had a strange idea of experimenting with words... Lets see where we are now!

GalenIvanov
06:20@GiuseppeChillemi It works fine for me:
>> s: {^/^-^-^-insert into MY-OWN-TABLE^/^-^-^-(col1 , col2 , col3)^/^-^-^-values^/^-^-^-('1' , '2' , '3''4' , 'a' , '6');^/^-^-}
== {^/^-^-^-insert into MY-OWN-TABLE^/^-^-^-(col1 , col2 , col3)^/^-^-^-val...
>> print s

			insert into MY-OWN-TABLE
			(col1 , col2 , col3)
			values
			('1' , '2' , '3''4' , 'a' , '6');
		
>>
GiuseppeChillemi
07:52It a side effect of having just moved from Rebol my codebase:

probe {
a
b
c
}


Red:
{^/a^/b^/c^/}


Rebol
{
a
b
c
}


I must rewire my brain to remember that I must use Print instead of Probe to see the sting printout as I have meant it to be.
18:05I am hitting some limits: I have 2 blocks with 28.000 lines each, coming from 2 queries. I have asked the system to unique set1 set2 but I receive a stack overflow. Is there any way to raise the stack? Do you have other sulutions?
greggirwin
18:09Will this work for you @GiuseppeChillemi ?
unique: function [
	"Returns a copy of the series with duplicate values removed."
	series [series!]
;	/case "Perform a case-sensitive search"
;	/skip "Treat the series as fixed size records"
;		size [integer!]
][
    res: make series length? series
    foreach val series [
        if not find/only res val [append/only res val]
    ]
    res
]

(old code, from before set ops and collect existed)
18:10If it doesn't crash, let us know how slow it is. :^)
GiuseppeChillemi
18:11Yes, thank you. I just hoped a way to rise the stack existed but I can use this function too.
18:13Why are you making RES of the same length of series?
greggirwin
18:14The problem with raising the stack size is that you'll have to do it again, and again, ...or maybe not, but then we can also ask how big the stack limit should be on modern systems.

Pre-allocating for the worst case, so appends don't slow down as it grows incrementally.
18:14Feel free to test without that, and post results.
GiuseppeChillemi
18:15I have made a mistake...
18:15I have written unique instead of difference. However, the result is the same.
18:15I will write my own one
18:16> Feel free to test without that, and post results.

I will test it!
greggirwin
18:16
series-difference: function [
	"Returns the unique symmetric difference (XOR) between two sets."
	series1 [series!]
	series2 [series!]
;	/case "Perform a case-sensitive search"
;	/skip "Treat the series as fixed size records"
;		size [integer!]
][
    res: make series1 length? series1
    series1: unique series1
    series2: unique series2
    foreach val series1 [
        if not find/only series2 val [append/only res val]
    ]
    foreach val series2 [
        if not find/only series1 val [append/only res val]
    ]
    unique res
]
GiuseppeChillemi
19:46Thank you but it took very long times. 5 minutes for 28k rows
hiiamboris
19:47convert to hash
GiuseppeChillemi
20:09I will test it

GiuseppeChillemi
23:03How do I run another instance of red from the previous directory and pass it arguments via CALL?

call {../red.exe "argument1" "argument2"}


This does not work

23:32Previous directory problem solved. It is just how to pass the arguments the problem

hiiamboris
06:57How is it a problem?
GiuseppeChillemi
07:42Using that line, my system/options/args and system/script/args ar empty.
hiiamboris
08:00You probably messed it up then.
08:00Badly, as usual ;)
GiuseppeChillemi
08:24It's a simple call! No trickery!
08:24[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/dbcC/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/dbcC/image.png)
08:26Well, solved.
23:48In Rebol I could do: 

to-date "15-jun-2022"


Red gives me an error. Is there a solution?

gltewalt
03:36load it
03:38load "15-jun-2022"
GiuseppeChillemi
07:17Thank you. I would prefer it implemented in a to function to avoid loading something dangerous.
rebolek
07:59load values aren't dangerous, if you don't do them
GiuseppeChillemi
08:57This is correct.

cosacam1
03:07Hi there! How can I know all possible error ids?
03:13I mean, I want to use cause-error. I need to know all possible err-type and err_id available. Thanks
greggirwin
03:22system/catalog/errors
gltewalt
03:24help system/catalog/errors

If you want to inspect a certain category, like math:

help system/catalog/errors/math
03:26If you want to see everything all in one glob:
probe system/catalog/errors
cosacam1
03:32Thank you very much!
gltewalt
03:41Categories and their numbers:
>> ws: words-of system/catalog/errors
== [throw note syntax script math access reserved1 reserved2 user internal]
>> foreach word  ws [print [word system/catalog/errors/:word/code]]
throw 0
note 100
syntax 200
script 300
math 400
access 500
reserved1 600
reserved2 700
user 800
internal 900
cosacam1
14:03Thanks again. By the way, I've read about catch and throw in Red by example, Helpin Red and other book Learn Red... (I don't remember it's name now) but I couldn't grasp the concept. I remember I once used them in Delphi or Borland Pascal (I guess) long ago but always related to exceptions. However those books I mentioned say they are not for error handling. Could anyone clarify me or direct me to other readings? Thank you.
Oldes
14:25throw is a special type of exception (similar to error). When it is reached, it stops current evaluation and rewinds to the state, where is catch found, where it resumes the execution.
14:25
>> test: does [print catch [ print 1 f: does [print 2 throw 4] f print "this is not reached"] print 5] test
1
2
4
5
14:27 When used with /name, it can be catched only with catch using the same name.
14:31Compare with:
>> test: does [probe try [ print 1 f: does [print 2 1 / 0] f print "this is not reached"] print 5] test
1
2
make error! [
    code: 400
    type: 'math
    id: 'zero-divide
    arg1: none
    arg2: none
    arg3: none
    near: [0]
    where: 'try
    stack: 74584876
]
5

hiiamboris
15:501st hit in google: https://chenyitian.gitbooks.io/rebol-core-user-manual/content/docs/words/throw.html
GiuseppeChillemi
16:47How should it be used for functions?
f: func [
  "My Func"
   [catch]
  arg1 [integer!]
] [
  if arg1 > 22 [make error! rejoin ["Number to big!: " arg1 " max is 22!"]
]


Is it ok?
hiiamboris
16:50where did you get that, and what are you trying to do?
GiuseppeChillemi
17:03I have read in somebody else code on Rebol2. I would like to return an error from the inside of a function to the caller one and have the message returned in console if the error is not managed. I dont remember if [catch] in specs was after or before the function description.
17:09Here is a code with it 

string-length?: func [[catch] string [any-string!] /local counter][
		either parse/all string amend [
			(counter: 0)
			any [[ascii | utf-8] (counter: counter + 1)]
		][counter][raise "String contains invalid characters."]
	]


Taken here: https://github.com/rgchris/QuarterMaster/blob/master/qm.r
greggirwin
17:25The best description for their use, IMO, is "non-local flow control".
hiiamboris
17:51http://rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore-9.html#section-7 @GiuseppeChillemi
GiuseppeChillemi
17:59Thanks, read.
18:00I have seen that in Rebol2 there is FUNCT which let you use a permanent object. Do we have it in Red?
rebolek
18:12No, but it's easy to add.
greggirwin
18:12No, but it's a mezzanine in R2 so you can see the source.
18:14Looking at the source, this line (unless object? object [object: make object! object]) reminds me of Ladislav's default, which I used sometimes. Lines like the above are *awful* IMO.
18:17I have a number of experimental versions for Red, which extended the idea to support defaulting multiple words in one call.
GiuseppeChillemi
18:17Are they pubblic?
greggirwin
18:19Option 1, works like set with a block of words and a block of values.
default: function [
	"Sets the value(s) one or more words refer to, if the word is none or unset"
	'word "Word, or block of words, to set."
	value "Value, or block of values, to assign to words."
][
	def: func [w "Word" v "Value"][
		; We're setting one word, so don't need to use set/only.
		if any [not value? :w  none? get w][set w :v]
		get w
	]
	; CASE is used, rather than COMPOSE, to avoid the block allocation.
	case [
		word?  :word [def word :value]
		block? :word [
			collect [
				repeat i length? word [
					keep/only def word/:i either block? :value [value/:i][:value]
				]
			]
		]
	]
]
e.g. [
	default a 1
	default [a b c] [2 3 4]
	default f :append
	;default [g h i j "k" #l m] [1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7]
	;default [g h i j "k" #l m n o] [. . . . . . . .]
	default [g h i j k l m] [1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7]
	default [g h i j k l m n o] [. . . . . . . .]
]
18:20Option 2, uses a key-value block approach. 
; word(s)-value pairs interface.
default: function [
	"Sets the value(s) one or more words refer to, if the word is none or unset"
	input [block!] "word(s) value pairs"
][
	def: func [w "Word" v "Value"][
		; We're setting one word, so don't need to use set/only.
		if any [not value? :w  none? get w][set w :v]
		get w
	]
	; CASE is used, rather than COMPOSE, to avoid the block allocation.
	foreach [word value] input [
		case [
			word?  :word [def word :value]
			block? :word [
				collect [
					repeat i length? word [
						keep/only def word/:i either block? :value [value/:i][:value]
					]
				]
			]
		]
	]
]
e.g. [
	default [a 1]
	default [
		a 2
		b 3
		c 4
		[d e] -1
	]
	default compose [f (:append)]
	default [g 1 h 2 i [3] j 4 k 5 l 6 m 7]
	default [[g h i j k l m n o] '.]
	print [a b c d e :f g h mold i j k l m n o]
]
18:21The basic version is just for single words.
default: func [
	"Set a value for the word if the word is not set or is none."
	'word
	value
][
	if any [not value? :word  none? get word] [
		set word :value
	]
	get word
]
hiiamboris
18:25I'm using default a lot. But for the case above it's not useful as it would create the object even if it's not needed.
greggirwin
18:26You mean the case in funct?
hiiamboris
18:26Yeah
18:26Or rather it will cause an error
18:27Oh it depends..
18:27
>> object object [x: 1]
*** Script Error: object does not allow object! for its spec argument
*** Where: object
*** Near : 1
*** Stack: run eval-command do-command try-do object 

>> make object! object [x: 1]
== make object! [
    x: 1
]
greggirwin
18:27Yes, it would need to be extended if that's an issue.
hiiamboris
18:28All tradeoffs. I tried feeding a block to default, but then it's not any more readable than any.
greggirwin
18:28That is, if you want control over making necessary values or not.
18:29For me the main value by *far* is having the name there itself, because it's so meaningful.
hiiamboris
18:29Also default won't check for object vs block, only falsey values. So not an option here anyway.
greggirwin
18:46The case of object only allowing blocks is one of those subtle things that we don't often think about. Where it forces you to use make or copy, which are very clear in meaning. Object is declarative, but a function.

cosacam1
12:47Hi. a: 22 b: 22 a =? b ; true but c: [3 2 1] d: [3 2 1] c =? d ; false Isn't it confusing?
hiiamboris
14:24but if you don't get the meaning of =?, why use it?
cosacam1
14:39I do get the meaning of =? It is used to find out if two objects have the same id, if they both point to the same location in memory. So, a and b have the same value but they are different words. I guess they are binded to different data, in different memory locations. In that case =? should return false. I took the example from Red by example.
hiiamboris
14:43there are basically 2 kinds of values in Red: series and immediates
14:43immediate, like 2 or 'word or #[none] fit into a single cell
14:43series do not
14:44and you can append stuff to them
14:44so they fit no measure eventually, save for the amount of RAM Red can address
14:44series are a cell that points to a memory location
14:45by same? or =? you ask if the cells are identical, which in case of series means also pointing to the same memory location, but in case of an immediate it's just the cell itself
14:47pseudo example: cell1: [type: block! address: 153914916] and cell2: [type: block! address: 7140601] are not identical, but cell3: [type: integer! value: 123] and cell4: [type: integer! value: 123] are
14:48when you write a =? b both a and b get evaluated, and =? receives their *values* (which are cells)
14:48so it's not about words at all!
14:48you wanna compare words, type 'a =? 'a
14:49because 'a will evaluate into an a value which is a word
14:49makes any sense?
cosacam1
15:13Yes. Thanks for your explanation. Never heard of inmediaates. Just words, series, blocks, etc. A lot of useful data-types Rebol and Red have.
hiiamboris
15:20
>> ? immediate!
IMMEDIATE! is a typeset! value: [datatype! none! logic! char! integer! float! word! set-word! lit-word! get-word! refinement! issue! typeset! pair! percent! tuple! time! handle! date! money!]
cosacam1
15:30My boss asks me to program in Python. And my probably-next boss too! I know it's popular and easy to learn. I studied 4 years ago but I could not use it for several reasons. I discovered Rebol and got fascinated: how could it do sooooo much with tooooo little, only 844 kb! Then moved to Red, the same! Well, I am comparing Python and Red to show myself which is better (so far I preffer Red) I took the samples from ellibrodepython.com and I'm studing and rewriting them in Red. Today I was studing Python's is which is equivalent to Red's =? Wish me luck!
15:33I need to study more Red. Inmediate was there and never saw it. I need time. I told you once I'm a very busy guy... And I'm 60 already.
hiiamboris
15:41Nice! ☻
15:42@cosacam1 might find this useful https://github.com/red/red/wiki/A-short-introduction-to-Red-for-Python-programmers
Oldes
15:43If I can give you an advise, use Python or whatever else to earn some money and have Rebol or Red as a hobby. Btw... you may easily use Rebol or Red with Python... I was using Rebol scripts to control Python powered AI code recently.
GiuseppeChillemi
16:02I still don't know which language to learn other than Red. I need to develop for web and mobile and also do some AI. Candidates are Phyton, C#, Javascript and Flutter. C# because it works well on all environments. I don't know in which order to start or if I should change some of the candidates.
hiiamboris
16:05good luck with those, esp C#
cosacam1
16:05@hiiamboris Thanks for the link. I see somebody else did the job. It's a good book.
Oldes
16:06Knowing Javascript (or its clones) cannot hurt anybody. When you need AI, than there is only Python I guess (if you don't want to write everything from scratch).
hiiamboris
16:06@cosacam1 kudos to @Galenivanov and PM him if you have ideas how to improve the read
cosacam1
16:11@Oldes Yes, that's what I do. I wrote a program in Rebol to search in the Bible, read it and make sketches for sermons. I recently enhanced the app with Red. I want to make a version for Android. Let's see.
GiuseppeChillemi
16:11@hiiamboris Which other suggestions to you have from your experience?
hiiamboris
16:13none, sorry ;)
I don't write web or AI stuff
GiuseppeChillemi
16:14Nice news, so you are always committed into doing great stuff on Red!
cosacam1
16:19Two things I like most of Rebol/Red is VID and parse. I wonder why regex is so obfuscated with those weird symbols when it should be written in english as in R/R parse. Have you ever seen a kivy book? Just to install it is a nightmare. And so many lines for a simple interface. There's nothing like VID.
16:32I read in Helpin Red that there is Nenad's Cheyenne, a small server for running Red scripts in the backend, for web development. I've never worked for the web
hiiamboris
16:48Well, regex is concise. It was a nice solution for simple single-line pattern matching in the shell. People just abused it too much.
cosacam1
17:58By the way. Is there an important market for Red coders? You guys earn your living with Red or just use it for hobby?
gltewalt
18:17@GiuseppeChillemi learn Javascript. There are libraries for Android development, and tensorflow has a js library for A.I.
18:22https://github.com/getify/You-Dont-Know-JS

riprwwa
01:21C#: good for backend, graphical UIs (WPF, MAUI), good for mobile apps (Xamarin, Uno); pretty big ecosystem; it's statically typed so in some aspect less surprises; reasonably fast; lots of people to ask for help

Javascript: pretty easy to learn (though it has its quirks), good for backend (Nodejs), frontend (vanilla or using any of lots of web frameworks), mobile (hybrid apps with Ionic or Meteor or others) and even desktop (Electron); big ecosystem; dynamic (with quirks); lots of people to ask for help. For web development you might also need the other two in the web trinity: HTML and CSS
cosacam1
02:17And all this could be done with Red if it had enough libraries as far as it is a full stack programming language. Right? I've spent all my programmer's life developing desktop apps with only one tool name it Basic In many flavors or Turbo/Borland Pascal/Delphi or Game Maker without needing almost anything else. It's difficult for me to link all those software pieces in order to get a hugh application with a lot of dependencies and error prone if they are not so well linkeda. Yes I know there's no need to reinvent the wheel but... how many car brands exist right now in the world? And they innovate all the time! That's the beauty of programming, the best job ever!
greggirwin
02:40:+1:
riprwwa
04:13I agree with you @cosacam1 that's why I'm here :), was just responding to @GiuseppeChillemi who seemed to be pondering a choice in programming languages for web and mobile and maybe even AI (there's at least ML.NET for C# and TenshorFlow.js for Javascript)
pekr
06:52What we can see in terms of our enterprise, is basically partners using two streams - you are either a React (Native) team, or an Angular + Flutter team :-) I have seen just one company around using Xamarin.
GalenIvanov
07:36@cosacam1 Hi! I wrote [A-short-introduction-to-Red-for-Python-programmers](https://github.com/red/red/wiki/A-short-introduction-to-Red-for-Python-programmers) last summer. I'm sure there are many things that can be improved and I'll appreciate your feedback.
ldci
17:33@GalenIvanov Your text is excellent and it woulbe important to add some supplementary samples :)
GalenIvanov
18:06@ldci Thank you!
ldci
18:15@GalenIvanov Have a look to what we did with Toomas for LZW compression/decompression compaired to python :)
18:16Most of my students use python and are really impressed when I show a reduced code with Red/REBOL:)
pekr
18:22My team uses JAVA long time. Our company got acquired by big real estate one. The original tem used Kotlin (JAVA), but left the company and new team uses Python and React infrastructure. Now my team should learn Python as well, but is not happy about that. It is not easy to switch tools you are used to for long years.
GalenIvanov
18:28@ldci I saw a discussion of LZW compression for GIFs but I don't think I've seen the final result. Can you share a link?
Do you students want to learn Red/Rebol?
ldci
18:46@GalenIvanov I think that Toomas will relesea the code on Githun after some controls. Have a look to red/red/system room:)
GalenIvanov
18:49OK, thanks!
ldci
18:57Sorry release on Github.I’m exhausted:)

GiuseppeChillemi
09:08I have a problem creating my one-of? function. It will return true if the data passed is any if the possible options. Well, in shich order would you write the args and why?

one-of? data [possible options]


or

one-of?  [possible options] data



hiiamboris
09:10data has-one-of? [possible options]
09:10because it reads
rebolek
09:10The convention is data first. There are exceptions to this rule, but generally you should abide by it.
GiuseppeChillemi
09:10So you would make it as an operator?
rebolek
09:11If you feel adventurous, go with infix operator, but that's not my preference.
GiuseppeChillemi
09:11Pardon, the question was for @hiiamboris
09:12@hiiamboris So you would make it as an operator?
09:12@rebolek
> The convention is data first. There are exceptions to this rule, but generally you should abide by it.

have you a list of the rules?
rebolek
09:15I can't find it now, IIRC it was called Rebol style guide or something like that.
hiiamboris
09:15> @hiiamboris So you would make it as an operator?

Definitely
rebolek
09:16There's this http://rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore-5.html#section-5 but it doesn't mention the order of the args.
hiiamboris
09:16has-one-of or is-one-of depending on what you're doing
GiuseppeChillemi
09:17I will make it an infix when I will leave Rebol2 totally, which should happen soon
hiiamboris
09:17otherwise just find [options] data, no need for a function
rebolek
09:20Ok, let me correct myself. By data I meant the series you are searching in, so in your example [possible options].
GiuseppeChillemi
09:20@rebolek
> I can't find it now, IIRC it was called Rebol style guide or something like that

Why don't you a list of rules, so the community has reference?
rebolek
09:20find [options] data is ok, if data can be just one value.
09:21> Why don't you a list of rules, so the community has reference?

Carl set those rules, not me :-)
09:21It's just that the documentation is scattered an hard to search...
GiuseppeChillemi
09:25@hiiamboris
> otherwise just find [options] data, no need for a function

It manages the special datatype case:

one-of?: func [
	"Returns true if a value is found in allowed values"
	allowed-values [block!]
	value "The value to find, datatypes are searched as words"

	/only "TBD:"
	/local
	out-data
] [
	
	either not block? :value [
		if datatype? :value [value: to-word value]
		out-data: not none? find allowed-values :value
	] [
		forall value [
			out-data: not none? find allowed-values value/1 
			if out-data = false [break]
		]
	]
	out-data
]

09:26I need it for checking for datatypes as function does.
toomasv
09:28@GiuseppeChillemi Can you pleeease stop using not none?. It hurts eyes, sorry! :)
Oldes
09:30And if you want to check datatypes like function does, than you should use datatypes and typesets instead of words and block.
09:31
>> allowed-types: make typeset! [string! file!]
== make typeset! [string! file!]
>> find allowed-types string!
== true
>> find allowed-types integer!
== false
GiuseppeChillemi
09:34@toomasv I just discovered that a series at position = true
09:35Coming from Rebol, the found? function still confuses me
09:35Even on Rebol it is not needed
Oldes
09:36And if you really need something like that, than use:
[
    either block? :value [
        forall value [
            if find allowed-values value/1 [return true]
        ]
    ][
        if datatype? :value [value: to word! value]
        if find allowed-values :value [return true]
    ] 
    false
]
GiuseppeChillemi
09:37@Oldes
> And if you want to check datatypes like function does, than you should use datatypes and typesets instead of words and block.

I have no typesets in Rebol2. Also the function is not only meant for datatypes but for any value. I will create a datatype only version to check for datatypes.
09:38And if you really need something like that, than use: yes, now I can definitely abandon the found? mental cage.
09:44But why was found? created? Was there a time were not or if like functions were not handling truthy values or series were not truthy?
rebolek
09:47I'm not sure about found? but I find true? very useful and miss it in Red.
GiuseppeChillemi
09:54I think so: true? <something> is often better than true =
hiiamboris
10:00not the same thing
rebolek
10:01true
GiuseppeChillemi
10:04Yes you are right, True? is for truthy and true is just for logic
toomasv
10:06@GiuseppeChillemi How about this:
one-of?: func [
	allowed [block!] "Parse rule"
	value [any-type!]
][
	if not block? :value [value: append copy [] :value]
	parse value [some allowed]
]

>> one-of? ['a | integer!] 'a
== true
>> one-of? ['a | integer!] [a 1]
== true
>> one-of? ['a | integer!] [a 1.5]
== false
>> one-of? ['a | function!] does [nothing]
== true
>> one-of? [word! | quote 1] [a 1]
== true
GiuseppeChillemi
10:13@toomasv
My rulify function: seems perfect to manage your allowed arg.

rulify: func [
	"Converts a block of words to a rule [one two three] -> [one | two | three]"
	elements [block!] 
	/local 
	out-data
	element
] [
	;TBD: Validate elements
	;TBD: make a vaersion just for datatypes

	
	out-data: copy []
	forall elements [
		element: first elements
		;probe type? element-value
		
		case [
			any [word? :element string? element] [
				append out-data to-lit-word element

			]
			
			;lit-word? element [
			;	
			;]

			datatype? element [
				element: to-lit-word to-word element ;you need this for datatypes on Rebol
				append out-data element
			]
		]
		if (length? elements) > 1 [append out-data [|]]
	]
	out-data
]

10:15
probe rulify [block! word!] 
= ['block! | 'word!]
10:16It is a work in progess, I need to learn how to handle lit-words in Parse.
10:17
probe rulify [hello word]
= ['hello | 'word]
toomasv
10:17> I need to learn how to handle lit-words in Parse

>> parse ['a][lit-word!]
== true
>> parse ['a][quote 'a]
== true
GiuseppeChillemi
10:18Ok, so I should only output [quote 'a] inside the rule
10:22Done, thank you

rulify: func [
	"Converts a block of words to a rule [one two three] -> [one | two | three]"
	elements [block!] 
	/local 
	out-data
	element
] [
	;TBD: Validate elements
	;TBD: make a vaersion just for datatypes

	
	out-data: copy []
	forall elements [
		element: first elements
		;probe type? element-value
		
		case [
			any [word? :element string? element] [
				append out-data to-lit-word element

			]
			
			lit-word? element [
				element: reduce ['quote element]
				append out-data element
		
			]

			datatype? element [
				element: to-lit-word to-word element ;you need this for datatypes on Rebol
				append out-data element
			]
		]
		if (length? elements) > 1 [append out-data [|]]
	]
	out-data
]

probe rulify [hello word 'people]
= ['hello | 'word | quote 'people]


toomasv
11:12My version:
rulify: func [rule [block!]][
   rule: copy/deep rule 
   forall rule [
      case [
         all [
            not all [word? :rule/1 #"!" = last to-string rule/1] 
            any [any-word? :rule/1 integer? :rule/1]
         ][
            insert rule 'quote 
            rule: next rule
         ] 
         block? :rule/1 [
            rule/1: rulify rule/1
         ]
      ] 
      if not last? rule [
         insert next rule '| 
         rule: next rule
      ]
   ] 
   rule
]

one-of?: function [
	allowed [block!] "To be rulified"
	value [any-type!]
	/plain
][
	if not block? :value [value: append copy [] :value]
	if not plain [allowed: rulify allowed]
	parse/case value [some allowed]
]

>> rulify [a :b c: 'd 1 1.5 #hi [deeper] "string" ]
== [quote a | quote :b | quote c: | quote 'd | quote 1 | 1.5 | #hi | [quote deeper] | "string"]
>> one-of? [a :b c: 'd 1 1.5 #hi [deeper] "string" ] [deeper 1 a]
== true
>> one-of? [a :b c: 'd 1 1.5 #hi [deeper] "string" ] [deeper 1 a :c]
== false

But there are some parse's quirks
>> one-of? ['d] 'd
== true
>> one-of? ['d] quote 'd
== true
>> one-of?/plain [quote 'd] 'd
== true

GiuseppeChillemi
11:36This solution is an effective check if value belongs to a group of values or to a datatype. There could be some of interesting variations for the allowed arg:

* Checking for ranges
* Checking using a bound block
* Checking using an all/any block
* Checking using more convoluted parse rules as validation arguments
* Checking passing a check function

I will play with them
11:38And give to this extended version the name valid?
11:49@rebolek I have understood why one-of? arg [word! string!] seems better this way on the first instance: it is because we are used to this order of things in function specs dialect. I have encountered this effect other times in my journey into the Redbol world.
11:51The sequence of visual symbols triggers the knowledge of the function specs dialect in our neurons and we are driven by that.
gurzgri
16:02@GiuseppeChillemi
> why was found? created?

found? returns a value of type logic!, I remember seeing it used in patterns like pick [green red] found? find options value.
The irony in this is, that in R2 it was implemented as not none? :value — makes me feel sorry for @toomasv ;)
Oldes
16:13I think that some prehistoric Rebol version required logic! in conditionals, so there was need for the found?
16:16https://www.curecode.org/rebol3/ticket.rsp?id=2053
gurzgri
16:31:+1: Nice discussion between BrianH and Ladislav back then.
GiuseppeChillemi
16:33Nice to see we still have trace of past discussions and decisions.
toomasv
16:59@gurzgri NP, I just have to put on stronger R2-glasses.
greggirwin
18:51On arg order, I have the same recollection as @rebolek, and we should address these notes in a new style guide, to go with new docs. My mental note, based on what I think Carl may have said (so many caveats), is "Order args by importance." So the most important args go first. Another consideration is chaining. It's common to return a set of data, so making the target data the first arg aids chaining.
toomasv
19:35First material on which you work, then tool with which you work, and then all the tilu-lilu. First the stone, then the chisel.
rebolek
20:02@toomasv great explanation!
toomasv

GiuseppeChillemi
16:31With these rules I have only a problem. When you have a block/ctx of values that describe the next block, then they should come first.
Think about: 
button "click me" 30x20 [
  actor code here
]


you understand where [code here] actor applies, because descriptive elements are before.

If you write a section generator like:

my-section: reduce [type text size         [
   
    code
     
   
    code

    

    code


   ]


]  make context! [type: 'button text: "click me" size: 30x20]

in this case, having a xbind which accept inverted arguments, it is more readable: 

my-section: reduce xbind make context! [type: 'button text: "click me" size: 30x20]  [type text size         [ 
....
.... 
   ]
]

rebolek
19:00R3 has with which has reversed order of args than bind
GiuseppeChillemi
20:07Yes, I have my own with too. Such kind of phrases needs a premise with the details to be read correctly, or you won't understand what is appending. Otherwise you need to go back and forth, which also causes confusion.

fergus4
18:01Trying to load XML (using Chris' altXML). Red really bogs down on large files. Rebol has no issue on same files using rebol version of altXML. What is the issue and can I do something on my end?
hiiamboris
18:22just how huge your file is?
rebolek
18:23@fergus4 there's built-in XML codec, maybe you can try this.

One possible improvement is turning the XML codec into a scheme. Recently I made an experimental CSV scheme that can load much bigger files than CSV codec. XML scheme would be a bit more complicated but doable.
hiiamboris
18:26it's not builtin ;)
cosacam1
19:08@fergus4 Some time ago I told the forum that load was too slow compared to read in Red, not so in Rebol. A little later I asked something to the forum for some other reason, the solution was to download the most recent version of Red. Well, the load delay was solved too, so update.
fergus4
20:13My red build is from July 19. I too thought XML was added with json? Guess not...
20:13File is only 3 megs . I have a 27 meg file further down my list of xml files....
20:14I only need the first page so I parsed out what I needed to load-xml on....it works for what I need...
hiiamboris
20:34@fergus4 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rebolek/red/c7205002839fefffdc3ba58e98091d780013df3d/environment/codecs/XML.red

greggirwin
04:37Profiling I did on @rebolek's XML codec came out to ~1.5MB/s, and it handled a 24M file just fine.
fergus4
15:47@hiiamboris Thanks. This works. And I like the block layout. Thanks @rebolek
hiiamboris
15:54@fergus4 it supports as high as 3 formats: https://gitlab.com/rebolek/markup/-/blob/main/README.md
15:54all with their own benefits and drawbacks

ldci
14:41Gurus’ help. New test for decoding compressed gif data, but without success.
#!/usr/local/bin/red
Red [
]
;--Based on Rebol3-master src/core/u-gif.c

;-- 4 colors 10x10 test image
codes_str: #{02168C2D99872A1CDC33A00275EC95FAA8DE608C04914C0100}
;codes: [140 45 153 135 42 28 220 51 160 2 117 236 149 250 168 222 96 140 4 145 76 1]

MAX_STACK_SIZE:	4096 ;--2 ** 12 max
NULL_CODE:		-1

;--for tests
color_table: []
append color_table to-binary white
append color_table to-binary red
append color_table to-binary blue
append color_table to-binary black


decodeLZW: func [
	data		[binary!]
	h			[integer!]
	w			[integer!]		
][
	data_size:  	to-integer copy/part skip data 0 1 	;-- 2 OK 
	nBytes: 		to-integer copy/part skip data 1 1	;--22 bytes OK
	clear_code: 	1 << data_size
	end_of_info: 	clear_code + 1
	available: 		clear_code + 2
	old_code:		NULL_CODE
	code_size:		data_size + 1 
	code_mask:		(1 << code_size) - 1 
	prefix: 		copy [] 
	suffix:			copy []
	top_stack:		copy []
	pixel_stack:	copy []	
	datum: bits: count: first: 0
	
	repeat i MAX_STACK_SIZE [
		append prefix 0
		append suffix 0
	]
	
	code: 0
	while [code < clear_code] [
		;prefix/(code + 1): 0
		suffix/(code + 1): code
		code: code + 1
	]
	
	;print [clear_code end_of_info available old_code code_size code_mask]
	
	
	data: skip data 2;--codes begin here
	y: 0 
	while [y < h][
		x: 0 
		while [x < w][
			;--if we don't have enough bits
			if bits < code_size [
				;--if we run out of bytes in the packet
				if count = 0 [
					;--get size of next packet
					count: to-integer copy/part data 1
					;--if 0, end of image
					if (count == 0) [break]
				]
				;--add bits from next byte and adjust counters
				data: next data
				datum: datum + (to-integer copy/part data 1) << bits
				bits: bits + 8
				count: count - 1
				continue
			]
			
			;--isolate the code bits and adjust the temps
			code: datum AND code_mask
			datum: datum >> code_size
			bits: bits - code_size
			;--sanity check
			if any [code > available code = end_of_info] [
				;print [code ": sanity check"] 
				;break
			]
			;--time to reset the tables
			if code = clear_code [
				;print [code ": Clear"]
				code_size:	data_size + 1
				code_mask:	(1 << code_size) - 1 
				available: 	clear_code + 2
				old_code:	NULL_CODE
				continue
			]
			;--if we are the first code, just stack it
			if (old_code = NULL_CODE) [
				append top_stack suffix/(code + 1)
				old_code: code
				first_code: code
				continue
			]
			in_code: code
			if (code = available)[
				;print [code ": Available"]
				append top_stack first_code
				code: old_code 
			]
			while [code > clear_code][
				append top_stack suffix/(code + 1)
				code: prefix/(code + 1)
			]
			first_code: suffix/(code + 1)
			;--add a new string to the table
			if (available >= MAX_STACK_SIZE) [break]
			
			append top_stack first_code
			prefix/(available): old_code
			suffix/(available + 1): first_code
			available: available + 1 
			if all [(available and code_mask = 0) (available < MAX_STACK_SIZE)][
				code_size: code_size + 1
				code_mask: code_mask + available
				;print [code_size code_mask]
			]
			top_stack: back top_stack
			old_code: in_code
			x: x + 1
		]
		y: y + 1
	];--end y
	?? top_stack
	;--;--we get the pixel color  
	colors: copy #{}
	foreach c top_stack [
		append colors color_table/(c + 1)
	]
	colors
]

rgb: decodeLZW codes_str 10 10

;-- what we should get in top_stack
[
1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 
1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 
1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 
1 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 2 2
1 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 2 2 
2 2 2 0 0 0 0 1 1 1
2 2 2 0 0 0 0 1 1 1
2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1
2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1
2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1
]
comment [
im: make image! reduce [10x10 green]
im/rgb: rgb
save %test.png im  
call/shell "open test.png" 
]

toomasv
10:55Hi, @ldci! Here's my solution. Not sure yet, if it is general enough, but works for this little example:
Red []

data: #{02168C2D99872A1CDC33A00275EC95FAA8DE608C04914C0100}
aim: [4 1 6 6 2 9 9 7 8 10 2 12 1 14 15 6 0 21 0 10 7 22 23 18 26 7 10 29 13 24 12 18 16 36 12 5]

indices: copy []
codes: copy [] 
to-code: func [c [string!]][
    to integer! debase/base pad/left/with copy c 8 #"0" 2
]
decode: func [data [binary!] /local prev code byte][
    N:   data/1
    CC:  2 ** N
    EOI: CC + 1
    available: CC + 2
    sz:  N + 1
    z:   0
    stream: copy "" 
    clear indices
    clear codes
    data: next data
    while [all [0 < count: data/1 data: next data]][
        parse data [collect into stream count [
            copy byte skip 
            keep (enbase/base byte 2) 
            (stream: head stream) data:
        ]] 
    ]
    collect/into [
        while [not empty? c: take/last/part stream sz][
            keep code: to-code c 
            case [
                code = CC  [
                    sz: N + 1 
                    code-table: make map! copy/deep [0 [0] 1 [1] 2 [2] 3 [3] 4 -1 5 -2]
                    continue
                ]
                code = EOI [
                    new-line/skip indices true 10 
                    probe indices 
                    probe codes = aim 
                    return codes
                ]
            ]
            either selected: select code-table code [
                append indices selected
                unless prev [prev: code continue]
                k: first selected
                available: length? code-table
                put code-table available new: append copy select code-table prev k
                if 2 ** sz - 1 = available [sz: sz + 1]
            ][
                k: first selected: select code-table prev
                append indices new: append copy selected k
                put code-table code new
            ]
            prev: code
        ]
    ] codes
]
decode data

Output:
>> do %giftest.red
[
    1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 
    1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 
    1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 
    1 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 2 2 
    1 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 2 2 
    2 2 2 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 
    2 2 2 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 
    2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 
    2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 
    2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1
]
true
== [4 1 6 6 2 9 9 7 8 10 2 12 1 14 15 6 0 21 0 10 7 22 23 18 26 7 10 29 13 24 12 18 16 36 12 5]

`
ldci
14:06@toomasv Thanks for your solution :)
toomasv
14:16:+1:

koba-yu
10:50Just Sharing for other VS Code Extension fun.

I have tried new Red binary. As long as I tested, to enable VS Code extension, I need to copy both console binary and GUI console binary to C:\ProgramData\Red\ and rename them, red-29jul22-95f4da55a.exe to console-29jul22-95f4da55a.exe and gui-console-29jul22-95f4da55a.exe to gui-console-29jul22-95f4da55a.exe. Then I set VS Code settings "Red Path" to C:/ProgramData/Red/gui-console-29jul22-95f4da55a.exe and Intelligence works.

It seems the sourece code around [here](https://github.com/red/VScode-extension/blob/master/src/RedConfiguration.ts#L29) requires the binary's prefix name as above.
hiiamboris
11:01Thanks for pointing that out. Feel free to submit a PR there, I guess ;)
koba-yu
12:09@hiiamboris i have no experience to write codes of extension and TypeScript but i’ll give myself a try tomorrow, thank you😊
hiiamboris
12:43You're capable, I'm sure you'll manage ;)
toomasv
14:41@ldci Working [gif-parser](https://github.com/toomasv/LZW/blob/main/GIF.red) (static only). See example in the end.
ldci
15:27@toomasv *** Internal Error: stack overflow *** Where: code *** Near : none code-size: 0 color-table: copy [] local-color-table: *** Stack: do-file
toomasv
15:32@ldci What gif did you try to decode?
15:41[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/Iopx/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/Iopx/image.png)
ldci
15:55@toomasv It’s OK just an error in file name. I’m tired :)
16:00[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/kZHN/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/kZHN/image.png)
16:00Nice Toomas :)
dockimbel
16:05@toomasv I'm very interested in integrating in Red runtime library a GIF-anim decoder if you have one.
toomasv
16:07@dockimbel I don't have it yet, but I'm working on it.
16:08@ldci Nice! :+1:
16:09Tried DiaGrammar on it:
[![gif-parse.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/X2Jz/thumb/gif-parse.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/X2Jz/gif-parse.png)
ldci
16:25@toomasv Very elegant :)
toomasv
16:28@ldci Thanks!
16:28[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/iYXn/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/iYXn/image.png)
greggirwin
16:37Great work as always @toomasv.
toomasv
16:43Thanks!
ldci
17:12@toomasv dancing.gif doesn’t work for me. *** Script Error: invalid argument: none *** Where: set-path *** Near : colors system/words/view [image img] *** Stack: view
toomasv
17:16Works like charm here on W10. Interesting, what are our differences? Platform?
ldci
17:20@toomasv W11 with Parallels desktop on Mac ARM 64-bits:)
17:21I’ll test on Mac 32-bit
toomasv
17:23Are these same for you?
>> length? gif/codes
== 29904
>> length? gif/indices
== 57840
>> length? gif/colors
== 173520
ldci
17:31@toomasv Same problem with Mac 32-bit
greggirwin
19:32Endian issue perhaps?
qtxie
23:55> Just Sharing for other VS Code Extension fun.
>


We need to update the VS Code Extentsion for it.

toomasv
13:35First try on gif animation:
do %GIF.red
GIF/decode %sample_2_animation.gif
im1: make image! reduce [gif/images/1/size gif/images/1/colors]
im2: make image! reduce [gif/images/2/size gif/images/2/colors]
im3: make image! reduce [gif/images/3/size gif/images/3/colors]
view compose/deep [
    panel [
        at (gif/images/1/pos) image im1 
        at (gif/images/2/pos) image im2 hidden 
        at (gif/images/3/pos) image im3 hidden
    ] 
    rate (100 / gif/images/1/delay) 
    on-time [
        case [
            tick % 3 = 0 [face/pane/2/visible?: face/pane/3/visible?: false] 
            tick % 3 = 1 [face/pane/2/visible?: true] 
            tick % 3 = 2 [face/pane/3/visible?: true]
        ] 
        tick: tick + 1
    ] 
    do [tick: 0]
]

[![traffic-light](https://toomasv.red/images/Animations/traffic-light.gif)](https://toomasv.red/images/Animations/traffic-light.gif)
ldci
14:07@toomasv Great :)
toomasv
14:45Thanks, @ldci!
ldci
16:17@toomasv 

Red [
]

do %GIF.red
GIF/decode %1.gif
im1: make image! reduce [gif/images/1/size gif/images/1/colors]
im2: make image! reduce [gif/images/2/size gif/images/2/colors]
im3: make image! reduce [gif/images/3/size gif/images/3/colors]
im4: make image! reduce [gif/images/4/size gif/images/4/colors]

view compose/deep [
	title "Toomas's Animated Gif"
    bb: base im1 
    rate (5 / gif/images/1/delay) 
    on-time [
        case [
            tick % 4 = 0 [bb/image: im1] 
            tick % 4 = 1 [bb/image: im2] 
            tick % 4 = 2 [bb/image: im3]
            tick % 4 = 3 [bb/image: im4]
        ] 
        tick: tick + 1
    ] 
    do [tick: 0]
]

16:171.gif
toomasv
ldci
16:21[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/5s7q/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/5s7q/image.png)
16:23@toomasv. For large gif file (here 522x547 pixels by image) decoding is very long.
toomasv
16:25Yeah, no optimisations so far.
ldci
16:31We can also use external programs Convert -coalesce 1.gif frame_%d.png
toomasv
16:42[![spiral](https://toomasv.red/images/Animations/spiral1.gif)](https://toomasv.red/images/Animations/spiral1.gif)
16:59This was decoded several minutes
[![giphy](https://toomasv.red/images/Animations/giphy.gif)](https://toomasv.red/images/Animations/giphy.gif)
pekr
17:10What is gif/decode? Doesn't it work like a codec?
toomasv
18:01It is not built as codec. Or rather, I've never looked how a codec is built. Just a research of gif's belly. And exercise in LZW decompression.
greggirwin
18:08@dockimbel if 0.7 is freezing after IO is merged, and we won't have View for some time on the new roadmap, where does GIF support come in, and for what use cases?
qtxie
22:47> What is gif/decode? Doesn't it work like a codec?

Why you want it to be a codec? Is it include it in your program and use gif/decode not enough?

pekr
04:45We could state the same about bitmap, jpeg, png and oter formats too then ....
cosacam1
09:10Hi. I want a field to accept only digits. I've tried with on-key event and parse to reject any non digit char but with no avail. Something like f: field on-key [unless parse key [digit][key: none]] having previously defined digit: charset "0123456789"I've read Helpin Red and Learn Red Fundamentals but the examples there are not suitable to my needs. Red by example refers to a url which don't show. Thanks
09:21@galen ivanov Can you read spanish? The document I'm writing comparing Python to Red is in spanish. I would like to send you what I have done so far so you give me your opinion and use whatever you need to improve yours, which by the way is very good.
hiiamboris
10:19
>> digit: charset "0123456789^H"
>> system/view/capturing?: on
>> view [field focus on-detect [all [char? event/key not find digit event/key 'stop]]]

@cosacam1
GalenIvanov
12:05@cosacam1 No, unfortunately I don't speak (or read) Spanish. Btw I would love to be able to read Jorge Luis Borges in original.
gurzgri
14:30
Red
collect [parse [] [(keep [value]) (keep/only [block])]] ;== [value [block]]
parse [] [collect [keep pick ([value]) keep ([block])]] ;== [[value] [block]]

Trying to overcome the collect [ parse [ (keep ...) habit and instead use the outperforming parse [ collect [ keep (...) form more often. The above [difference when keeping blocks](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/parse.adoc#collect) keeps getting in my way though. Is there really no way to collect the values of a block instead of keeping the block as a value with parse?
hiiamboris
16:05Open an REP? It was decided that keep and keep pick act the same: https://github.com/red/red/issues/4198 and so far nobody challenged it with a real world use case
16:06I'm just using append when I need to mix blocks in. Not a fan of collect.
16:08For parse, IMO collect after should not even exist, and collect into should always append.
Oldes
17:37@gurzgri I was [asking there](https://gitter.im/red/parse?at=62db0bb6ef5ee44882d4009f), why the keep pick does not work with expressions.

cosacam1
09:44@hiiamboris your code for capturring only digits works, however it does not work when I use the numeric key pad, only with the numbers above the letters on my laptop keyboard. I guess it is because the numeric keypad keys have different scan codes. I haven't tested it with a regular desktop keyboard. Thanks anyway
hiiamboris
09:49Use NumLock ;)
09:49Else how are you planning to edit it.
cosacam1
17:46Numlock is activated. Tested again, it works with number keys above letters but not with keys in numpad.
greggirwin
18:02
probe-event: function [e] [
    foreach field system/catalog/accessors/event! [
    	if not find [face window] field [print rejoin [field ": " mold e/:field]]
    ]
    print '____
]
view [
	base red focus
		;on-key [probe-event event]
		on-key-up [probe-event event]
]
18:06With num-lock off I get special keys [end, down, page-down], but with it on I get lowercase chars [a b c], where the alpha keys return the uppercase variants, and the numbers above the keyboard return the numeric chars.
hiiamboris
18:19well, confirmed
18:19funny bug
greggirwin
18:23Worth reporting if not already there.
hiiamboris
18:24on it
greggirwin
18:32Thanks.
hiiamboris
18:43https://github.com/red/red/issues/5170 thanks @cosacam1 for finding this

cosacam1
01:28So it is a bug. Ok, I solved it with what hiiamboris and gregg gave mi. Here it is `
01:29accept-digits-only: func [event] [
all [
not all [
95 < event/picked
event/picked < 106
]
char? event/key
not find digit event/key
'stop
]
]
`
01:31Oops again bad formatting. I'm typing/pasting directly on my phone.
01:32Here is the explanation
01:39This function is for fields where user may only type digits.
The number keys in numeric keypad throw an event whose /key has a value different from what the key says.
For example, when typing 0 in numpad, its /key value is #"" not #"0". /picked has the key's scan code; for 0 to 9 keys /picked varies from 96 to 105. If the key pressed is a numpad key, the all [95 < ...] statement returns true but not makes it false so we exit the external all~ block because it's not needed to analize anything else and in order to not execute the 'stop below. In char? event/key: /key could be char! or word! (for example in keys like tab, enter, capslock) We'll only accept char! so find in the next expression won't throw an error In not find... we check that the pressed key is a digit, not a letter or symbol. If the key is a digit (from above the letters) find returns true but not makes it false so we exit the external all block. But, if the key is a letter or a symbol (+ ; ~) find returns none and not` makes it true so we go forward to the 'stop.

The 'stop statement makes the event not to propagate so the unwanted character is not added to field/text.
01:40Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks
01:48Sorry I should put different example instead of 0 whose /key value is the same char used here to format the texts. I should say When typing in numpad the 1 its /key value is #"a" not #"1"
05:34Hi again. AFAIK there is no way to make a function with optional parameters in Red. Something like volume: func [width: 1 height: 1 depth: 1] that could be called like unit-vol: volume or print volume 3 2 I guess one reason is there's no commas between args. Am I wrong?
toomasv
06:36
>> context [width: 1 height: 1 depth: 1 set 'volume func [/width w /height h /depth d][print [any [w self/width] any [h self/height] any [d self/depth]]]]
== make object! [
    width: 1
    height: 1
    depth: 1
]
>> volume
1 1 1
>> volume/width 3
3 1 1
>> volume/width/height 3 2
3 2 1
>> volume/width/height/depth 3 2 5
3 2 5
GalenIvanov
06:41Nice, @toomasv ! @codemosaic_twitter Here's my try:
06:41
unit-vol: func [args [block!]][
   dim: context [width: 1 height: 1 depth: 1]
   make dim args
]

probe unit-vol []
probe unit-vol [width: 2]
probe unit-vol [height: 3 depth: 2 width: 4]
06:41
make object! [
    width: 1
    height: 1
    depth: 1
]
make object! [
    width: 2
    height: 1
    depth: 1
]
make object! [
    width: 4
    height: 3
    depth: 2
]
>>
toomasv
06:42@GalenIvanov :+1:
Or
>> volume: func [/width w /height h /depth d][width: any [w 1] height: any [h 1] depth: any [d 1] print [width height depth]]
== func [/width w /height h /depth d][width: any [w 1] height: any [h 1] depth: any [d 1] print [width height depth]]
>> volume
1 1 1
>> volume/width 5
5 1 1
>> volume/width/height 5 3
5 3 1
>> volume/width/height/depth 5 3 2
5 3 2
GalenIvanov
06:58:+1:
hiiamboris
07:08
volume: function ['w [any-type!] 'h [any-type!] 'd [any-type!]] [
	foreach a [w h d] [unless number? get/any a [set a 1]]
	w * h * d
]
07:09
>> volume
== 1
>> volume 2
== 2
>> volume 2 3
== 6
>> volume 2 3 4
== 24
07:10good thing for shooting one's feet off ;)
(and getting better understanding of Red)
toomasv
08:23@hiiamboris Nice :)
Then you must not forget parens
>> a: volume 2 b: 3
== 6
>> b
*** Script Error: b has no value
>> a: (volume 2) b: 3
== 3
>> a
== 2
cosacam1
08:52Wow! So many answers. Thanks. Meanwhile I made my version 
volume: func [args [block!] /local w h d][unless attemp [w: args/1][w: 1] unless attemp [h: args/2][h: 1] unless attemp [d: args/3][d: 1] w * h * d]
08:56Use: 
print [volume [] volume [3] volume [3 2] volume [3 2 4] ]
09:00I first thought to use refinements but I searched for a shorter solution
09:07@GalenIvanov may you explain how make dim args works?
hiiamboris
09:10block is the idiomatic way, so congrats ;)
cosacam1
09:11@toomasv those any [w 1]... are really short!!!
09:22@hiiamboris didn't know of get/any. I've just checked it out in help. Oh, it was there since Rebol too! I need to study more. I wish my days last 72 hours
09:23You guys help me so much. Thanks a lot
09:26By the way, any comment or sugestion to accept-digits-only above?
hiiamboris
09:29If it works, it's good enough ;)
cosacam1
10:01I'm trying get/any in GUI but it gives me error. What I'm doing `>>'a
10:06Again. I type 'a just to create the word but without assigning any value. Then I try to print get/any a but it throws error a has no value. I thought it would not give any error
GalenIvanov
10:33@cosacam1 dim: context [width: 1 height: 1 depth: 1] creates an object! dim with three fields (context spec is short for make object! spec - you can try source context in the console). So this dim object contains the default values for the dimensions. With make dim args I create a new object using dim as a prototype and args as a specification, that is - the fields of the new object are set using the specification when present, and when not - the default values as in dim will remain.
You can see more here: [Object! datatype / Creation](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/datatypes/object.adoc#creation)
riprwwa
10:35get takes a word as its first argument. Let's say I have not defined a word a
get 'a
*** Script Error: a has no value
get/any 'a

So get will not find the word a either way, because I have not defined it. It's just that with the /any refinement there is no error, it returns UNSET.
My question is why does the following not work - I believe I'm using a get-word! instead of a lit-word! and get is supposed to take any-word!
get/any :a
hiiamboris
10:38@riprwwa use probe: get/any probe :a and get/any probe 'a to figure this out
riprwwa
10:50thank you, so it tries to see if a is defined and fails
get/any quote :a

would prevent it from doing that
cosacam1
11:12@GalenIvanov yes I had studied about objects but I thought make should always be followed by a datatype like in make block! Now I see it may be followed by a prototype. Thanks
GalenIvanov
11:15:+1:
cosacam1
11:22@riprwwa @hiiamboris thanks. I notice Hiiamboris volume function has w h d quoted so at foreach a [w h d] it happens that a gets qoted automatically.
hiiamboris
11:24@riprwwa yes, basically the argument gets evaluated and get receives the result
11:25@cosacam1 true, without quotation such variable arity is forbidden
cosacam1
12:18So when I said "there is no way to make a function with opcional parameters in Red... Am I wrong?" Yeap, I was wrong. It seems to me that everything is possible in Red.

GiuseppeChillemi
15:45Is there a way to encrypt the Red source to obfuscate it at compilation?
15:45I mean: my program source running in red.
hiiamboris
15:54If your program is compiled, there's no source code in it.
GiuseppeChillemi
15:58My code is interpreted, I can't compile it as some partes are dynamically built.
hiiamboris
16:26Is it so valuable that someone will bother reverse engineering it? ;)
16:28There's still no source code, but a Redbin payload. Which one of course could theoretically extract, by unpacking it and figuring out the exe format from compiler's source code.
16:28Or that's how I understand it anyway.
16:37Try https://www.google.com/search?q=exe+obfuscator
16:37But it won't be bulletproof since your program can unpack itself.
GiuseppeChillemi
16:58@hiiamboris Yes, it is starting to be valuable. It is a food tracking app which maintains an aggregated bill of material.
16:58I would like to give some test code around
16:58When ready
hiiamboris
18:13I have a content-type facet which can take only 3 values (as word!): planar, horizontal and vertical. What would be a more specific word than -type?
ne1uno
18:22-axis
gurzgri
18:25orientation [planar | horizontal | vertical]?
18:26Or content-flow maybe.
hiiamboris
18:40content-flow seems fit, thanks
18:41considered orientation but it's too long with content- ;)
ne1uno
18:42-fit
hiiamboris
18:43no, not for this case
18:44doesn't fit, sticks out (this parameters controls scrollbars logic)

bubnenkoff
09:30a: []
how to check if path a/b/c is exists?
hiiamboris
10:53you have a talent for finding weak points of Redbol design ;)
10:54for this concrete example, try get/any if it doesn't error out, then find on a/b block for c item
10:54I don't think there's a general solution though
10:55besides, there are cases like:
>> a: [b: %file]
== [b: %file]
>> a/b/c
== %file/c

>> a: compose [b: (func [/c]['result])]
== [b: func [/c]['result]]
>> a/b/c
== result
gltewalt:matrix.org
14:02Path not existing returns none
14:04As a refinement not existing, returns an error
14:06I think all cases, no path, no refinement, no file, should error
greggirwin
17:17Pretty sure @GiuseppeChillemi (or maybe it was someone else) has gone deep down this rabbit hole. This could be a good one for the rethink group here, as there's no single or perfect way to attack this problem. No universal solution.
hiiamboris
17:32https://github.com/red/REP/issues/121
greggirwin
17:32Thanks!
hiiamboris
17:44Brian has attacked this with design, trying to invent a general solution that would take a path and return a block of items to visit (that would also convert get-words and parens into a final item). And then any other part should magically work on top of that. Not sure he has finished it though, and don't recall where I saw that :/
GiuseppeChillemi
21:44@gltewalt:matrix.org I have long debated with myself about the current Red design, still with no definitive answer. Having been on Rebol, I have seen that Carl has creted 2 different sets of functions:
paths and ordinals (first, second..) generate an error when you use a non-existing path or you pick out of range in the series; while pick and select returns a none. On Red, you need additional tail? and length? to understand if your ordinal picker is out of range. Instead, using paths you could use the method suggested by Doc in the ticket: error? try [my/path]
This method actually has a problem:
A path on object! always returns an error, independently from the non-existing path segment
A path on block! returns an error only if the first word does not exist, or an intermediate one. So, you **CAN'T USE** error? try [my/path] to check for paths when it is just the last word which does not exists, because it returns none and does not trigger any error.
In other words:
x: [a [b c d]]
probe error? try [x/dd/z]
= true
x: [a [b c d]]
probe error? try [x/a/z]
= false


Actually, when you have a block with multiple nested blocks, it seems there is no way to know if the last element is a non-existing one. (But you can make your own path check function). Anyone is free to anyone to intervene if a method exists.
21:52We have too many path management combinations to deal with to access data. Carl has made paths to generate an error, and it works consistently across any data. With this observation, I think exists? takes point as a good solution to implement if we want to keep paths returning none, otherwise, let it fire an error!
hiiamboris
21:55> Carl has made paths to generate an error, and it works consistently across any data

>> b: []
== []
>> b/1
== none
dockimbel
22:04> A path on block! returns an error only if the first word does not exist, or an intermediate one.

That sentence is a nonsense. If the "first word" is not set, it cannot be "a path on block!".
22:06> Actually, when you have a block with multiple nested blocks, it seems there is no way to know if the last element is a non-existing one.

x: [a [b c d]]
find x/a 'z
== none
find x/a 'b
== [b c d]
GiuseppeChillemi
22:06On Rebol, picking using a number has the same working of pick': it returns none` if you are in a wrong position. He has made a parallel between path with a number and pick using number.
22:07@dockimbel I did my best with my english and technical knowledge.
22:15Thank you for the solution, I was not seeing it. But they are really too many combinations to manage for catching problems on path access, and all require different code. So, if you have a function that works with multiple datatypes, the error checking code will be long.

GiuseppeChillemi
11:35I want to write a Red block which goes to the next line on write but I was not able to make it:

a: "hello"
		b: "world"

		;reduce		
		write %myfile.txt reduce [[o: 33] a b lf cr]
		=[[o: 33] "hello" "world" #"^/" #"^M"]

		;rejoin		
		write %myfile.txt rejoin [[o: 33] a b lf cr]
		=[o: 33 "hello" "world" #"^/" #"^M"]

		;rejoin + to-string
		write %myfile.txt rejoin [to-string [o: 33] a b lf cr]
		=o33helloworld


My need is to save a Red block and then later edit with proper formatting on multiple lines and not all in one line
hiiamboris
11:49write molds it's value (mold it yourself, then add a newline)
11:51or write/lines reduce [reduce [stuff]]
11:51randomly applying every function you can recall doesn't usually work ;)
GiuseppeChillemi
12:20I am trying every combination to understand what molds and how everything works. The output of the console also confuses me as if you mold and probe, it seems you mold twice.
dockimbel
12:21
>> body-of :probe
== [
    print mold :value 
    :value
]
GiuseppeChillemi
12:22Thanks
12:38@dockimbel I want to signal something happened doing some tests after your suggestion:

>> body-of :write
== 62
>> type? :write
== action!


I am currently investigating on it. I get this result only after a running long script which ends with an error on write/string (which is a Rebol refinement run there by mistake) , while it does not happen on a pristine console.
12:38What could be?
dockimbel
12:41> while it does not happen on a pristine console.

C:\Dev\Red>console
--== Red 0.6.4 ==--
Type HELP for starting information.

>> body-of :write
== 62
>> type? :write
== action!

GiuseppeChillemi
12:52I was currently on a subdir with an older Red version, my mistake.

>> about
Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 9-Aug-2020/23:49:48+02:00 commit #ab1a8eb

12:54However, I have solved the problem, but I admit it was difficult because of the high number of combinations and unknown (to me) workings:

write %myfile.txt rejoin [mold reduce [[o: 33] a b] lf mold reduce [[o: 44] a b] lf]

[[o: 33] "hello" "world"]
[[o: 44] "hello" "world"]
gurzgri
15:05As Boris already suggested:
write/lines %test.txt reduce [reduce [[o: 33] a b] reduce [[o: 44] a b]]
[[o: 33] "hello" "world"]
[[o: 44] "hello" "world"]


will start each block on a new line. This seems to be so much easier then the rejoin mold reduce value lf.
15:12
Red
write %test.txt mold/only new-line/all reduce [reduce [[o: 33] a b] reduce [[o: 44] a b]] on
GiuseppeChillemi
16:55@gurzgri I havn't understood the mechanism used by write/lines to add a new line.. This is the reason why I have skipped his solution
hiiamboris
16:58Try reading the docstring of write.
GiuseppeChillemi
17:01Yes, I knew that /lines would add a newline at each string in a block. Didn't know it worked for blocks inside blocks too.
17:04Always something new to learn.
luce80
17:08Is there a way to know if my script was started by another script or directly ?
ne1uno
17:13if find system/options/script "myscript.red" [print "hi"]
17:14not bulletproof maybe and hardwires name
luce80
17:50@ne1uno thanks. Using the same "trick"
if "my title" = select select load system/options/script 'Red 'title [print "hi"]
a bit convoluted and slow but less hardwired
ne1uno
17:58for anyone else wondering why do you want this? I use it to run inline tests on a library script that won't run when included from another. something like python if __name__ == '__main__':
luce80
18:05Exactly the same case for me. I wish system/script will be "filled in" and also load/header and also a complete script-module system will be available sooner or later.
greggirwin
18:07I've just made a note for this use case.

cosacam1
20:03Hi. Load-csv/with load %somefile.csv gives me invalid UTF-8 encoding.... However, I rename file to somefile.txt then load-csv "works"
hiiamboris
20:05you mean read %somefile.csv?
cosacam1
20:11Both read and load give same error
hiiamboris
20:11check permissions maybe
20:12file system bug possible too
cosacam1
20:21I guess the reason is there are extended ascii chars (beyond 127) . I just edited the file with notepad, changed AÑO by ANO then run again and if gives same error but with another hex code possibly because another wrong char. I need to translate them all. Thanks anyway.
20:22... is there any library for read/load xlsx files?
20:47Confirmed. Translated all to utf-8 with Notepad++ and works using read.
hiiamboris
21:27> ... is there any library for read/load xlsx files?

IIRC there was some VB integration demo of old
GiuseppeChillemi
22:11@cosacam1 Rebolek has created a codepage translator. You find it [here](https://gitlab.com/rebolek/castr/-/tree/master/).
22:15Download the repository , include codepage.red and use read-cp in and as follow:

myfile: read/binary %filename.red
myfile: read-cp  myfile 'codepage-here
myfile: load-csv myfile
cosacam1
23:01Ok thanks both. I will use it asap. I am in the middle of a black out right now

GiuseppeChillemi
13:19I need advice from you. I have this web page with product cost: https://agerborsamerci.it/listino/web.htm

Which is the best approach to get each column element and store it as a table?
13:24I am confused because I have understood the developers have created some tools to parse Web Pages/XML (whose structure and working I know partially) and I really don't know where to start and what instrument to use.
gurzgri
15:19> the developers have created some tools

Which developers? The ones of [agerborsamerci.it](agerborsamerci.it)? Then your best bet would be go ask them for some XML with a schema you can rely on instead of scraping web pages.

A very quick and dirty solution tailored only to that very page might be (it's only a start ...):
context [
	do %castr/codepage.red

	digit: charset "1234567890"

	break-lines: func [block] [new-line/all block on]
	table-rule: ["<table" thru ">" copy table any [table-rule | not "</table>" skip] "</table>" keep (table)]

	tables-of: func [page]  [parse page  [collect any [to "<table" table-rule]]]
	rows-of:   func [table] [parse table [collect any [thru "<tr" thru ">" keep to "</tr>"]]]
	cells-of:  func [row]   [parse row   [collect any [thru "<td" thru ">" keep to "</td>"]]]

	tidy: function [cell] [
		parse cell [
			any [
				change [" " | "^/"] " " | change "<" "<" | change ">" ">"
			|   remove ["<" opt "/" [["font" | "a"] ahead [" " | ">"]] thru ">"]
			| 	skip
			]
		]
		parse cell [any [change some " " " " | skip]]
		trim cell
		if equal? cell "0,00" [clear cell]
		any [
			all [
				parse cell [opt "-" digit any [opt "." some digit] opt ["," 2 digit]]
				not equal? $0 value: to money! load trim/with cell "."
				value
			]
			unless empty? cell [cell]
		]
	]

	set 'scrape-prices function [page] [
		break-lines collect [foreach table tables-of page [
			keep/only break-lines collect [foreach row rows-of table [
				row: collect [foreach cell cells-of row [keep tidy cell]]
				parse reverse row [any [remove none!]]
				keep/only reverse row
			]]
		]]
	]
]

probe scrape-prices read-cp read/binary https://agerborsamerci.it/listino/web.htm 'Windows-1252


...
    ["FRUMENTO TENERO di produzione nazionale 2022"]
    [{n° 1 - speciali di forza - prot. 14% min, p.s. 79/80 kg/hl, c.e. 1%} $408.00 $413.00 $408.00 $413.00]
    [{n° 2 - speciali - prot. 12% min, p.s. 78/79 kg/hl, c.e. 1%} $361.00 $366.00 $364.00 $369.00 $3.00 $3.00]
    [{n° 3 - fino - prot. 11% min, p.s. 78 kg/hl min, c.e. 1%} $354.00 $359.00 $357.00 $362.00 $3.00 $3.00]
    ["n° 4 - buono mercantile - p.s. 76 kg/hl, c.e. 2%" $347.00 $352.00 $350.00 $355.00 $3.00 $3.00]
....
GiuseppeChillemi
15:31@gurzgri Some tools have been created by @Rebolek as a function to pick a an XML table form a web page but I suppose here it does not apply. Also, I have imagined that there could exists a function to transform a web page in a block hierarchy with its component and then you can pick one or another section. But as I have totally no experience on this, I am here to ask
gurzgri
15:47You can't just "pick an XML table from a web page" if there is none. That very page is just plain HTML. Of course there are HTML to XML converters. But these would hand you out ... XML. Which you then would have to make sense of. Converting to XML doesn't magically provide semantic structure where it's missing in the source. And that very page doesn't even use CSS classes but just inlines pretty much all styles. So you don't even have class names to make some educated guesses what some particluar piece of information is all about.
GiuseppeChillemi
16:45Which tools do we have in Red to split an HTML page in its parts and store it to a block? Are there any, apart the parse approach?
16:46@gurzgri I forgot to say "Thank you" for the script. Here it is!

dsunanda
07:26@GiuseppeChillemi When I had to parse a HTML page in Red, I shelled out to Rebol and used LOAD/MARKUP. Not ideal but it got the job done.
hiiamboris
07:30@rebolek must have some tools
Oldes
08:38When I need to parse a html.. I use just parse. I never try to load it.
loziniak
12:51Hi, I don't understand why I have to use /deep when I want to replace part of a block using alternative in *parse* pattern:

>> a: [abc def ghi]
== [abc def ghi]
>> replace a ['def | 'xyz] [xxx]  ;shouldn't this just work?
== [abc def ghi]
>> replace/deep a ['def | 'xyz] [xxx]
== [abc xxx ghi]

>> a: [abc def ghi]
== [abc def ghi]
>> replace a ['def] [xxx]  ;this works ok!
== [abc xxx ghi]
gurzgri
13:27Looks like a bug to me or like a misleading help string to me at best. According to the help string /deep should only be needed to replace nested occurences of abc or ghi too as in

replace/deep [abc [abc [def] ghi] def ghi] ['def | 'ghi] [xxx]


but not for replacing only on top level as in

replace [abc [abc [def] ghi] def ghi] ['def | 'ghi] [xxx]


But from a first glance, the way replace is implemented, only with /deep it switches to parse here to do the replacing. Without /deep it loops until of all occurences that find finds have been replaced.

But find doesn't find any:

>> find [abc [abc [def] ghi] def ghi] ['def] ;== [def ghi]
>> find [abc [abc [def] ghi] def ghi] ['def | 'ghi] ;== none


Probably open a ticket.
hiiamboris
15:51Replace is a known abomination, stitched together by different people for different tasks without a central design.
15:53I have an experimental redesign: [replace (read the header)](https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-common/src/branch/master/new-replace.red), [mapparse](https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-common/src/branch/master/mapparse.red), but unreviewed.

luce80
17:07with numbers I have:
>> n: 1.2
== 1.2
>> n * 2
== 2.4
>> n
== 1.2

but with vector!s I have:
>> v1: make vector! [1 2 3]
== make vector! [1 2 3]
>> v1 * 2
== make vector! [2 4 6]
>> v1
== make vector! [2 4 6]

Is this intended behaviour?
hiiamboris
17:12https://github.com/red/red/issues/2216
luce80
17:18luckily ther is a workaround:
>> v1: make vector! [1 2 3]
== make vector! [1 2 3]
>> v2: v1 * 2
== make vector! [2 4 6]
>> v2
== make vector! [2 4 6]
>> v1
== make vector! [2 4 6]
>> v1: make vector! [1 2 3]
== make vector! [1 2 3]
>> v2: (copy v1) * 2
== make vector! [2 4 6]
>> v1
== make vector! [1 2 3]
>> v2
== make vector! [2 4 6]

but surely it is not what one would expect to do, but maybe could be seen as a feature ;) ?
17:25Sorry, it is also already documented as a feature.
hiiamboris
17:31well IMO it's a mess
dockimbel
19:38> well IMO it's a mess

That's what's called a "constructive" comment.
19:41@luce80 In Rebol/Red, vector! is an array! of scalar values, so it's a series by nature. In Red, we allowed the math operations on it, until we get a better alternative (like fixed-sized vectors and matrix types). As it's a series, it's costly to be used for temporary values, so we decided to use in-place modifying semantics for math ops. If we hadn't done that, people would be using them in math-intensive tasks and then complaining that their memory usage is exploding or that the GC is not doing its job (sic)...But if that is causing troubles, we can remove the math ops support, so you can enjoy writting them yourself at mezz level. ;-)
hiiamboris
19:44> That's what's called a "constructive" comment.

:D ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
19:46Is it proven that in-place modification is significantly faster? If so, where the slowdown occurs?
19:47OK so it's GC issue again
dockimbel
19:50The GC has no issue with vectors.
hiiamboris
19:50Then what's slow? :)
19:52Constructively, I already wrote enough about the topic. I'll just add that no performance matter can justify such counter-intuitive math in a high level language. Make C-like operators at least. *= += etc. At least people will *see* what happens. But as I wrote already, it's a kludge and it doesn't scale (will there be e.g. sin=?).
dockimbel
19:56> Then what's slow? :)

You are reading me wrongly. I've never mentioned speed, but memory pressure.
hiiamboris
19:57But memory pressure is only a thing for us because GC is lazy :) Otherwise, why would anyone care?
dockimbel
19:59> such counter-intuitive math

Maths does not define how arithmetic works between series and scalars, we do. It's part of the language semantics, not math rules.
hiiamboris
20:01Such rules require a special case *in every* function that works on general arguments.
20:02Besides, math doesn't have *variables*, so what should it define? ;)
dockimbel
20:02You are again over-generalizing your own use-cases...
hiiamboris
20:03Math defines e.g. commutativity and transitivity. And probably a couple more rules that are totally broken by this.
20:03@meijeru will support me ;)
dockimbel
20:04Anyway, as I said above: "we allowed the math operations on it, until we get a better alternative (like fixed-sized vectors and matrix types)." So this means that it's a temporary feature. I think we should rename that datatype, as we hesitated between array! and vector! in the beginning.
20:05Commutativity and transitivity do not apply on operands of different type/nature.
20:05apple + orange = ?
hiiamboris
20:06Type promotion?
20:06v + 1 <=> v + vector-of-ones
20:06Anyway, if it's temporary I'll stop criticizing it :)
dockimbel
20:07Implicit type promotion from scalar to series? That's an horror!
hiiamboris
20:07Well, for modelling behavior, not for implementing it ;)
20:09I think, eventually, once GC is improved, it will just reuse recently created vector buffers, and this case will just resolve itself.
dockimbel
20:09A series is not a number! So there's no possible "promotion", as they differ in nature!

apple + orange = ?
Let's promote the "orange" to "apple" to solve that, right?
hiiamboris
20:09Not a correct analogy ;)
dockimbel
20:10I think we should remove those math ops and rename the type to array!, so that people will stop misusing it.
20:10> Not a correct analogy ;)

Prove that it's not correct, otherwise "it's just your opinion".
hiiamboris
20:12Ahh. Lazy. Let it be "my opinion" :)
dockimbel
20:13:+1:
20:17In some "high level languages" (like in C# IIRC), the math operators can be overloaded, but you can provide 2 implementations, depending on the operands order, as commutativity is not a given when the operands are of different natures, it needs to be defined case by case.
hiiamboris
20:18Well, let's not follow their suit...
20:18@dockimbel noticed [this comment](https://github.com/red/red/commit/19ebddde32e20ade110f54e55b3c599062fd02d6#commitcomment-81213457) btw?
dockimbel
20:18Surely, the C# designers, like me, do not know about maths. ;-)
hiiamboris
20:20Since it's a megacorp, I doubt there's any real design thought there. Just typical bureaucratic madness.
meijeru
21:02On the vector arithmetic question, since I have been appealed to by @hiiamboris, let me confirm that I do not like in-place modification as I have said in a few issues.
dockimbel
21:08> The term vector is also used, in some contexts, for tuples, which are finite sequences of numbers of a fixed length. ([source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_(mathematics_and_physics))

So our vector! datatype is misnamed as it does not fit that definition. We'll need to rename it and remove those built-in scalar operations.
melcepstrum
21:08> Make C-like operators at least. *= += etc.
That's a good idea IMO
hiiamboris
21:16What's the difference between a vector and a tuple?
dockimbel
21:18Which "vector"? A math vector or our vector! type?
hiiamboris
21:19Math vector.
21:19Perhaps, that you can't add dimensions to it, but to tuple you can.
dockimbel
21:21They seems equivalent. Both are fixed-size.
21:24> Since it's a megacorp, I doubt there's any real design thought there. Just typical bureaucratic madness.

"[Anders Hejlsberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg) is a Danish software engineer who co-designed several programming languages and development tools. He was the original author of Turbo Pascal and the chief architect of Delphi. He currently works for Microsoft as the lead architect of C# and core developer on TypeScript."

"Since 2000, he has been the lead architect of the team developing the C# language. In 2012 Hejlsberg announced a new Microsoft project, TypeScript, a superset of JavaScript."

He surely doesn't seem like someone who knows what he's doing, right?. ;-)
melcepstrum
21:38if you're going to remove those built-in scalar operations then also remove vector by vector multiplication etc.
hiiamboris
21:44> He surely doesn't seem like someone who knows what he's doing, right?. ;-)

Judging by the designs, no ;)
21:45Everyone can write a fancy biography. But a deeply designed language - only a few.

cosacam1
08:07Hi everybody. Take a look at this code 
date4calendar: none
lyoCalendar: layout [
    cld: calendar with [date: date4calendar] return
    button "Aceptar" [date4calendar: cld/date] button "Cerrar" [date4calendar: none]
]
view [button "get date" [view lyoCalendar print date4calendar]]
08:11When I run it and select a date and press Aceptar (Ok) it gives me this Script Error: cannot access date in path cld/date. My question: how to make calendar show a given date and how to get the date from it, the one the user selected?
pekr
08:13Ah, those scandinavians :-) Our company was bought by the scandinavian group. First, there was a huge initiative to use Java Kotlin, stuff like Kafka microservices, but noone apart from the core team could undestand those things. So they've left. Nowadays, Python is promoted by the different branch of the IT group. I hope, in few years, it might be finally Red, or some kind of Red to Python ecosystem / browser integration :-) Btw - Delphi is still alive and popular amongst some devs, it has its open source Lazarus alternative ...
cosacam1
08:23Has anyone used calendar?
luce80
08:53@cosacam1 
view [
button "Aceptar" [print cal/data]
cal: calendar data 01-01-2000
]
cosacam1
08:57Of course: data, not date. Thanks luce80
luce80
09:15pick accepts also a block! for its index parameter. How is it used?
rebolek
09:21I guess it's not used and it's just reserved for usage in schemes where it may make sense, same as time!
hiiamboris
09:42https://github.com/red/red/issues/3665
gltewalt:matrix.org
18:35Isn't this the wrong room for design debate?

greggirwin
21:18Design debate should move to red/red.

GiuseppeChillemi
14:57This works in Rebol but not in Red, I get a no catch for throw error!

f: func [
	[catch]
	"Try me"
	arg "Any Arg"
] [
	throw make error! "Oh noooo"
]

f 999


I am doing something wrong?
greggirwin
16:08Red doesn't support function attributes yet.
bubnenkoff
17:05
>> #("text": 123)
*** Syntax Error: (line 1) invalid word at : 123)

it's impossible to use string as key in map?

rebolek
17:05#("text" 123). There's no set-string!.
greggirwin
17:06
>> #("text" 123)
== #(
    "text" 123
)
17:06Too slow. Grrrr. ;^)
rebolek
17:06:mouse:
bubnenkoff
17:06oh! thanks!
17:09But for example how to access for key if am putting string in next way:
>> a: #({"foo" "bar"} 123)
== #(
    {"foo" "bar"} 123
)
>> a/{"foo" "bar"}
*** Syntax Error: (line 1) invalid path at a/{"foo" "bar"}
ne1uno
17:13a/("foo"): "bar"
bubnenkoff
17:14eht... I thought {"foo" "bar"} will be key of map with value 123
17:15So my question is about how to create map with key with string! type, or it's inpossible?
ne1uno
17:16@bubnenkoff, enclose key in paren or use get instead of path
17:17a/({"foo" "bar"})
bubnenkoff
17:17thanks!

bubnenkoff
15:33
data: [{"aa" "bb"} {"cc" "dd"} {"ee" "ff"}]


how to write this to files with line breaks?
[
{"aa" "bb"} 
{"cc" "dd"} 
{"ee" "ff"}
]


I tried:
formatted-values: []
    foreach el data [
        append formatted-values el
        append formatted-values lf
    ]
    write %out.red form reduce formatted-values


But it remove string liters and block brackets
hiiamboris
15:45? new-line ? save
bubnenkoff
16:06Do not understand idea how it should work together...
16:11save %out.red new-line/all data on
output:
{"aa" "bb"} 
    {"cc" "dd"} 
    {"ee" "ff"}

I am close to result!
hiiamboris
16:11:+1:
16:12now study save refinements closer
16:13oh sorry, it doesn't have that :D
16:13ok then, mold has what you need, and save %file roughly equals write %file mold
bubnenkoff
16:15
write %out.red mold (new-line/all data on)

works! Thanks!
16:36The main idea is to write map! in human readable format. As it's displaying in code. Now I know to to write is block values, but now I need to add it's key:
data: #(
 "foo" [
        {"lots" "lot" "maxPrice"} 
        {"lots" "lot" "objects" "maxPrice"} 
        {"lots" "lot" "objects" "item" "maxLotPrice"} 
    ]
)

write %out.red mold  (new-line/all data/("foo") on)
16:38
write %out.red insert mold (new-line/all data/("foo") on) "foo"

do not work -- i tried to append key name before
hiiamboris
16:57write data, not the result of new-line
16:57new-line is destructive (modifies in place)

ldci
09:47Rebol has a very complete image! datatype since images are considered as series.
To copy an image (img2) into another image (img1) at a given location (xy):
xy: 10x10
change at img1 xy img2
Is there an easy way to do the same with Red?
hiiamboris
10:10draw img1 compose [image img2 (xy)]
10:11and you've found a regression, congrats
ldci
10:22@hiiamboris Thanks a lot :)
dockimbel
12:47> change at img1 xy img2

We should support that in Red too. @qtxie
ldci
17:41@dockimbel That would be great. Have a look here: http://www.rebol.com/docs/image.html#section-1
hiiamboris
18:22I have a doubt that OS image functions can support all that.
GiuseppeChillemi
18:44It had also nice special effects for images.
18:44But I don't know if we can have them in Red
greggirwin
18:53In the past we talked about the value of an effects pipeline, and it's a great feature IMO. Especially with what @ldci does and exposing the convolving kernel.

ldci
09:01Hi, while waiting for change function on images, a small function that makes job:
change-at: function [
	img1	[image!]	;--first image
	img2 	[image!]	;--second image
	pos		[pair!]		;--starting position
][
	if any [pos/x = 0 pos/y = 0] [pos: 1x1]		;--Red is 1-based
	start: pos/y - 1 * img1/size/x + pos/x
	line: 1
	while [line <= img2/size/y][
		col: 1
		while [col <= img2/size/x][
			img1/:start: img2/:col
			col: col + 1
			start: start + 1 
		]
		start: start + img2/size/x  
		line: line + 1
	]
]

comment [
	a: make image! reduce [100x100 red]
	b: make image! reduce [50x50 green]
	change-at a b 25x25
	view [image a]
]

hiiamboris
09:25why bother if you have image command in Draw
ldci
09:32@hiiamboris , mainly because draw can’t be used in routines:)
hiiamboris
10:31I see ;)

bubnenkoff
12:51I forgot why next code is add only one field to UI:
add-field: function [] [
    append p/parent/pane layout/only [field]
]

view [
 p: panel [
 ]
 button "add" [add-field ]
]

I thought it should add as many fields as was clicked on add button
dockimbel
13:12@bubnenkoff They are all placed at the same offset, so they are pilling up one on another. Here is a working example:
pos: 5x5

add-field: function [/extern pos] [
    append p/parent/pane make-face/offset 'field pos: pos + 0x30
]

view [
	p: panel []
	button "add" [add-field ]
]
13:16Use make-face when you need to create individual faces from existing styles, layout is invoking the full VID processor which is overkill in such case.
bubnenkoff
13:17thanks! Heh I did not know that make-face is exists
dockimbel
13:21It was missing from [View docs](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/view.adoc#extra-functions), so I just added it.
bubnenkoff
13:39egh... and what if I want to add two fields at one click? for example I want to display it
[] [] <- first click
[] [] <- second click

I tried to place field in block but git an error: make-face/offset does not allow block! for its style argument
hiiamboris
15:51you'll figure it out, just don't let your hands do anything before your head ;)
GiuseppeChillemi
16:20If I have some panels with elements inside, like button/areas, how could I add/remove elements from the panel?
hiiamboris
16:32append or remove them from panel's pane
GiuseppeChillemi
17:37Is there a way to let findlook at block! of block! content in one run to avoid a second run?

I mean:
my-data: [[a b] [a bbb] [b ccc] [a z]]
find/????? my-data 'a

So that it finds sub-blocks 1 2 and 4
henrikmk
17:49A FIND/DEEP would be nice, but perhaps is complicated to do.
GiuseppeChillemi
17:56Yes, it would be good to find/deep or nest another lower lever find. Maybe one day we could provide even an R/S routine to be used by find to make a custom search at each element/row of the series.
dockimbel
18:02Sure, why use Parse dialect when we can add yet another refinement to the most overloaded native...
henrikmk
18:08We will not rest until FIND can brew coffee too.
bubnenkoff
18:31I am trying to solve next problem.
I have data structure that I want to display and make it possible to be editable.
data: [
    foo: none 
    bar: none
    lots: [
        lot: [
            number: none
        ]
        customers: [
            customer: [
                name: none
            ]
        ]
    ]
]


So I want to make UI from data and allow to save\load it from file. The number and names of blocks should be possible to change in dynamic.
So for exmaple I should be able to add node objects inside node lot.
I am thinking about proper ways to do it. And what types of controllers should I use.

Now I am thinking that I could try to build UI base on field. I don't have a good idea how to organize the mapping logic with the hierarchy.
If I would generate UI kike Nenad show how can I add any node to any level?
greggirwin
18:38You can use face/extra to hold a reference to the field in the data structure.
bubnenkoff
18:46Could you give an example. I can't find nothing in search by: face/extra
greggirwin
18:50It's just a facet faces have. You can store anything there. So as you generate faces while walking your structure, you can use the current node's key and thus be able to update the data there.
GiuseppeChillemi
19:09@dockimbel you are the master, I just make a wish. But before writing anything more, I will try to optimize my find-in function, even in parse, to see if at least 5x slower speed of 1 level block speed searching could be reached. See you!

Respectech
00:46It sounds like someone needs to write a 'find dialect.
GiuseppeChillemi
00:52I have made some speed test, the topic continues here on red/red
:point_up: [23 agosto 2022 02:14](https://gitter.im/red/red?at=63041bd772ad51741f7d910f)
zentrog:matrix.org
02:26I think the first step should be to define the interface and semantics of the feature, and not worry about performance until the very end
greggirwin
03:28Agreed @dander.
GiuseppeChillemi
06:51@zentrog:matrix.org I have made the speed tests to see if there could be advantages into going native with the /deep refinement.
Here is the answer:
Nested-find: 0:00:00.116017 
Nested+chk: 0:00:00.224215 
;with -if all [block? column find column value]...-- check 
     Find/Skip: 0:00:00.0029983 99999

If I have calculated it correctly, a native find/skip over a test made with 2 nested find and a datatype checks is about 30x faster. In these tests, the first find searches for a record located at the penultimate position over 100K; then it searches inside a block with just *one* element, so I can say that a simple datatype check and a second native find on a small block, would not not add so much on that 0:00:00.0029983. That 20/30x speed gain, gives motivation for a find/deep

cosacam1
13:24Hi. I made a data structrure similar to Dmitri's example, a block of blocks,i.e
13:30a tree. I want to save it to a json file using Santilli's to-json. It gaves me no error msg but it does not creates any file
rebolek
13:31what does save/as %output.json your-data 'json do?
cosacam1
13:37I use probe before saving to check my data and it is ok. Any idea why is it not saved?
rebolek
13:46It's hard to tell without seeing the code you are using.
hiiamboris
14:01maybe you're just looking for the saved file in the wrong place?
cosacam1
15:02@hiiamboris Actually I'm using an absolute path %/E/folder/subfolder/test.json
15:11@rebolek Code is not relevant. Data is ok, just a tree in a nested block fashion like Dmitri example above (sorry I cant give you my own but I cant use my laptop right now, I'm using my phone) For same reason I havent tested your suggestion save/as ... json
rebolek
15:27@cosacam1 OK, so try my suggestion when you're at your computer and let me know.
cosacam1
16:16@rebolek Yes, it works! And load/as ... 'json too. Why do I often take the longest path? Nevermind. Thank you.
rebolek
greggirwin
18:21> Code is not relevant.

As a note to everyone, as many lurk here, actual code is almost always relevant, since it shows the problem. Without it, others can only guess and make simple suggestions.
zentrog:matrix.org
22:01@GiuseppeChillemi: I would argue that speed gain is not relevant until you actually need it. The important thing about defining new functions/features is how useful they are and whether they make your code cleaner and more maintainable. If modifying the language, then you must be certain to make it unnecessarily more complex. If you later discover that this particular operation is very expensive _in an important way_ in your code, then going down to red/system would almost certainly help. At that point, the design is fixed though, and improving performance is an implementation detail. It doesn't have to be piggy-backing on an existing function to do that.
GiuseppeChillemi
22:27As Nenad has said, we can add it to Find, even if it is the most overloaded native, and he would accept any proposal I will make!
22:28I am joking, let's see where this road ends.
22:43Thinking out aloud: what seems clear is that very strict nested loops gain a lot from having native R/S code. So, even if find/deep or find/into would not be implemented, we should create and use specialized R/S functions in such scenarios.
greggirwin
22:49R/S wins big when it can access the underlying data in raw form, e.g. bytes or chars. Once you start dealing with things at the Red runtime level, e.g. rich types, the gains are much less.

cosacam1
03:03Sorry Gregg, I was referring only to that specific case. Besides, I couldn't send my code because I was in a blackout... you don't wanna know how often they are! ... And I could not send this... because of another one 6 hours long!!!
pekr
03:09@GiuseppeChillemi I do remember some very old discussion about findworking upon a nested structure, apart from /deep, the alternative name was /flatIIRC. But it never materialised ....
cosacam1
03:59On July 1 Gregg answered to me: The tiger demo is 100% real, and still runs on my Android phone, and you may be able to build things, but that branch is terribly out of date, so no guarantees. Now I try to compile it with no avail. I wrote this little program too `
Red [
Title: "Trying to make an apk"
Author: "cosacam"
File: %test-apk.red
; Config: [type: 'dll libRed?: no libRedRT?: yes export-ABI: 'cdecl]
Tabs: 4
Needs: 'View
]
#include %/E/cosacam_data/bz/distrib_bz/programacion/red/red-master/bridges/java/JNI.reds
view [
text "Name" n: field 100
button "Backwards" [r/text: reverse n/text]
r: text "---"
]
04:07I couldn't compile it either by red.exe -t Android E:\cosacam_data\bz\distrib_bz\programacion\red\red-master\bridges\java\bridge.red. So, no Android compiling yet?
bubnenkoff
11:58@cosacam1 could you share your code please. I am still frustrating about idea how to write such tree
cosacam1
13:43Asap. Blackout
greggirwin
16:55Given that Android is now set to come after 1.0, don't expect any fixes to it before that.
GiuseppeChillemi
20:13@greggirwin It would be good to create a group of volunteers to put the Android version on par with the current release. The work is in an advanced state and we could have one more instrument to the community. But... we have no human resources capable of this work! Or at least, I see just a couple of people and nothing more.
greggirwin
20:20Someone from the community was going to, but we never built momentum. @dockimbel has a high bar for contributions and this work requires deep skills, which I doubt will be met by self-organized volunteers. Combined with the current codebase being frozen in the near future, given the new roadmap, changes may make any effort there wasted.
GaryMiller
20:36Is there a link to the new roadmap?
GiuseppeChillemi
20:37@GaryMiller The second message in the Red main site.
20:44@greggirwin You can have an unofficial, not-so-perfect solution and then the coders could move their codebases to the new Red Team which follows Doc standards. The advantage of this path is the creation of a codebase and applications that will be the ground for the official android one.
greggirwin
20:46I don't think it's feasible, or a good use of people's time right now, but people can work on anything they want. @dockimbel would have to say if he supports any specific initiative.
qtxie
22:50@GiuseppeChillemi Don't expect there are any volunteers to do it at the current scale of Red community. Even no volunteers to fix some simple issues which way easier than Android support.

As Gregg said, people can work on anything they want. It's opensource, feel free to modify it to fit your needs. ;)
GiuseppeChillemi
23:25Thank you for the answer, I already knew it but I have asked, just in
a case... Expressing your dreams is free, realizing them is much more difficult! ;)
qtxie
23:32> Combined with the current codebase being frozen in the near future, given the new roadmap, changes may make any effort there wasted.

According to the blog article [The Road To 1.0](https://www.red-lang.org/2022/07/the-road-to-10.html), IIUC, the current codebase won't be frozen. Only the Rebol 2 code (compiler, linker and encapper) will be discarded. It will be replaced by a Red one. The R/S runtime codebase will continue to be updated. So changes in the runtime won't be wasted.

greggirwin
00:16"Frozen" is perhaps too strong a term, yes. But any work done in 32-bit now, e.g. in the Android back end, will have to be updated for 64-bit when the time comes. And once the deep core team is focused on the new work, there will likely be very few updates. @dockimbel can clarify, but building momentum on the new work is paramount, and avoiding distractions is key.
00:18That's how I read his final line in the blog post anyway.
qtxie
01:48> But any work done in 32-bit now, e.g. in the Android back end, will have to be updated for 64-bit when the time comes.

For Red code, no wrong. For R/S code, if you don't use pointer as 32-bit integer, then it should just works fine on 64-bit.
greggirwin
03:03But Android work will be R/S, correct, so may be affected.
bubnenkoff
07:55it's very interesting why on short strings is adding double quotes but longer strings is wrapping by {}
>> x: []
== []
>> 
>> append x "aaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa"
== ["aaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa"]
>> 
>> append x "aaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
== ["aaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa" {aaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa aaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa}]
;   ^--- see                             ^--- and here
rebolek
07:56they're equivalent, there's just a limit in mold when to switch from " to {}, otherwise there's no difference
bubnenkoff
08:31But what is the logic? Why such design?
rebolek
08:33Have you read the documentation? For example http://www.rebol.com/docs/core23/rebolcore-3.html#section-2.6
hiiamboris
08:43I guess logic is to choose between "" and {} without scanning the string for new-line markers (for speed). Limit just works in the majority of cases (single line strings are usually short, multi-line ones are usually long).
dockimbel
09:06> Only the Rebol 2 code (compiler, linker and encapper) will be discarded. It will be replaced by a Red one.

As we'll be rebuilding the new toolchain in Red, we'll need to make fixes and improvements to the current runtime, to sustain that work. That's also the reason why we need to pass some long-time planned changes/improvements to the Red runtime library before we start the work on the new toolchain.
greggirwin
17:00Thanks for clarifying @dockimbel.
bubnenkoff
18:53Hey! After some frustration I found example of using extrra (I used it in the past but forgot how to work with it) and wrote next prototype:
data: [
    foo: none 
    bar: none
    lots: [
        lot: [
            number: none
        ]
        customers: [
            customer: [
                name: none
            ]
        ]
    ]
]

foo: function [] [
    level: 0
    ui: copy []
    walk: func [ data ] [
            foreach [key value] data [
                either block? value [
                    level: level + 1
                    append ui compose [pad (1x0 * level * 15) button (to-string key) extra (to-string key) return ] ; first (to-string key) for name, second for saving it's position
                    walk value
                ] [
                    append ui compose [pad (1x0 * level * 15)  button (to-string key) extra (to-string key) return ] ; first (to-string key) for name, second for saving it's position
                ]
            ]
           level: level - 1 

        ]
    walk data

    return ui
]

view foo

It's works!
hiiamboris
bubnenkoff
19:14How I can increase only first element in pairs like 0x0. + 10 add 10 both, but I need to add only to one. I can't use + 10x0 because 10 is value from word.
hiiamboris
19:21multiply 10 by something before adding
greggirwin
20:43Sometimes I just can't resist playing. Inspired by @bubnenkoff's example, here's a hack on it.
20:44
data: [
    foo: none 
    bar: none
    lots: [
        lot: [
            number: none
        ]
        customers: [
            customer: [
                name: none
            ]
        ]
    ]
]

foo: function [] [
    level: 0
    ui: copy []
    key-path: make path! []	; this looks empty, but it's like an invisible empty block

    add-ctl: func [key][
        ; first key use is for name, second for saving its key
        append ui compose/deep/only [
            pad (1x0 * level * 15)
            button (form key) extra [key (key) path (copy key-path)] [
                print ["Current value:" mold get face/extra/path]
                either block? get face/extra/path [
                    print "Don't set containers!"
                ][
                    set face/extra/path random "abcdefg"
                ]
            ]
            return
        ]
    ]

    walk: func [
        data [block!]
        /with root-key  ; quick hack to avoid lit-arg design for now
    ][
        if with [append key-path root-key]
        foreach [key value] data [
            append key-path to word! key ; can't have set-words in a path
            add-ctl key
            either block? value [
                level: level + 1
                walk value  ; recurse into nested block
            ][
                ; We aren't recursing, so drop the last key in the path
                take/last key-path
            ]
        ]
        take/last key-path
        level: level - 1 
    ]

    walk/with data 'data

    probe ui
]

view foo
print ["Data is now:" mold data]
cosacam1
23:34@bubnenkoff `
greggirwin
23:38Another blackout? ;^)
cosacam1
23:40@bubnenkoff 
a: 10 b: 4x5 c: as-pair a 0  b: b + c
23:42@bubnenkoff You asked me for my code for
23:58@bubnenkoff You asked my code for creating a tree. I've been working today on it however it's not for visually creating the tree but for getting some data from user then saving it as a tree (nested blocks) in a json file. The key is to use append/only compose/deep user-data. Only refinement is for keeping the sqare brackets. Compose is for evaluating field/text between parens. Deep refinement is for compose to work inside sub-blocks too. Unluckly I'm in a blackout again so I can't send you my program now.

cosacam1
00:00@bubnenkoff I see you de
00:02@bubnenkoff I see you developed a solution and gregg made a variation of it. I will study both when I have electrticity again.
qtxie
03:27@ldci Added CHANGE action for image!
03:27
a: make image! reduce [100x100 red]
b: make image! reduce [50x50 green]
change at a 25x25 b
view [image a]
ldci
06:12@qtxie Thanks a lot:)
bubnenkoff
07:26@cosacam1 thanks!

@greggirwin what random do here? set face/extra/path random "abcdefg"? Why it's needed?
qtxie
08:26@ldci It's much faster than the pure Red version.

>> (dt [loop 1000 [change-at a b 25x25]]) / (dt [loop 1000 [change at a 25x25 b]])
== 419.1689133726497
ldci
08:34@qtxie A new Red version:
change-at: function [
	img1	[image!]	;--first image
	pos		[pair!]		;--offseting position
	img2 	[image!]	;--second image
][
	nRows: 	img2/size/x 
	nLines: img2/size/y
	if any [pos/x = 0 pos/y = 0] [pos: 1x1]		;--Red is 1-based 
	;--image 2 must be contained in image 1: we ignore extra pixels
	if (pos/x + img2/size/x) > img1/size/x [nRows:  img1/size/x - pos/x + 1]
	if (pos/y + img2/size/y) > img1/size/y [nLines: img1/size/y - pos/y + 1]
	
	line: 1
	offset: (pos/y - 1 * img1/size/x) + pos/x
	until [
		row: 1
		;print offset
		while [row <= nRows][
			img1/(offset): img2/(row)
			row: row + 1
			offset: offset + 1
		]
		offset: pos/y - 1 + line 
		offset: offset * img1/size/x + pos/x
		line: line + 1
		any [line = (nLines + 1) offset > (img1/size/x * img1/size/y)]
	]
]

greggirwin
18:43> what random do here? set face/extra/path random "abcdefg"? Why it's needed?

To show that it can update the data based on the key-path the face holds.

bubnenkoff
08:04is it possible to fully change panel to another like:
view [
	p1: panel red [
		button return 
		button return
		button
	]

	button "change panel" [ 
		p1: panel green [ ; panel with new content
			field return
			field return 
			field

		]

	]
]
hiiamboris
08:12by modifying window/pane
bubnenkoff
08:27
view [
	p: panel red [
		button return 
		button
	]

	button [
		append window/pane [button]
	]

]


> Script Error: window is unset in path window/pane
hiiamboris
08:32window is the face where panel is located
08:32how can you access it?
bubnenkoff
08:40Than I am not understanding how to access to change it. I have ideas only like:
win: [

	button [ append face/pane [button "test"]   ]
]

view win

But it also do not work
hiiamboris
08:41you may have read in the docs that there's a tree of faces, right?
08:43how do you get a level up on that tree?
bubnenkoff
08:48parent level is face, so accessing from body of layout should be to window if I right understand how all works
hiiamboris
08:50no face is the button itself in this case
bubnenkoff
13:15Do not understand docs. It's saying: parent - Back-reference to parent face (if any).. But face do same.
So face/parent is parent of parent face or what?
13:51Also I can't find in VIS docs with I seeing that this word is using quite
14:10I am not fully understand how with and react/later works in next code:
view/flags [
	p: panel red with [ react/later [ size: parent/size - (self/offset * 2) ] ]  [
		a: area with [ react/later [ size: parent/size - (self/offset * 2) ] ] 	
		]

	] 	[resize]
15:00I have done example of panel that that have dynamic with and fixed height:
view/flags [
	p: panel red with [ react/later [ width: (first parent/size * 20%) height: 100 size: as-pair width height  ] ] [
		]

	] 	[resize]
hiiamboris
15:22> So face/parent is parent of parent face or what?

Yes
15:24> Also I can't find in VIS docs with I seeing that this word is using quite

https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/vid.adoc#with
15:28> have done example of panel that that have dynamic with and fixed height

Good. That's a start ;)
bubnenkoff
15:30Is there any good way to do resizable UI. Here button do not change it's position when UI is resizing:
view/flags [
	field with [ react/later [ width: (first parent/size * 80%) height: 25 size: as-pair width height  ] ] 
	button "ok"

	] 	[resize]

Should I also calculate pad for it? Or there is better way?
hiiamboris
15:32Yes, you'll have to change it's offset. How would button know what it should do unless you tell it?
15:33Here's a simpler way: https://gitlab.com/hiiamboris/red-elastic-ui but perhaps you wanna learn how to do it yourself..
bubnenkoff
15:37hm... maybe I should put field in come kind of container and button will take all remain space from the right of it?
hiiamboris
15:40No, View just doesn't do that. Elastic UI does:
view/flags elastic [field #fill-x button "ok" #fix-x] 'resize
![](https://i.gyazo.com/b477de67f59fda853cfa7a7335f3d5c9.gif)
bubnenkoff
15:43So impossible to do like (UI elements are not showing):
view/flags [
	p: box with [ react/later [ width: (first parent/size * 80%) height: 110 size: as-pair width height  ] ] [
		field with [ react/later [ size: parent/size * 100% ] ]
		button "ok"
		]

	] 	[resize]

hiiamboris
15:45No, box is a transparent base.
15:51In Spaces it's automatic:
![](https://i.gyazo.com/9e473f04c6711bced3c6a449025dc9ef.gif)
bubnenkoff
15:54Ok! Thanks!
15:55I will wait at least beta stage
hiiamboris
15:56You know that View is not going to be changed until the core is finished, yes? That is, no less than a year from now.
bubnenkoff
16:00Yes, I think I will try to use view as it is and hope to rewrite UI someday in future to Spaces.
need only figure out how to change panels ) I still did not understand how to access to window
hiiamboris
16:01Well, you have found parent/size, so you're closer now to parent/pane ;)
bubnenkoff
16:07
view [
	p: panel red [
		button return 
		button
	]

	button [
		append parent/pane [button]
	]

]

heh:
*** Script Error: parent is unset in path parent/pane
hiiamboris
16:09Unset indeed. Actor code is not bound to the face.
16:09How do you access it from the actor?
bubnenkoff
16:11I have only one idea that do not work:
append face/parent/pane [button]
hiiamboris
16:11Almost there.
16:12Inspect face/parent/pane. Values of what datatype are inside it?
bubnenkoff
16:12Almost -- you mean I need to reduce [button] ? I tried it too: button has no value
hiiamboris
16:13Don't do random things. Follow my questions ;)
16:13As you progress, you will learn.
bubnenkoff
16:14There objects. So I need to add button as object. Yes?
hiiamboris
16:14Objects! True! So how do you *usually* turn word button into a button object?
16:15(obviously the object has to be created by something)
bubnenkoff
16:16I know only one long way - describe it's as object make object! .... (do not remember full syntax)
hiiamboris
16:16Well, one tip: view [stuff] is equivalent to view layout [stuff] because view internally calls layout.
16:17There's also make-face, but probably not needed here.
bubnenkoff
16:17Oh! That's work:
view [
	p: panel red [
		button return 
		button
	]

	button [
		append face/parent/pane layout/only [button]
	]

]
16:18thanks!
hiiamboris
16:18:clap:
bubnenkoff
16:18So in this way I could hide panel and show on it place panel with another content?
hiiamboris
16:19Also mind that you may have to adjust /offset of the button you've created (it will always be at 10x10 otherwise)
16:19> So in this way I could hide panel and show on it place panel with another content?

Yes. But also you could have declared a few panels with hidden flag and one visible, and then just changed the /visible? facet when you need it.
bubnenkoff
16:21on same place? Just to switch between them?
hiiamboris
16:21Yeah
bubnenkoff
16:22perfect! Thanks!
hiiamboris
16:22You're welcome
bubnenkoff
18:44I remember I have asked about getting selected text from area, but is it hard to get from rich-text?
greggirwin
18:46https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/rtd.adoc
hiiamboris
18:48Rich-text is not interactive.
greggirwin
18:51You can track selection though.
18:52It just doesn't do it automatically.

luce80
17:38@bubnenkoff About a resizable UI, if you have a simple UI where the styles simply "follow" the borders you can do as I did in the bottom part of [this useful script](https://gist.github.com/luce80/bfa8b54ca8c7e726723072786cad56fa)
bubnenkoff
18:29@luce80 big thanks! look good! But do you have mode docs? It's not very clear how to add it to exist code
cosacam1
19:10Hi there. Is there an on-close (or something) event to take some action before a window is closed, even to avoid it to be closed? thanks
hiiamboris
19:13Exactly. on-close :)
19:16This chapter explains how to intercept events https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/view.adoc#114-event-flow
cosacam1
19:17However `
view [button [unview]] on-close [print "so long!"]
*** Script Error: on-close has no value
*** Where: catch
*** Near : on-close [print "so long!"]
*** Stack:
hiiamboris
19:18use /options facet
19:19or put your actors at the beginning of view block (but it's not by design ;)
cosacam1
19:24view/options [button [unview]] [on-close: [print "so long!"]] doesn't show error but prints nothing either
gurzgri
19:28It's view [on-close [print "so long!"] button [unview]].
hiiamboris
19:29/options is not a dialect, just Red code
cosacam1
19:32@gurzgri Thanks but it does not print message
gurzgri
19:32> or put your actors at the beginning of view block (but it's not by design ;)

At least it's [documented](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/vid.adoc#34-actors-definition) I think.
hiiamboris
19:35Oh great then. I just remember it caused some troubles..
gurzgri
19:36@cosacam1 on-close actor is triggered on closing the window with the close icon in the tile bar. If you wan't the button to result in that action too, then do something like

view [on-close [print "so long!"] button [do-actor face/parent none 'close unview]]
cosacam1
19:40Yes, @gurzgri I 've just noticed that with example given in Helpin' Red. Thanks. And what about to avoid closing?
greggirwin
19:45
view/options [
    title "Closed window"
    size 500x600
][
    actors: object [
        on-close: function [face event][
            view/flags layout [
                text "Do you want to close? <yes> <No>"
                style b: button
                b "Yes" [ret: 'done unview]
                b "No" [ret: 'continue unview]
            ][modal popup]
            ret
        ]
    ]
]
hiiamboris
19:53click "X" twice ;)
cosacam1
19:54So continue is another return value for the event. I knew about 'done and 'stop, now 'continue. Anything else? Any document about it? Thanks hiiamboris, christian and gregg.
gurzgri
19:56[Global event handlers](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/view.adoc#115-global-event-handlers)
19:57'continue you've just made up I guess, @greggirwin, to contrast the return value with 'done, didn't you?
20:03And 'done doesn't seem to prevent the window from being closed when returned in the containers on-close as in

view window: layout [on-close [print "You'd better stay!" 'done] text "Stay for good"]

(but atm I'm not on the very latest red-latest)
hiiamboris
20:05continue seems undocumented (no other token seems to work)
20:06also this breaks the general capturing/bubbling design, where for other events you have to capture them to intercept
20:09@dockimbel
cosacam1
20:12Yeap, undocumented, the link given by Christian only mentions 'done, 'stop and none. Ok, I'm learning from you guys. Thanks
20:17Guys. I'm embarrased. There's no way I can format properly my code in the black box like everybody else. I'm typing in my laptop now but most the times I chat with you using my phone. I use the triple apostrohes (the one located above Tab in my laptop keyboard) however I cannot do it right. Sorry if I bother you
20:21@bubnenkoff I finished the sample program for creating a json file from my tree-like data. If you're still interested...
20:22It is 215 lines long
gurzgri
20:28Not triple apostrophes but [triple backticks followed by Red word](https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/working-with-advanced-formatting/creating-and-highlighting-code-blocks) for Red code blocks. And blank lines before an after backtick blocks are suggested. Single backticks for inlining code.
greggirwin
21:06> click "X" twice ;)

Shows default handling. :^)
21:07I remember these events being a little tricky when I used them long ago.
21:07That is, I couldn't just remember them and get them right.

bubnenkoff
06:48@cosacam1 could you show how it's work?
greggirwin
17:45I did in the example above.

bubnenkoff
12:18> 
> data: [
>     foo: none 
>     bar: none
>     lots: [
>         lot: [
>             number: none
>         ]
>         customers: [
>             customer: [
>                 name: none
>             ]
>         ]
>     ]
> ]
> 
> foo: function [] [
>     level: 0
>     ui: copy []
>     key-path: make path! []	; this looks empty, but it's like an invisible empty block
> 
>     add-ctl: func [key][
>         ; first key use is for name, second for saving its key
>         append ui compose/deep/only [
>             pad (1x0 * level * 15)
>             button (form key) extra [key (key) path (copy key-path)] [
>                 print ["Current value:" mold get face/extra/path]
>                 either block? get face/extra/path [
>                     print "Don't set containers!"
>                 ][
>                     set face/extra/path random "abcdefg"
>                 ]
>             ]
>             return
>         ]
>     ]
> 
>     walk: func [
>         data [block!]
>         /with root-key  ; quick hack to avoid lit-arg design for now
>     ][
>         if with [append key-path root-key]
>         foreach [key value] data [
>             append key-path to word! key ; can't have set-words in a path
>             add-ctl key
>             either block? value [
>                 level: level + 1
>                 walk value  ; recurse into nested block
>             ][
>                 ; We aren't recursing, so drop the last key in the path
>                 take/last key-path
>             ]
>         ]
>         take/last key-path
>         level: level - 1 
>     ]
> 
>     walk/with data 'data
> 
>     probe ui
> ]
> 
> view foo
> print ["Data is now:" mold data]
>


I went back to study an example. It's not still clear for me what path is
button (form key) extra [key (key) path (copy key-path)]

I tried to inspect button object but did not see no properties named path:
>> view [b: button]
>> probe :b

hiiamboris
12:23look in extra

bubnenkoff
07:17
/with root-key  ; quick hack to avoid lit-arg design for now

Did not understand about lit-arg design
09:26Also I can't understand how compose/deep/only works:
>> compose/only [ [(2 + 2)] ]
== [[(2 + 2)]]
>> 
>> compose/deep/only [ [(2 + 2)] ]
== [[4]]
>> 
>> compose/deep [ [(2 + 2)] ]
== [[4]]
>> compose/deep [ 1 2 3 [(2 + 2)] ]
== [1 2 3 [4]]
>> 
>> compose/deep/only [ 1 2 3 [(2 + 2)] ]
== [1 2 3 [4]]
hiiamboris
10:33What does /only docstring say?
10:33And /deep
bubnenkoff
10:39
/only Compose nested blocks as blocks containing their values.

deep - I understand)
hiiamboris
10:40Well, try it with blocks, not just 2 + 2
bubnenkoff
10:41
>> a: "hello"
== "hello"
>> compose/deep/only [1 2 3 [(a)]]
== [1 2 3 ["hello"]]


10:45@hiiamboris How stable Spaces stable now? I have a task to build complex UI and I have some problems that VID is not perfect for it, and I see that Spaces is much more powerful, so is it's time to start or you will do some breaking changes?
hiiamboris
11:39No breaking changes, you can use it.
11:40> >> a: "hello"

That's not a block
bubnenkoff
11:55Oh! I understood!
13:16@greggirwin big thanks for your example! I learned a lot from it. But now I decided to continue mine code, because I understand it's better.
Just to show what I am trying to reach (there is a lot of work) but mode complex example:
data: [
    foo: 1 
    bar: none
    lots: [
        lot: [
            number: none
            price: none
            date: none
        ]
        customers: [
            customer: [
                name: none
            ]
        ]
    ]
]

foo: function [] [
    level: 0
    add-button-added?: false
    words-added?: false
    parent-name: none

    if (level = 0) [parent-name: 'data] ;  for root parent always data 

    ui: copy [
        panel red []
        panel blue []
    ]
    walk: func [ data ] [
            foreach [key value] data [

                either block? value [                    
                    
                        if (level = 0) [
                        append ui/3 compose/deep [pad (1x0 * level * 15) button "add block"  button ( rejoin ["add field " parent-name ]  ) extra (to-string key) pad 0x-10 return ]
                        add-button-added?: true
                    ]
                    level: level + 1
                    append ui/3 compose/deep [pad (1x0 * level * 15) field data [(key)]  button "add block" button "add field" extra (to-string key)  pad 0x-10 return ] ; first (to-string key) for name, second for saving it's position

                    parent-name: key ; save parent name

                    walk value
                ] [

                    append ui/3 compose/deep [pad (1x0 * level * 15) field data [(key)] pad -10x0 field data [(value)] extra (to-string key)  pad 0x-10 return ] ; first (to-string key) for name, second for saving it's position

                ]
            ]
           level: level - 1 

        ]
    walk data

    return ui
]

view foo
greggirwin
17:48Keep making progress. :^)

bubnenkoff
08:43> I forgot why next code is add only one field to UI:
> 
> add-field: function [] [
>     append p/parent/pane layout/only [field]
> ]
> 
> view [
>  p: panel [
>  ]
>  button "add" [add-field ]
> ]
>

> I thought it should add as many fields as was clicked on add button
>

Code above work. What I am missing here?
add-field: function [] [
    append ui/parent/pane layout/only [field]
]

ui: [
	button "add" [add-field ]
]
view ui

error: *** Script Error: path ui/parent/pane is not valid for none! type
hiiamboris
09:12what is ui?
bubnenkoff
09:13block!
hiiamboris
09:26indeed, and do you see parent in that block?
bubnenkoff
09:26so it getting parent only at moment of evaluation it with view?
hiiamboris
09:27you should use face available to every actor
09:27view doesn't do anything with your ui block, no magic involved
bubnenkoff
09:29
add-field: function [] [
	append face/parent/pane layout/only [field]
]
ui: [
	button "add" [add-field ]
]

view ui

Script Error: face is unset in path face/parent/pane
hiiamboris
09:29I said to every actor, not to every function
09:30where is the actor in your code?
bubnenkoff
09:31button should be an actor, or I do not understand what else could be actor... %)
hiiamboris
09:32no, button is a face
09:32actor is something that *acts* upon events
bubnenkoff
09:32on click event. So [add-field ] is actor?
hiiamboris
09:32exactly
09:33face and event are defined only within that block
bubnenkoff
09:38Ok. Your are saying:
you should use face available to every actor
and [add-field ] is actor

So I can't imagine how it should look like...
hiiamboris
09:40you have to somehow pass face to add-field I guess
bubnenkoff
09:48Wow! Did not think that it's possible!
add-field: function [face] [
	append face/parent/pane layout/only [field]
]

ui: [
	button "add" [add-field face]
]

view ui

yes it's works!
hiiamboris
09:50:clap:
gurzgri
13:11@bubnenkoff Just have a look into what happens with an actor defined in VID:

>> layout [btn: button [do something]] probe btn/actors
make object! [
    on-click: func [[trace] face [object!] event [event! none!]][do something]
]


The actor block is used to create a function having args face and event, both of which you can use in it's body without them being declared somehow in the VID dialect.
13:16When a face recieves an click event, the View system calls the face's on-click actor function as in do-actor face event 'click to process it. That's why face in the actor body can be used.
hiiamboris
13:20And it's [documented](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/vid.adoc#actors) ;)
bubnenkoff
17:56why binding with offset do not work?
view [ size 300x300 f: field with [offset: 50x30] ]

I am seeing field on same position every time
gurzgri
18:21view calls layout which lays out the window's pane sub-faces, offsetting them according to VID rules. Use e.g. at.
bubnenkoff
18:35ah! thanks!
18:38@gurzgri so it would work inside panel ?
18:40hm.... If layout is placing faces according VID rules when I can use offset ?
hiiamboris
18:41after or during faces creation
bubnenkoff
18:43I can't understand moment when offset become at. As I understand they work same
hiiamboris
18:44at is a keyword for layout, that it uses when it creates face objects and sets their offset
18:45what exactly do you want to achieve? maybe there's a better way
bubnenkoff
18:51@hiiamboris I am still continue experiments with generation complex tree that refresh UI. But small example is look like:
add-field: function [face] [
	append face/parent/pane layout/only [field at 0x30] ; I need way to put field in custom position
]

ui: [
	button "add" [add-field face]
]

view ui

So I want to add some offset
hiiamboris
18:55you're misusing at keyword
18:55re-read the docs
bubnenkoff
19:00you are right again)
hiiamboris

GiuseppeChillemi
20:45I would like to learn how to use assert, do we have some documentation?
hiiamboris
20:47https://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs.html#section-12.1
20:47https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-common/src/branch/master/assert.md

bubnenkoff
17:22I know that it should be better place it's in docs, but maybe someone will look in search removing element from a face. Example:
view [p: panel [ button]  button "remove" [ p/pane: [] ] ]

it's clear panel and remove button from it
cosacam1
21:00
Red
view [test]
21:03well it works, my code is formatted properly here in a black box, but I needed to type shift+enter instead of enter. How to do it if I were typing from a phone? Or how to copy&paste a piece of code where I typed Enter all the time?
hiiamboris
21:16Phone app usually does not send the message until it sees one of .!?
21:17But if it's not working you can always access this chat [from matrix](https://matrix.to/#/#red_help:gitter.im?utm_source=gitter)
cosacam1
21:17should I put here an example program I made to show how to manipulate a little database in json? Or should I put it in some other place? In that case, where?
hiiamboris
21:18https://gist.github.com
cosacam1
21:26OK, here it is https://gist.github.com/cosacam1/0e5702505c92a5e1f34e69e94f264d7e
21:28Thanks hiiamboris, but my question is: Do I need to type shift+enter in every line instead of plain enter?
21:28Let me try:
21:37
Red [needs: view]

view [
    tab-panel [
        "One" [
            field
            button "Ok"
        ]
        "Two" [
            box blue loose
        ]
    ]
]
21:39
Red
Red [needs: view]

view [
    tab-panel [
        "One" [
            field
            button "Ok"
        ]
        "Two" [
            box blue loose
        ]
    ]
]

No, it does not work without shift+enter
21:40Yes it does! I must finish my message with Ctrl+Enter
21:57Thanks, guys

hiiamboris
12:28*** Script Error: reset-start-pos has no value
bubnenkoff
12:32I forgot to remove it. one moment
12:33
data: [
    foo: 1 
    bar: none

]


clear-panel: func[] [
    print "clear-panel"
    ppp/pane: []
    row-added-count: 0
]

row-added-count: 0
level-vertical-offset: function[/extern row-added-count] [
   return to-pair compose [0 ( row-added-count * 30)]
]



ui: copy [
    size 520x700
    ppp: panel red 340x690 [

    ]
     button "start" [foo face]
     button "clear panel" [clear-panel]
    
]

foo: func [face] [
    print "foo"

    walk: func [ data ] [
            foreach [key value] data [
              append ppp/pane layout/only compose/deep [at ( level-vertical-offset ) field ] ; first (to-string key) for name, second for saving it's position
              row-added-count: row-added-count + 1
            ]

        ]
    walk data

 
]

view ui


I can't understand why removing stop works after few: add control, remove, again add and agai remove
hiiamboris
12:36we're back to https://github.com/red/red/wiki/[DOC]-Why-you-have-to-copy-series-values
bubnenkoff
12:45Heh, this article is hard even for people that have some experience. Honestly I do not see place in my code where could be issue with copy
hiiamboris
12:47in the piece that doesn't work ;)
12:50> hard even for people that have some experience

ok let me try: *every time you write a **literal** series in your code, you have to ask yourself: am I not modifying it?*
12:51I've counted 27 literal series in the above code.
bubnenkoff
12:53I found issue:
clear ppp/pane ; that's work

But should create new empty series that remove old data
ppp/pane: []

hiiamboris
13:00@bubnenkoff you count now. How many series do you see in your code?
13:01(I made a mistake since I'm bad at counting ;)
bubnenkoff
13:03I counted 7
13:06I am not sure if function args is series, possible they are so I need plus them
hiiamboris
13:28Wrong ;)
13:28
>> ? series!
SERIES! is a typeset! value: [block! paren! string! file! url! path! lit-path! set-path! get-path! vector! hash! binary! tag! email! ref! image!]
13:29Reminder for you
bubnenkoff
14:31oh... but I still do not understand issue with copy
>> foo: [a b c]
== [a b c]
>> foo: [] ; not it become empty
== []
>> probe foo
[]
== []
>>
hiiamboris
14:34OK count series in this fragment:
f: func [] [print append "hello " "world"]
bubnenkoff
14:473:
f:
"hello"
"world"
hiiamboris
14:48what type is f:?
bubnenkoff
14:48set-word!
hiiamboris
14:48is set-word! a series?
14:48
>> find series! set-word!
== ?
bubnenkoff
14:49It seems that set-word! is exception from list above, there is set-path! but no set-word!
hiiamboris
14:50Indeed. All paths are there if you look closely, but no words.
14:50So f: is not a series. But you've missed some, find more.
bubnenkoff
14:51[] is block!
and body of function is block too, so all of them is series!
hiiamboris
14:52Yes. So that makes 4?
bubnenkoff
hiiamboris
14:52And is this function f working or buggy?
bubnenkoff
14:53oh! it's buggy!
hiiamboris
14:53Indeed! And why?
bubnenkoff
14:55I do not understand where it's do appending, it seems that it append to block! itself but I do not understand why it do so.
I need away from PC, brb late
hiiamboris
14:55Sure. Think on it while you're away.
greggirwin
17:53Also, it is *critical* to understand that playing in the console and running scripts will not show the same behavior, as many people expect it will. If you paste your code into a console, then you can see how the interpreter sees it more than how you do as a human. e.g. every line you type is like a new line in a script.
hiiamboris
19:01I'm facing a challenge. How can I define a #macro1 that enables #macro2 until the end of the block it appears in, but not after leaving it?
19:20My only idea is to parse the rest of the block myself, but then I will have to assume independence of #macro2 from any other macros defined. If some macro leaves #macro2 after itself, I won't know because I'm processing everything ahead of the preprocessor.
greggirwin
19:22My first thought is that you'd have to use a flag in #macro1, which #macro2 checks.
19:27But that comes back to finding the end of the block again.
19:28It seems like a tricky pattern in any case, because you're already inside the block, correct? So you'd have to back up and find the start of the block you're in.
hiiamboris
19:29Bingo! I can make #macro1 leave a #macro3 marker before the tail that will turn #macro2 off. Thanks.
19:30No need to find the start though. From the #macro1 location it will be fine.
19:31Will need some kind of stack though, for nested blocks.
greggirwin
19:31Even if more blocks come before the end of the one you're in? In any case, it's clever to use another macro for it, which I hadn't thought about.
hiiamboris
19:32Yes, that's why stack will be needed.
greggirwin
19:32I was writing while you were. :^)
hiiamboris
greggirwin
19:33So now you have #stackro handling to create. :^)
dockimbel
20:48@hiiamboris This feature might help: https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/preprocessor.adoc#local
hiiamboris
21:07Hmm. Then I will have to define new macro in every block. I guess it's an option, but seems more work.
bgrossot
21:13Hello, I have not find in doc what return the stats function. Any idea ?
hiiamboris
21:17Number of bytes allocated.
21:31I figured how to write #macro1 without #macro3 and without even affecting nested blocks. I just need to list all blocks #macro1 appears in in some list, and check the blocks #macro2 appears in for presence in that list.
21:33Can even do parse-time checking in the macro pattern.

bubnenkoff
09:05
f: func [] [print append "hello " "world"]

I have only idea that it works in next way:
hello and every series! point to it's container. That now block! and we bind it with block! and than we continue to append "word" to it

hiiamboris
09:07no, no need to involve container at all
09:08I suggest seeing ?? f output after a few f calls
bubnenkoff
09:19ah... it seems that I am begin to understand.
first hello is series and we begin add to add data to it again and again because it's binded to with it in memory
hiiamboris
09:21yes, append receives a series which it modifies *in place*
09:21it adds *directly* to "hello " we see
09:21we didn't copy it, so it grows
09:22in the same way when you write thing: [] you didn't copy the block that thing refers to
09:22so it will be modified
bubnenkoff
09:36oh. Thanks! Now I understand the situation much better, but why first removing controls in my example works?
hiiamboris
09:39because pane was assigned a block internally, then you appended to that block
then you assigned your own block [] so the other one got lost together with it's faces
but later you assigned the *same your* block again, you didn't change it, so you keep appending to it
bubnenkoff
09:47Oh! Big thanks for explanation! It's hard to keep in mind specific of copy
11:24How to get coloring work immediately after adding control? on-change event to not handle default value:
foo: function [] [
  append ppp/pane layout/only compose/deep [ field data ["none"] on-change [either face/text == "none" [face/color: red] [face/color: none] ]  ] 
]
view [ ppp: panel [    ] button [foo] ]

hiiamboris
11:26at some point in foo you get a block of face! objects
11:26modify them
bubnenkoff
11:39some point = button click event?
hiiamboris
11:43that is an exercise for you
bubnenkoff
11:44I remember that I can pass face to function, but I can't understand is it this case?
hiiamboris
11:45you remember what kind of data is in pane?
bubnenkoff
11:46pane with block that contain faces I think
hiiamboris
11:47right
11:47you get these faces from somewhere
11:47modify them before appending
bubnenkoff
11:56You mean this?
foo: function [face] [
  append ppp/pane layout/only compose/deep [ field with [color: red] data ["none"] on-change [either face/text == "none" [face/color: red] [face/color: none] ]   ] 
]

view [ ppp: panel [    ] button [foo face] ]

to bind it's with default color?
11:58or what kind of modifications I can do...
hiiamboris
12:02sorry, I gave you too many hints already ;)
12:02it's up to you now to work it out
bubnenkoff
12:02ok) thanks)
hiiamboris
12:04I can only say it's sooo much simpler than what you're doing ;)
12:07@bubnenkoff maybe I don't get what you're trying to do though
12:08you already colored it, what's wrong with that?
bubnenkoff
12:11I tried to get colorizing work without on-change event. Binding with color: red~~is solve my problem~~, but I thought that there is any other way to do it
hiiamboris
12:13there's always another way..
bubnenkoff
12:14I was wrong that it solve problem)
hiiamboris
12:15why not? :)
bubnenkoff
12:15Because blank fields become red by default)
12:16[![изображение.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/CKjl/thumb/izobrazhenie.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/CKjl/izobrazhenie.png)
hiiamboris
12:17when they *should* be red?
bubnenkoff
12:19I need to colorize to red only none values at moment of it's adding
hiiamboris
12:21try [reactivity](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/reactivity.adoc)
bubnenkoff
12:49
bar: function [face] [
	 either (face/text = "none") [red] [none]
]

foo: function [face] [
  append ppp/pane layout/only compose/deep [ field data ["none"] react [ face/color: bar face  ] ] 
]

view [ ppp: panel [    ] button [foo face] ]

Do not work at all....
hiiamboris
12:50try inlining bar
12:51or, hackish way: react [ [face/text] face/color: bar face ]
bubnenkoff
12:53one moment
12:55
foo: function [face] [
  append ppp/pane layout/only [ field data ["none"] react [ face/color: either (face/text = "none") [red] [none]  ] ] 
]

view [ ppp: panel [    ] button [foo face] ]

is it right inline version?
hiiamboris
12:55should be
bubnenkoff
12:56But it's do not work :(
hiiamboris
12:56works for me
bubnenkoff
12:57And if you are changing value from none to any other it's work? and change color?
hiiamboris
12:58![](https://i.gyazo.com/bf292283fa30bb06c5103cc158160778.gif)
12:58Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 3-Sep-2022/17:53:01+03:00 commit #cb83eca
bubnenkoff
13:00wow! Cool! I will try to upgrade. My version is seems out of date:
Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 3-Feb-2022/20:16:35+03:00  commit #fbdf84d
hiiamboris
13:01https://github.com/red/red/issues/5103 was fixed recently, probably the case
bubnenkoff
13:03yes, now it's works for me to
13:03thanks!
hiiamboris
18:49@bubnenkoff try reading this please https://github.com/red/red/wiki/%5BDOC%5D-Why-you-have-to-copy-series-values#explanation-for-totally-hopeless-dummies
Let me know if my explanation is clear enough for you or some parts need work.
bubnenkoff
19:12Yes, I will read it now. It seems that I faced again with this problem. I really not understand how I am reach it %)
pos: 70x0

data: [
    foo: []
    bar: []
]

add-item: func [face] [
    ; clear ppp/pane
    ppp/pane: copy []

    append data [  test: [] ]

    foo face
]


foo: func [face] [
    print "foo"

    walk: func [ data ] [
            foreach [key value] data [
              append face/parent/pane layout/only compose [at (pos: pos + 0x30) button (to-string key) [(add-item face)] ]
            ]

        ]
    walk data

]

ui: [
    
    size 300x500
    button "add" [foo face]
    ppp: panel [    ]

]

view ui

The idea of code is next. First button is adding controls to face and by clicking of any control control add new controls to face (every added control should do same as first button). But they begin to multiply. I discovered :ppp and I am seeing that they are not removing, so it's issue with copy but I am doing: ppp/pane: copy []
hiiamboris
19:20you're not adding to ppp
bubnenkoff
19:27> @bubnenkoff try reading this please https://github.com/red/red/wiki/%5BDOC%5D-Why-you-have-to-copy-series-values#explanation-for-totally-hopeless-dummies
> Let me know if my explanation is clear enough for you or some parts need work.

Yes, now it's much better. At least now I am understanding base idea. Maybe you should add some diagram like:
`[ ]` <-- block is located in memory and can contain data. Every data with type series! Is binding with this memory block.
`copy` is indicate that we should create new block in memory and use it instead old

I am not sure if what I wrote is right, but it's my current vision %)
19:28> you're not adding to ppp

Oh may bad, sorry. I tried to reproduce error and did mistake
hiiamboris
19:29Thanks for your feedback
bubnenkoff
19:34I can't to do short example of the bug, because short version works fine. But in long version https://gist.github.com/bubnenkoff/4f9c10b03086a0a3dbbc5f5ee84a2be4
I am getting stackoverflow error
19:36to reproduce you need to add block and click to added block button add block.
Test block is named test so clicking on add block is cause an error
19:39[![изображение.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/PZro/thumb/izobrazhenie.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/PZro/izobrazhenie.png)
hiiamboris
19:47I'm only getting:
*** Script Error: append does not allow none! for its series argument
*** Where: append
*** Near : path-to-append [test: []]
*** Stack: view do-events do-actor do-safe add-item
bubnenkoff
19:49on gist above?? How it's possible?
hiiamboris
19:50dunno, I'm clicking start then add block then add block near just added test field
19:50restart your console maybe
bubnenkoff
19:50could you run it on fresh console with copy paste then:
1. click start
2. on customer click add block
3. on appeared test click add block
hiiamboris
19:51oh reproduced
19:54It's as I thought... try ?? data after the error
19:55see anything wrong with it?
bubnenkoff
19:56Yes, I am seeing. it seems I am doing append at wrong place
20:00But why it getting at recursion? I do not seeing place where is happens. I should be able to add test inside test
hiiamboris
20:01you see ... in ?? data output?
20:01that means you appended something *to itself*
bubnenkoff
20:03but why it begin to do it infinity? It should to do it only one time per click
20:11Oh, oh! It's seems I realized problem!
20:13I am finding path to append by block name, and here block name is same -- every time it's test. It's look like it's root of issue
hiiamboris
20:16well if series is infinitely nested, stack overflow is expected when traversing it
gurzgri
21:52@bubnenkoff Just for the fun of it, here's another parse based take on your find-path-to-node/walk approach, which gives equivalent results (probably minus the effects on extern words which you might rely on in other places):

find-path-to-node: function [data node] [
	path: copy []
	parse data content: [any [
		set step set-word! ahead block! 
		(   append path to word! step)
		(   if equal? node step [return new-line/all path off])
		into content 
		(   take/last path)
	|   2 skip
	]]
	none
]

jasongrossman:matrix.org
04:57I'm using red on NixOS (which currently only has one version packaged, namely red 0.64 cli). Can someone please tell me where to see the command-line options of the red command? ty!
riprwwa
05:33Have a look at the readme file in the root of the repo: https://github.com/red/red/blob/master/README.md
Read below "The full command-line syntax is:"
jasongrossman:matrix.org
05:47Thank you!
bubnenkoff
07:33> @bubnenkoff Just for the fun of it, here's another parse based take on your find-path-to-node/walk approach, which gives equivalent results (probably minus the effects on extern words which you might rely on in other places):
>
> 
Red
> find-path-to-node: function [data node] [
> 	path: copy []
> 	parse data content: [any [
> 		set step set-word! ahead block! 
> 		(   append path to word! step)
> 		(   if equal? node step [return new-line/all path off])
> 		into content 
> 		(   take/last path)
> 	|   2 skip
> 	]]
> 	none
> ]
>


Perfect! Thanks!
08:22Yesterday I thought that I have problem with recursion because I am trying to insert nodes with same name. But I was wrong.
https://gist.github.com/bubnenkoff/67026416635b3c62f6ddcfd08ab419b2
I made node name unique but I am still getting infinity loop and stack overflow. And I can't understand why.
Yes, I tried to dump data but I can't understand how it possible in my code. I do not see nothing that can trigger infinity adding.

Steps to reproduce:
1 click start
2 on customer click add block
3 on appeared random name click add block


hiiamboris
08:39I won't be able to tell a thing in such a big script ;)
08:40I suggest removing irrelevant stuff until it becomes small enough to understand
08:41For example, you don't need any View-related stuff if it's the data you can't get right. Work on data first.
08:43And you don't need walk either, unless it modifies data
bubnenkoff
09:01
if block [
         append reduce to-path path-to-append  compose [  (wrd-name) [] ] ; triggering stackoverflow
        ; append reduce to-path [data lots lot]  compose [  (wrd-name) [] ] ; works
    ]

I do not see principal differene between hardcoded path and auto generated path like: [lots customers fbgadec].
What I can try to do else?
hiiamboris
09:03have you compared [data lots lot] to path-to-append?
09:04perhaps latter keeps growing?
bubnenkoff
09:13
prin "we will appeded to: " probe path-to-append
    wrd-name: to-set-word random "abcdefg"
    if block [
         append reduce to-path path-to-append  compose [  (wrd-name) [] ] ; triggering stackoverflow
        ; append reduce to-path [data lots customers customer]  compose [  (wrd-name) [] ] ; works
    ]

click on cuctomer:
we will appeded to: [data lots customers customer]
click on new added to customer block named efdbcga:
we will appeded to: [data lots customers customer efdbcga] and then crush

it's look like correct.
09:15after first click on customer data become:
...
     customers: [
            customer: [
                name: none 
                efdbcga: [] ; it's looks right
            ]
        ]
hiiamboris
09:19find the point when data becomes cyclic
bubnenkoff
09:32hm... I have filling that it's issue with copy. I can't explain exactly but:
append reduce to-path path-to-append  compose [  (wrd-name) [] ] ; possible I should copy [] here

hiiamboris
09:33try it
bubnenkoff
09:42Yes! I was right! But I do not understand why I should use copy here((
append reduce to-path path-to-append  reduce [ wrd-name copy [] ] ; works
gurzgri
10:38That's because according to first spec-of :reduce ;== {Returns a copy of a block, evaluating all expressions} reduce only returns a copy of the one outer block, it doesn't copy all series in that block.
bubnenkoff
12:32Eght... tiny example with inline reactivity works fine:
foo: function [face] [
  append ppp/pane layout/only [ field data ["none"] react [ face/color: either any [(face/text = "none") ((length? face/text) < 2 )] [red] [none] ]   ] 
]
view [ ppp: panel [    ] button [foo face] ]


But same condition do not work at bigger project:
https://gist.github.com/bubnenkoff/f6d01055c91d2c3a4a319993a81bf035#file-app-red-L176

Nothing do not colorize on none and length < 2

hiiamboris
12:35that snippet doesn't work at all
bubnenkoff
12:36[![изображение.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/UX5Z/thumb/izobrazhenie.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/UX5Z/izobrazhenie.png)
12:36fresh console
hiiamboris
12:39
*** Syntax Error: (line 149) missing [ at ] 
*** Where: transcode
*** Near : https://gist.githubusercontent.com/bubne
*** Stack: load
12:39the big one
bubnenkoff
12:39Ah, one moment I will recheck it
12:41I tried to open fresh console. than did copy-paste from raw gist to console and I do not see any errors
hiiamboris
12:44well, why can't I?
12:45that's so weird
bubnenkoff
12:45get it work?
hiiamboris
12:45it works with Ctrl+V but not with do load or do read-clipboard
12:47I get it
12:47console simply ignores extra ] you put on the line
bubnenkoff
12:48Does colorize work for you?
hiiamboris
12:49nope
12:51you're composing it all out
12:51check the layout spec after composing
bubnenkoff
12:53> Eght... tiny example with inline reactivity works fine:
> 
> foo: function [face] [
>   append ppp/pane layout/only [ field data ["none"] react [ face/color: either any [(face/text = "none") ((length? face/text) < 2 )] [red] [none] ]   ] 
> ]
> view [ ppp: panel [    ] button [foo face] ] 
>

>
> But same condition do not work at bigger project:
> https://gist.github.com/bubnenkoff/f6d01055c91d2c3a4a319993a81bf035#file-app-red-L176
>
> Nothing do not colorize on none and length < 2
>
>

So you are seeing difference in layout in this tiny example and in big code?
hiiamboris
12:55I didn't check TBH but I spotted compose/deep and parens ;)
12:56compose is quite evil design
bubnenkoff
12:58yes) I understood)
15:42Heh) is it possible to write next code without round brackets?
if ((length? "asd") < 4) [print "less"]
hiiamboris
15:43if 4 > length? "asd"
15:43if lesser? length? "asd" 4
bubnenkoff
15:48oh! Cool! Thanks!
greggirwin
17:36> compose is quite evil design

I've never felt that way. Some patterns aren't a good fit for it, hence Ladislav's build dialect idea and others. e.g. [my inject experiment](https://gist.github.com/greggirwin/29836d25de0c68eaba0e6dbd268a20f5), but that doesn't make it evil.
hiiamboris
17:37It's evil because it keeps biting you from time to time when you least expect it.
17:38It's fine for single-line of code composition, even a few short ones, but we are actually promoting it's use even on View layouts. For that it's a very bad design.
17:39I can't count times when I was writing parens totally forgetting that I'm writing them inside some big compose/deep scope.
greggirwin
17:46That's funny reasoning.
hiiamboris
17:59Why? ;)
gurzgri
18:03> forgetting that I'm writing them inside some big compose/deep scope

compose and I are best friends since the beginning, but whenever compose was in involved in bugs in my code, it was for this very /deep reason.
hiiamboris
18:04exactly
gurzgri
18:11@bubnenkoff
> Perfect! Thanks!

You're welcome! But that find-path-to-node version comes with a special restrictive license attached: You're only allowed to use it in your code if you can credibly assure that you've processed and digested it and understand how and why it is working :wink:
bubnenkoff
18:26Is it possible to remove foo: [] at one step?
data: [ foo: [] bar: [] ]
remove data 'foo ; the block will stay

hiiamboris
18:27? remove
bubnenkoff
18:27@gurzgri yes, I understand this problem) So often prefer write my own code even if there is some shorter alternative, because at least I can fix my own
greggirwin
18:29@hiiamboris wouldn't that line of thinking make a *lot* of constructs "evil"? You say it's bitten you, and your own coding patterns or style don't fit well with it. That doesn't make it evil, or a bad design. That's on you. :^) Saying it's a bad design also implies that there's a better one, would you agree? If so, where is it?
bubnenkoff
18:29@hiiamboris yes I did it. but remove/partis require to know position of removing element
hiiamboris
18:31@greggirwin It's bitten me, Christian, Dmitry, Giuseppe, Ladislav - at least these are who testified.
18:31> Saying it's a bad design also implies that there's a better one, would you agree? If so, where is it?

https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-common/src/branch/master/reshape.md

18:32(but really, just using a not so common marker would both kill /only and get rid of bugs)
18:34(some parts in reshape design require it to walk backwards, which is powerful but also slower, so those parts are not for max juice)
18:36(optional /deep in compose is also a performance thing)
18:41> @hiiamboris yes I did it. but remove/partis require to know position of removing element

re-read it @bubnenkoff
bubnenkoff
18:49> > @hiiamboris yes I did it. but remove/partis require to know position of removing element
>
> re-read it @bubnenkoff

data: [ foo: [] bar: [] baz: [] ]
remove/part data 2 'bar
probe data
== [bar: [] baz: []]


/part => Removes a number of values, or values up to the given series index.
So I need to know index
hiiamboris
18:52> Removes **a number of** values
18:53anyway, you *always* know the index, if you wanna do it the hard way ;)
greggirwin
18:57I remember reshape now @hiiamboris. Our own design tastes can be quite distinct. I know mine can. So when I say that reshape is a massively more complex design and interface that doesn't make sense to me, that's my opinion. I'm happy for others to try it and weigh in, but it's certainly not *better* than compose IMO. Like the mutability question, compose is very simple to reason about, with a few limitations that we run up against sometimes. Omitting values is a big one.

As far as complaints against compose, I don't remember a lot through the years, compared to how much it is used.
hiiamboris
18:59you're ignoring my point:
> (but really, just using a not so common marker would both kill /only and get rid of bugs)

greggirwin
19:05So let's focus on that and try it out.
19:07Which I think was Ladislav's goal, and also mine when I updated his ideas to play.
gurzgri
20:51I second that motion, neither compose nor compose/deep are bad by themself and I wouldn't want to do without them. They are just not the best solution especially for cases where compose/deep and the paren markers are far away from each other — not so much when you write *new* code but modify/refactor *old* code. An easy oversight then, with a better aka "safer" solution yet to be proposed (at least I know of none which over time I preferred over the occasional bug hunting session).
hiiamboris
21:13> a better aka "safer" solution yet to be proposed

There are many ways you can make parens unique, from a sigil like @() !() ~() &() to refinements /splice () /single () /only () /mixin () /the () /just () /inline (), to tags () ..., to issues #splice () ..., to prefix(es) of your own choice on a per-call basis.
21:15Anyway, I'm using reshape in non-critical code all the time. If !() and @() are too hard to grok for someone, it's not my trouble ;)

cosacam1
02:09@bubnenkoff make data point to foo ie., make foo the first elememt in data. Then loop 2 [remove data] That removes both foo and the block.
02:12BTW did you see the application I put in gist ?
jasongrossman:matrix.org
02:59It seems that the syntax for extending objects is not working, unless I'm misunderstanding something:
a: make object! []
extend a [newfield 99]
*** Internal Error: reserved for future use (or not yet implemented)
*** Where: extend
*** Stack:


I can extend objects like this instead - is the best way to do it?

a: make a object [newfield: 99]


Thank you!
greggirwin
03:04Yes, extending objects is TBD, so you have to make a new one right now.
03:05But you can make the new one using just a spec block as well:
>> o: object [a: 1]
== make object! [
    a: 1
]
>> make o [b: 2]
== make object! [
    a: 1
    b: 2
]
jasongrossman:matrix.org
03:07Awesome. Thanks!
03:28I'm missing something basic about Red data structures :-(

I'd like to make a bidirectional mapping between one set of paths and another set of paths. If I use a map!, I can't see how to search both the keys and the values. Probably I'm just being blind to the right bit of documentation - sorry.

I can see how to search nicely in objects, but a path is not a word so it can't be a key in an object, right?
03:31dockimbel (Nenad Rakocevic) recently said "The real challenge is the bijective text<=>values mapping", but that was in a different context ... I hope!
hiiamboris
06:45Use a block or hash.
bubnenkoff
07:03@cosacam1 could you give link again, it seems that I missed something...

Very soon I will public my code. I almost get it work.
09:05[![изображение.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/wutl/thumb/izobrazhenie.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/wutl/izobrazhenie.png)
09:05I did it! I get it work. Full code (need some cleanup)
https://gist.github.com/bubnenkoff/5fc06bdab712130108c9b2041a845b8d

For those who do not want to run it how it's look like:
dockimbel
10:16@bubnenkoff Congrats! :+1:
bubnenkoff
12:07Is there any simple way to add scroller to main app window if content is not feat in it?
view [
    size 150x150
	
	button "aa" return 
	button "bb" return 
	button "cc" return 
	button "dd" return 
	button "ee" return 
	button "ff" return 
	button "gg" 
	below
	scroller [
      
    ]

]

(code not works)
I looked at examples here and all of them with calculation of elements size manually
hiiamboris
12:14https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-common/src/branch/master/scrollpanel.md
12:15As far as simple goes...
bubnenkoff
12:20I'd prefer native solution even if it would not so accurate.
I am not fully understand how scroller works. It's face, but if I am typing it in console it look like data type:
>> ? scroller!
SCROLLER! is an object! with the following words and values:
     position    none!         none
     page-size   none!         none
     min-size    integer!      1
     max-size    none!         none
     visible?    logic!        true
     vertical?   logic!        true
     parent      none!         none
     on-change*  function!     [word old new]
hiiamboris
12:31It's half baked so good luck ;)
12:35Use scroller VID style.
12:35But beware: 2D scrolling panel is one of the trickiest widgets to get right ;)
12:37If you only need vertical scroller IIRC there's some hack to get it to show for a base face (which can also act as a panel IIRC), using get-scroller func
12:39I have some examples stashed, probably from Toomas:
view [
    size 390x220
    across space 0x0
    panel 350x200 [
        origin 0x0 space 0x0
        p: panel 350x800 [
            origin 0x0 space 0x0
            below
            area "A" 350x200
            area "B" 350x200
            area "C" 350x200
            area "D" 350x200
        ]
    ]
    scroller 16x200 [
        face/data: min .75 face/data
        p/offset/y: to integer! negate 800 * face/data
    ] 
    on-created [face/selected: 25%]
]
12:39
view [
    size 390x220
    across space 0x0
    base 367x200 with [
        flags: 'scrollable
        pane: layout/only [
            origin 0x0 space 0x0
            p: panel 350x800 [
                origin 0x0 space 0x0
                below
                area "A" 350x200
                area "B" 350x200
                area "C" 350x200
                area "D" 350x200
            ]
        ]
    ]
    on-created [
        put get-scroller face 'horizontal 'visible? no
        sc: get-scroller face 'vertical
        sc/position: 0
        sc/page-size: 200
        sc/max-size: 800
    ]
    on-scroll [
        sc/position: max 0 min 600 switch event/key [
            down [sc/position + 20]
            up [sc/position - 20]
            page-down [sc/position + sc/page-size]
            page-up [sc/position - sc/page-size]
            track [event/picked - 1]
            end [sc/position]
        ]
        p/offset: as-pair 0 negate sc/position
    ] 
]
12:41But base as panel probably doesn't work since D2D merge.
bubnenkoff
12:42Ogh..)) new challenge)
12:42Does this problem solved in Spaces?
hiiamboris
12:43Indeed, but you can't use View faces inside Spaces.
bubnenkoff
12:43> Use scroller VID style.

Examples above not about it? Could you show what is scroller VID style.
hiiamboris
12:43First is
dockimbel
14:30@bubnenkoff You can use the built-in scroller widget, it's not that hard, even if it's currently limited:
https://gist.github.com/dockimbel/8a5bcf3acb470d0dd9f4dd0a07da7817
greggirwin
18:30> I'd like to make a bidirectional mapping between one set of paths and another set of paths.

@jasongrossman:matrix.org do you have an example in another lang that shows how you do it? As @hiiamboris said you can use a block or hash, but path *notation* is always "forward looking" i.e., select the next value in the path after the key. So if you do a key-val block, you'll need helpers to step backwards from the value. Whether your keys and values are guaranteed to be unique also comes into play.

You can also do fun things, like this:
blk: [k1 v1 k1   k2 v2 k2   k3 v3 k3]
blk/k1
blk/v2
blk/k3
blk/v3

Paste that into a Red console and see if you understand what it's doing. And does it work with select? Does it work if the keys or values are not unique?

cosacam1
19:47@bubnenkoff here is my link
19:51https://gist.github.com/cosacam1/0e5702505c92a5e1f34e69e94f264d7e
jasongrossman:matrix.org
22:23@greggirwin (Gregg Irwin) Thank you! That gives me a lot to think about. I think you've already answered my main question, which is what is idiomatic in Red. I love the blk: [k1 v1 k1 k2 v2 k2 k3 v3 k3] example.
22:26As for examples in other languages: in many other languages, maps can have any datatype as their keys. In some other languages (e.g. Smalltalk, Self, Io), even objects can have any datatype as their field names. In Red I can't have paths (or strings) as keys in maps or as field names in objects, right? But I can have them in blocks. So I think I now have enough to go on. Thank you!
22:30My subsidiary question was about whether I could search for values in maps the way I can in objects ... but now I think I should give up on maps (because they can't have paths, or even strings, as keys). That leaves blocks, and I think I understand searching in blocks. Your points will help me check that I do.
greggirwin
22:41Strings as keys work just fine.
>> m-1: #("A" 1 "B" 2)
== #(
    "A" 1
    "B" 2
)
>> m-1/"A"
== 1
>> m-1/"B"
== 2

Finding works on values-of, but maps are unordered, so you can really only tell if a value exists, not which key it maps to. At least there are no guarantees, but for now you can use index? to check the position against keys-of.

You're correct that you can't use block types (of which paths are one) as map keys.
jasongrossman:matrix.org
22:42Can't think why I thought otherwise - I may have experimentad and made a typo.
22:42Thank you!
greggirwin
22:42Happens to us all. :^)
jasongrossman:matrix.org
22:43And as it happens, for my current use-case, finding which values exist is useful even without knowing their positions \o/
22:43But in general it would probably be more idiomatic to use blocks, right, if that's not too vague a question?
greggirwin
22:46Blocks are the most idiomatic compound type/data structure in Red, yes. But the others offer advantages and features of their own. It's all about matching them to the need. Start small and try with each type, see where you run into issues, and ask questions here with your use case as a backdrop. We call it "The Great Red Optimizer" and you'll get lots of wacky ideas sometimes.
jasongrossman:matrix.org
22:47That makes complete sense. Thank you very much!

ldci
05:55@jasongrossman:matrix.org . For map datatype, some examples here: https://github.com/ldci/Red-System/tree/main/Map
jasongrossman:matrix.org
05:59Ooh thank you
ldci
06:09@jasongrossman:matrix.org You’re welcome
bubnenkoff
09:38> https://gist.github.com/cosacam1/0e5702505c92a5e1f34e69e94f264d7e

Thanks! Looks cool!
cosacam1
12:59@bubnenkoff I solved the scroller problem this way:

In the view, I put a background panel (pnlBg) with a foreground panel (pnlFg) inside it.
pnlFg might be vertically smaller, larger or equal than pnlBg.
I also have a vertical scroller (scr) the same height as pnlBg.

pnlFg/pane contains the widgets (fields, buttons, whatever)

Then scr/extra will have the difference in size between both panels.

scr/extra: pnlBg/size/y - pnlFg/size/x

The difference will be negative when pnlFg is larger than pnlBg, that is how much of pnlFg is beyond pnlBg.
(Negative to make easier the math in scroll function below)

Make scroller visible only in that case because it is then when scroller is only needed

scr/visible?: scr/extra < 0

Then I put this scroll function. It moves pnlFg (and all the widgets in it) vertically because the x remains the same.
How much do we move it?
Well, the part of pnlFg that is not visible originally, affected by scroller's data.
When that data is 0.0, pnlFg's top will be aligned to pnlBg's top.
When scroller's data is 1.0 then pnlFg's bottom will be aligned to pnlBg's bottom.
Other values show pnlFg partially.

By the way, I have noticed that if I drag the scroller's thumb (or click the scoller's down arrow) to it's bottom,
scroller's data never gets to 1.0 but 0.91
(I think is Red's bug, sorry I never reported before)
So I force it to 1.0. That behaviour is not present if I scroll using mouse wheel.

So let's try it:
13:01
Red [needs 'view]

scroll: does [
    if scr/data > 0.91 [scr/data: 1.0]
    pnlFg/offset: as-pair pnlFg/offset/x (scr/extra * scr/data)
]
clamp: func [lo value hi] [min max lo value hi] ; a function to keep a value between boundaries

system/view/auto-sync?: yes ; to avoid flickering
view [
    pnlBg: panel blue 200x100 [
        at 10x0
        pnlFg: panel yellow 180x250 [ ; I make pnlFg larger than pnlBg on purpose, and narrower too
            below 
            check "Hi" 
            field hint "type here"
            b: box red 
            button "Press here" [b/color: random 255.255.255]
        ] 
        on-wheel [
            if scr/visible? [
                ;system/view/auto-sync?: yes    uncomment this in case your code disables sync at any time 
                ; next 0.91 is because of the bug (if any) 
                ; I force it to 1.0 in scroll function but then, 
                ; when scrolling via mouse wheel towards the top, it does not scroll 
                ; so I force it back to 1.0 to make it work
                scr/data: clamp 0.0 ((min 0.91 scr/data) + (scr/steps * negate event/picked)) 1.0
                scroll
            ]
        ]
    ]
    space 0x0   ; may the scroller be adyacent to pnlBg
    scr: scroller 20x100 [system/view/auto-sync?: yes     scroll] ; about sync, same as above
    do [scr/extra: pnlBg/size/y - pnlFg/size/y	scr/visible?: scr/extra < 0]
]
13:24@hiiamboris I tried both of your solutions for scrolling. The second one doesn't show the areas. I can't see why
13:42About Red's bug on scrolling, I said before if I drag the scroller's thumb (or click the scoller's down arrow) to it's bottom, scroller's data never gets to 1.0 but 0.91 Well, actually it is only when dragging the thumb. See next example and try to drag the thumb to the right end view [t: text scroller [t/text: to-string face/data]]
hiiamboris
14:26> @hiiamboris I tried both of your solutions for scrolling. The second one doesn't show the areas. I can't see why

@cosacam1
> But base as panel probably doesn't work since D2D merge.

(i.e. it was a dirty hack and not supported anymore)
14:27> About Red's bug on scrolling

It's data + page-size that equals 1
bubnenkoff
14:35I need to change one set-word! to another inside block. I know only it's index. It I tried:
x: [foo: none bar: none baz: none] ; need get: [test: none bar: none baz: none]
change/part x 1 (to-set-word 'test)
probe x

But got an error: *** Script Error: change/part does not allow set-word! for its range argument
gurzgri
14:36> It's data + page-size that equals 1

And therefore scroller shouldn't be confused with slider, with the latter going up to 1 as in view [t: text slider [t/text: to-string face/data]]
bubnenkoff
14:37it seems that it's work:
x: [foo: none bar: none baz: none]
change at  x  1 (to-set-word 'test)
probe x
== [test: none bar: none baz: none]

gurzgri
14:37poke x 1 to set-word! 'test
14:39Think of poke complementing pick, setting a value at given index instead of getting it from there.
bubnenkoff
14:39thanks!
gurzgri
14:40The difference between your change at and poke isn't that big and change at reads nicely, too. But it's two funtions instead of one.
cosacam1
14:43Oh, I see the point. Not the same scroller asslider. However a little confusing. I think data = 1.0 is expected when reaching the bottom. Ok, I can live with that. Thanks both.
hiiamboris
14:44@cosacam1 I've stumbled upon that myself before ;)
toomasv
14:45> (i.e. it was a dirty hack and not supported anymore)

Only second half of this is true. [Docs](https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/view.adoc#base):

> This face type should be used for any custom graphic component implementation.
hiiamboris
14:45I think that means using Draw, not native faces
14:46Found https://github.com/red/red/issues/5051
14:46It can show other bases
toomasv
14:51You mean only Draw is *graphic component*?
hiiamboris
14:52I mean using Draw to create graphic components, like what Spaces are doing (or your table ;).
toomasv
14:58I guess general understanding is that any face in *view* is *graphic*, i.e. has graphic aspect about it, is graphically presented. To narrow this to *drawn base faces* only is really stretching the meaning of *graphic*, IMO. Although in practice you are right and docs are wrong. :)
hiiamboris
15:05I understand the docs as base is used to implement graphic components, but that does not imply that other graphic components can be grouped together in a base for that ;)
15:06Good idea to use pane for caret face by the way.
15:08Although.. maybe not as it could steal focus when clicked.
cosacam1
17:00I've just downloaded Red 0.6.4 of today Sep 9, 2022. How can I know the differences from a previous version?
hiiamboris
17:13https://github.com/red/red/commits/master
cosacam1
17:58so there is where we can see how hard you guys work! congrats!
hiiamboris
cosacam1
20:53My IDE is RedEditor-11 (Notepad++) I always run (interpret) my program with the blue play button, and only when it's already tested I compile it with the other button (the one with a gear). However, I installed today the most recent version of Red and when I use the play button to interpret the code it shows a window telling me that the Console process is still running. I click the Kill button and the message closes. When I press run again, it happens the same. It didn't happen with my previous Red version which was 0.6.4 July 25. Any idea?
hiiamboris
21:03run it from the terminal and look at the output
cosacam1
21:17it runs fine from the console. The question is how do I make Notepad++ to use the previous version of Red?
hiiamboris
21:21maybe some notepad++ users will read this chat
cosacam1
21:22Ok, I gotta go. I will try next week. Have a happy week-end everybody.
greggirwin
22:20@cosacam1 I haven't looked at my NP++ config here, as I rarely fire it up. I did have to reprogram everything in UltraEdit with the change in the Red exes.

koba-yu
05:51Hi, are there any defined / conventional methods to check the code is running under console or compiled executable? I guess I saw some before but cannot remember now...
06:01Ah, system/state/interpreted? maybe?
hiiamboris
06:43I think I was checking system/options/script for none value when compiled.
06:43@dockimbel should know a proper way ;)
koba-yu
06:46@hiiamboris
Thank you. system/state/interpred? seems working so far. I'll keep in mind the way you taught too.
hiiamboris
06:52try to compile:
Red []
probe system/state/interpreted?
probe do [system/state/interpreted?]
koba-yu
08:11@hiiamboris
I see, so interpreted? seems not for my purpose strictly. Thank you!
08:16I have pushed a new repo to GitHub. I appreciate if you have some coding advice or something like that. I want to write another personal blog post for this later.

https://github.com/koba-yu/red-image-viewer
hiiamboris
08:25instead of interpreted, check for attempt [system/console/gui?] for your case
08:25I also suggest scaling the image so it fits the window
08:26also ... button with request-dir (UX wise)
08:27also after a few images it stopped updating the display, apparently got some decoding error and stalled on it (make it recover from errors ;)
08:29also it just crashed my console ;) but this I will deal with myself... interesting, as well as that decoding error
koba-yu
09:00@hiiamboris Thank you, Il’ll check👍
hiiamboris
09:22okay it's an out of memory related crash
09:23basically 5-7 photos is the limit before it reaches 2.2GB ;)
09:35@koba-yu I think that's because you reload all images on every next click
09:36(even though a single image doesn't fit the screen)
koba-yu
09:40@hiiamboris
Thank you, actually I made this app for viewing many small images for my AI related work. So the program not considered deeply to process big image at current commit 😅
I would keep improving!
hiiamboris
09:45:+1:

bubnenkoff
08:39
foo: function[name /extern name] [
	name: to-word name
	prin "inside function:" probe name
]

foo 'fooo

probe name

Should name become available outside foo? I am getting an error: *** Script Error: name has no value

hiiamboris
08:40I think this should raise an invalid spec error. @dockimbel ?
bubnenkoff
08:52How it's correct to say: "word do not become global available" or "word do not binded to global context"?
hiiamboris
08:55"is not bound to the global context" is more to the point, but we'll understand either way
rebolek
09:00Agreed, [name /extern name] should raise an error.
bubnenkoff
09:25I have got a question about my code:
https://gist.github.com/bubnenkoff/8b6e3846f56c8060dc2a9acb3b23dd61

Even on this tiny example I am getting blinking on operation on data adding\removing (copy-paste to red and push add buttons). On bigger data structure the blinking become more annoying and time delays become bigger.

it's error in architecture? and it possible to do it fast, or it's feature of VID? And it's not possible to solve it?
gurzgri
09:26@bubnenkoff Anyways, do yourself a favour and try harder to do without /extern words in functions. Your future debugging self will be grateful … ;^)
bubnenkoff
09:29> @bubnenkoff Anyways, do yourself a favour and try harder to do without /extern words in functions. Your future debugging self will be grateful … ;^)

You mean that I should to prefer func when I there is no any other reason to make all data local?
gurzgri
09:34Re: blinking - Sounds like you‘re relayouting the whole layout instead of adding/modifying/removing only the faces with actual changes.
09:41Re: No, the other way around. Try harder to let functions only work on the „outer world“ thru passed arguments and return values only instead of modifying words from outer contexts in functions. Way harder to avoid unwanted side effects if functions modify „random“ things, and harder to test too. You can not easily test a sinhle function that way and can‘t depend that the outcome of a function is dependend on the arguments only instead of random other application state.
09:43*sinhle = single, *can‘t depend … = can‘t rely on the outcome of s function being dependend …
bubnenkoff
09:46
Re: blinking - Sounds like you‘re relayouting the whole layout instead of adding/modifying/removing only the faces with actual changes.

But in code I am updating data (removing and adding) only to panel (ppp).>
hiiamboris
09:48I suggest instead of assigning a new pane, modify the old one.
gurzgri
10:00This. Another obvious improvement would be having each nesting level in a panel of it's own. That way you can easily get indention for free and have finer control on what is changed / needs to be redrawn. And a panels vertical offset and size could easily be calculated using reactivity then, depending on offset. But the key point really is not creating everything for every change.
10:04append ppp/pane layout/only is the culprit. It re-creates each and every face on every change. You'd be better off creating faces manually with make-face instead of creating a full VID layout spec of the entirety of faces each time something gets added/removed.
hiiamboris
10:06also this ppp/pane: copy [] ;)
10:14on panels, it's a good advice to simplify code management, but changing offsets does seem to cause any flicker: view compose/deep [panel 300x300 [(loop 50 [append [] compose [at (random 270x270) field (random white) 30x30 rate 70 on-time [face/offset: max 0x0 min 270x270 face/offset - 2 + random 3x3]]])]]
gurzgri
10:38No one *said* re-offsetting faces causes the flicker ;)
hiiamboris
10:41sure, just clarifying :)
Boum69
17:09Is it possible to use on Windows a non installed font with VID ? Same question with Rebol please. 😉
hiiamboris
18:01@qtxie might know
rebolek
18:06AFAIK it's not possible
bubnenkoff
18:06hm... save/write map! with #() like:
#(a: 1)

How to write:
a: 1

hiiamboris
18:07convert to block
greggirwin
18:08Native widgets require installed fonts. I think even under R2 they had to be installed in the system, because Rebol still used the OS for drawing, just selecting them into a DC I imagine.
Boum69
18:19Ok , thanks all of you. I've spent a few hours to find a solution. Now, I know I is not possible for the moment unless @qtxie had a solution ?
gurzgri
21:30@bubnenkoff I have put something together along the lines of your key:value editor, see the code at https://gist.github.com/gurzgri/895e8f3f5fe1caf16279725138567389
* using panels there for easier implementation of nesting levels / indention
* dynamically created faces with make-face
* still some flickering, but limited to the tree level just edited (probably related to using OS widgets)
* added vertical / horizontal scrolling with scrollers and by mouse wheel
* added a load-from block / save-into block mechanism
Have fun studying (for more improvements probably ask @hiiamboris)!
hiiamboris
21:38> "Give @bubnenkoff something to study. :^)"

☻
21:38Great as always, @gurzgri :clap:
greggirwin
22:19Indeed. Very nice @gurzgri. I get errors on the save button, and hint for those would be helpful. :^)
gurzgri
22:47Thanks to both of you. Argh, it's always these simple last minute name changes ... fixed. Re: Hints - Yes indeed, thanks for the hint ;)
22:49My idiom of the day btw is add silver random coal, I'm sure I never picked a random pale color that way before :)
22:54@hiiamboris How to let root/offset react on the two scroller's data instead of setting it thru their on-change actors, any idea? Didn't managed to do so.

ldci
02:36@Boum69. For fonts testing: https://github.com/ldci/Red-System/tree/main/Fonts
Boum69
03:26Good morning ; ) and thank you @ldci .
hiiamboris
07:22> @hiiamboris How to let root/offset react on the two scroller's data instead of setting it thru their on-change actors, any idea? Didn't managed to do so.

I just replaced on-change with react in your code and it works for me @gurzgri
gurzgri
07:54Oh, thanks man! This is interesting, I‘ve tried adding it as react later to the root face (because it seemed to make more sense over there too me, it‘s root reacting to the scrollers). Will have a deeper look this evening.
hiiamboris
07:56Objects must exist at react's block parsing time
gurzgri
08:21Makes sense. I assumed later to deal with that since it didn‘t complain.
hiiamboris
08:23later just skips initial reaction evaluation
08:24But it retrieves all reactive sources at parsing time anyway
bubnenkoff
09:06
mmm: #(
    test: [
        foo: function [value] [
            print ["value: " value]
        ]
    ]

    )

mmm/test/foo 'hello

I am trying to call function foo what I am missing?
09:08> @bubnenkoff I have put something together along the lines of your key:value editor, see the code at https://gist.github.com/gurzgri/895e8f3f5fe1caf16279725138567389
> * using panels there for easier implementation of nesting levels / indention
> * dynamically created faces with make-face
> * still some flickering, but limited to the tree level just edited (probably related to using OS widgets)
> * added vertical / horizontal scrolling with scrollers and by mouse wheel
> * added a load-from block / save-into block mechanism
> Have fun studying (for more improvements probably ask @hiiamboris)!

Wow!!! Thanks! Looks perfect!
hiiamboris
09:12inspect your block, values of what types do you have there?
bubnenkoff
09:15> inspect your block, values of what types do you have there?

>> type? mmm/test/foo
== word!
rebolek
09:18> what I am missing?

You are missing the basic rule of Redbol languages - everything is data until it's evaluated. Try length? mmm/test. I guess you expect it to be 2 but you'll be surprised that it's 4. Why is that? Because the block! assigned to testwasn't evaluated.
dockimbel
09:27> I am trying to call function foo what I am missing?

There is no "function foo", it does not exist, that's why you can't call it.
bubnenkoff
09:28So I should reduce mmm/test to be able to call foo ?
rebolek
09:30Yes, you need to reduce, but let's ask first, why do you have such structure? Function in a block in a map? Just because it's possible doesn't mean you should do it.
bubnenkoff
09:33@rebolek because I am writing rules for processing data and every I put every possible operation on data in such structure
09:36
mmm: #(
    test: [
        foo: function  [value] [
            print ["value: " value]
        ]
    ]

    )

reduce mmm/test foo "hello"

this works
rebolek
09:37Yes, but is this structure really the best structure for the task?
bubnenkoff
09:41The problem of code above that foo become available in global context. Is there any way to prevent it.
@rebolek one moment I will explain what I am doing on better example
rebolek
09:42> The problem of code above that foo become available in global context. Is there any way to prevent it.

Of course. Don't use function in a block in a map, use a function in a context.
bubnenkoff
09:44@rebolek Example:
notifications_section: #(
    KBKCode: [ ; tag for checking
            action: function [value] [ 
                x: none 
                result: rejoin parse value [collect some [ digit | keep skip ] ] ; 
                if not empty? result [x: result]
                return x
            ] 
            dist: 'KBKCode_letter ; tag for saving result 
        ]

)

The idea is next. Some sections have tags that require some manipulation and saving result to other tag.
hiiamboris
09:47> Is there any way to prevent it.

Walk backwards. Write down how the resulting block should look like, then figure out what to do with the source block to achieve that.
bubnenkoff
10:00> > The problem of code above that foo become available in global context. Is there any way to prevent it.
>
> Of course. Don't use function in a block in a map, use a function in a context.

your are suggesting structure like:
mmm:  [
    test: context [
        foo: function  [value] [
            print ["value: " value]
        ]
      ]
     ]
rebolek
10:19for example
bubnenkoff
10:34> In Rebol2 and Red, contexts can be extended only by cloning operation (make ), in Rebol3, object can be extended using series actions. I was not for that change, as it was blurring the lines between objects and series (not even mentioning maps). I personnaly had no need for expandable objects, just maybe for some specific cases, where reconstructing the whole objects with the right binding would have been too expensive/complex. So I was in favor of just an extend native, which would allow extending objects in-place (and would work only on objects, so avoiding confusion with series). In Red, I plan to add extend, though, it would probably make objects access path compilation much less efficient a priori, so I need to find a way to avoid the speed penalty for that first.

Do I understand correctly that nothing has changed since then and you can only create a fill object at creation?
hiiamboris
bubnenkoff
12:32
complex-obj: make object! [
    notifications_section: [
        tag1: [
                    action: function [value] [  print ["some operation: " value ] ] 
                    dist: 'KBKCode_letter
                
        ]

    ]
]

Can't understand to make tag1/action binded to context of object.
this code is make action is available from global context:
reduce complex-obj/notifications_section/tag1 action "hello"

hiiamboris
12:36same as this:
>> o: object [ [x: 1] ]
== make object! []    ;) oh look! no X!
bubnenkoff
12:50> same as this:
> 
> >> o: object [ [x: 1] ]
> == make object! []    ;) oh look! no X!
>


notifications_section and tag1 should also be objects in my example?
12:57
complex-obj: object [
    notifications_section: object [
        tag1: object [
                    action: function [value] [  print ["some operation: " value ] ] 
                    dist: 'KBKCode_letter
                
        ]

    ]
]

aaa: reduce complex-obj
bbb: reduce aaa/notifications_section
ccc: reduce bbb/tag1
ccc/action "hello"


Could this reduce chain be simplified?
hiiamboris
12:58Like I said:
> Walk backwards. Write down how the resulting block should look like, then figure out what to do with the source block to achieve that.
12:59You have at this moment no idea what you're even doing. Just randomly adding stuff.
13:01You're not an [infinite monkey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem), you cannot afford billions of years for this task ;)
bubnenkoff
13:04This moment I understand) But I have doubt about how result block should look like, because I need to simplify it's creation and stay it's isolate
hiiamboris
13:45Always start simple, and only extend it when there's no other way
greggirwin
17:01@bubnenkoff to @hiiamboris' point, there is a big risk in trying advanced things, which you can't solve yourself, and getting help here. We all do want to help, but if you don't take the time to *really* understand things, you may end up in a situation where you can't maintain the code you have because you don't understand it.

I imagine most of us will agree that Boris' advice to "start small" is good. Don't just use your existing code to understand. Use generic bits. Get to really understand blocks, objects, maps, and evaluation, including what context words are bound (set) to.
cosacam1
17:50@bubnenkoff Do you understand Object Oriented Programming? In Rebol/Red or other language? If not, we can help.
bubnenkoff
18:23@greggirwin thanks, I will try)
@cosacam1 yes, I understand, but I think that OOP in Red is significantly difference from other langues
cosacam1
19:14Not too much. Basically, there are no classes and instances, only objects. They have attributes and methods i.e. variables ,(actually words) and functions. Use those vars and functions asv regular ones just remembering they are members of (bibded to) the object.
19:27Typo: Not bibded but binded
19:54Objects can be made with make object! or copied from other object as in john-alias: copy john where every change in john will be reflected in john-alias. Finally objects can inherit attributes and methods from other object or objects (multiple inheritance) as in other-person: make proto-person

bubnenkoff
09:32What is the difference between language and set of functions like foo bar baz? Why foo bar baz not yet a language?
hiiamboris
09:40Who said it's not? ☻
bubnenkoff
10:28@hiiamboris they are? Really?
hiiamboris
10:40Sure
10:40There exists a language without words, just spaces, new-lines, tabs, etc.
10:41foo bar baz is already an excessive vocabulary. Just foo and space is enough.
10:42If you can describe data with that, it's a language.
10:42You can communicate using it.
10:42With PC or humans (if they're nerdy enough).
bubnenkoff
10:49But when people are write such functions they are not saying that they are wrote own language
hiiamboris
10:53Perhaps because it was not their intention to communicate with these functions? ;)
bubnenkoff
11:04But then when language become DSL? When foo bar baz solve only domain specific task?
hiiamboris
13:39If it's not general purpose, it's domain specific
greggirwin
18:10It's a gradient between functions/libraries and languages. Fluent interface is a modern term as well. We can say that add/subtract/... are domain specific, because they can behave differently given their arguments, but that's for the language to decide, and also pulls polymorphism into the discussion.

For me, it's less "language" if it always takes the same set of arguments, and those arguments are positional or strictly named. Language allows more flexibility in how to express things and define new extensions to it.
cosacam1
22:23So sql, html, prolog, cobol, gml aka game maker language are DSL, right?
greggirwin
22:46That changes the aspect to general purpose versus domain specific. Also domains versus paradigms. e.g. prolog is a logic language by paradigm, but general purpose at the same time.

bubnenkoff
08:38Oh... after 2 years I decided to try understand binding again:
users: [foo bar baz]
names: ["Piter" "Mike" "Jow"]

foreach u users [
	 bind users object compose [(to-set-word u) (take names) ]
]
reduce users

And it seems that it's works:
>> reduce users
== ["Piter" "Mike" "Jow"]
08:43Am I right understand meaning of word require rebinding. Because I tried to change names and print them with reduce users and got old results
hiiamboris
08:54What exactly have you tried?
bubnenkoff
09:07I have added after code above next code:
names: ["Apple" "Banana" "Carrot"]

reduce users


I expect: ["Apple" "Banana" "Carrot"] as output but got: == ["Piter" "Mike" "Jow"]
hiiamboris
09:17
>> block: [1 + 1 2 * 2]
== [1 + 1 2 * 2]
>> result: reduce block
== [2 4]
>> block: [2 + 2 3 * 3]
== [2 + 2 3 * 3]
>> result   ;) do you expect it to be [4 9] ?
bubnenkoff
09:26result is still point to block: [1 + 1 2 * 2] here.
But I still can't understand difference between simple setting word with word: and binding. It seems that they are do same things
hiiamboris
09:26My example is no essentially different than yours.
09:26You've created an object from values in a block.
09:26Then created a new block with new values.
09:27What does the object have to do with these?
09:28> result is still point to block: [1 + 1 2 * 2] here.

Completely wrong btw
09:37
>> change block 5
== [+ 1 2 * 2]
>> block
== [5 + 1 2 * 2]
>> result
== should be [6 4] you say?
bubnenkoff
09:47change is changing original, so 7 9 (and I checked in console)
09:48
>> :block
== [2 + 2 3 * 3]
>> 
>> change block 5
== [+ 2 3 * 3]
>> 
>> :block
== [5 + 2 3 * 3]
>> reduce block
== [7 9]

hiiamboris
09:48But you're cheating by reducing it *again*
09:49
>> block: [2 + 2 3 * 3]
== [2 + 2 3 * 3]
>> result: reduce block
== [4 9]
>> change block 5
== [+ 2 3 * 3]
>> result
== will it be [7 9] ?
melcepstrum
10:46I need help. How to change a red value in a red-system code
10:51I have something like this
Red []

#system [
	pv: declare float-ptr!
]

c: routine [ vec [vector!] ] [
	pv: as float-ptr! vector/rs-head vec
]

p: make reactor! [
	v: make vector! [1.0 2.0 3.0] 
	i: 1
	f: 0.1 
	s: "red"
]

print p
c p/v 
#system [
	pv/1: 5.0
]
print p

10:57now I want to change int, float and string values from red-system side
hiiamboris
11:00for string look in datatypes/string.reds for some function that works for you
11:01it's encoded using one of 1,2 or 4-byte encodings (in your case 1-byte)
11:02for int/float, these are not series, so you're gonna change the object instead
11:03similarly, look for a function in datatypes/object.reds (or context.reds)
melcepstrum
11:49thanks. I think it's too hard for me :) I was hoping for an example code ;)
hiiamboris
11:51let's start with what do you want to achieve with this? ;)
melcepstrum
12:00i'm writing a small app that do some sound processing
hiiamboris
12:01and why does it need access to anything other than vectors?
melcepstrum
12:02to signal red when buffer is ready
hiiamboris
12:04simplest thing would be:
ready?: routine [return: [logic!]] [
    (returns some readiness flag)
]
melcepstrum
12:04also to get device-name from portaudio and display that in gui
12:06ok, but i have to set that flag in red-system
hiiamboris
12:06yes of course
melcepstrum
12:06and routine is called in red
hiiamboris
12:07but it will return Red logic! value
12:07routines automatically convert (box) scalars into Red datatypes
melcepstrum
12:08i think it won't work for me
hiiamboris
12:08why?
melcepstrum
12:09sound is processed in red-system function
hiiamboris
12:10I understand that
12:10why can't it process it and return readiness flag as Red logic value?
12:11and for device name, don't mess with the objects, just return the string:
get-device-name: routine [return: [string!]] [
    devname: ... get the name from port-audio ...
    string/load devname length? devname UTF-8
]
melcepstrum
12:11ok thanks
hiiamboris
12:13example code:
get-device-name: routine [return: [string!] /local devname [c-string!]] [
    devname: "test-name"
    string/load devname length? devname UTF-8
]
probe get-device-name
melcepstrum
12:15thanks :)
12:16and the sound processing loop is a callback in red system
hiiamboris
12:16well in your Red code you will have to *do something* to test the flag anyway, so call a routine to check the flag, which is set from the R/S callback
melcepstrum
12:18can't this be triggered from the r/s side ?
hiiamboris
12:20it can, with more work, but what's the point?
melcepstrum
12:23i had an idea that it will trigger an event
hiiamboris
12:26ok let me cook smth up
12:51
Red []

r: reactor [red-flag: off]
react/later [print ["changed to:" r/red-flag]]

#system [
	marked-word: declare red-word!
]

mark: routine [word [word!]] [
	copy-cell as cell! word as cell! marked-word
]

flip: routine [/local logic [red-logic!]] [
	logic: as red-logic! _context/get marked-word marked-word/ctx
	logic/value: not logic/value
	_context/set marked-word as red-value! logic
]

mark in r 'red-flag
flip
flip
flip
print "finished"
melcepstrum
12:59thanks :) that's very helpful
hiiamboris
13:01you're welcome

cosacam1
07:11Hi. I've been using Notepad++ now I'm moving to VSCode for the first time. I want to install Red plugin for VScode. I go to https://github.com/red/VScode-extension and it says there I must download the Red binaries to a local folder (I did it), then set the red.redDir to it. Where do I do that? Remember, first time in VSCode. Thanks
riprwwa
08:46You can go to File / Preferences / Settings, where you will be able see a long list of settings. Then either type "red." in the small search bar at the top of that window to filter them down, or expand the category tree in the settings window and look under Extensions for a node called "Red".
cosacam1
09:25What do you suggest? To use IntelliSense or not? What is it good for?
09:36I already learnt about IntelliSense. I'll use it. Ok Thank you very much @riprwwa
09:51
Red [needs 'view]

view [button "Hi" [print "Hola mundo"]]
09:53I wrote that little program to test VSCode. Run it. Doesn't show a window with a button but prints Hola mundo in the console instead, at the bottom of VSCode. Why?
10:03Ok, the reason is I previously wrote Red [] print "Hola mundo" and run it ok, then in same file I wrote the code above but didn't save it (in Notepad++ when you run it you save it automatically) so vscode was running the previous version. Now I save it, run it and it says view has no value. Maybe I miss-configured the extension. Here it is
10:07[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/xJWh/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/xJWh/image.png)
10:08What do you think?
10:22[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/AsFe/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/AsFe/image.png)
10:22As you see, the paths are ok
riprwwa
10:24Well... I'm going to assume the extension is wrongly trying to run that script using the red executable, instead of the red-view one.

Actually I can see it's running using red-.....exe instead of red-view-.....exe.

If you do CTRL+SHIFT+P in VSCode you will see all commands. Type "red", you should see something like "Red: Show all Red commands", and if you do that you will see there is another command there, "Run Current Script in GUI Console" - when I invoked that it worked.

There is another shortcut in VSCode: CTRL+K then CTRL+S. This shows you all keyboard shortcuts. Again, you can filter them by typing "red" or "gui" - that will show you CTRL+F6 runs your script using the GUI console.
cosacam1
10:33Yes, it works with Ctrl F6. Thanks again

ldci
14:11Question: I’ve s string of bits o: {010110111011001111110110} and I want a binary string but without changing the content s: #{010110111011001111110110}
hiiamboris
14:17use debase
14:19but it looks broken
14:19ah, it just expects integer number of bytes
ldci
14:20@hiiamboris Thanks:)

bubnenkoff
15:03Red have datatype: dbl-quote. I need to extend it:
dbl-quote: union dbl-quote {"}

But I am getting an error: Error: union does not allow char! for its set1 argument
15:04Would it be correct to to-string dbl-quote ?
hiiamboris
bubnenkoff
15:07What problem I am trying to solve:
remove-quotes: function [str][
    ; parse dst: copy str [ ; uncomment if modification of original do not required
    parse dst: str [ ; 
        p-st: opt dbl-quote
        some [not dbl-quote skip]
        p-end: dbl-quote end
        (if p-st/1 = dbl-quote [remove p-end remove p-st])
    ]
    dst
]

dbl-quote: union to-string dbl-quote {"}

str: {"Apple Corp" some text}

remove-quotes str 
print str
hiiamboris
15:08have you tried ? on it?
bubnenkoff
15:09m... it seems that I did string not union {""}
hiiamboris
15:10on dbl-quote
bubnenkoff
15:10Yes I tried. It's a char
hiiamboris
15:11so how is it a datatype?
bubnenkoff
15:11it's a char!
hiiamboris
15:12okay, and what result do you expect from such union?
bubnenkoff
15:14And what I should to do in case above? To try to create unions? Or I am on wrong way?
hiiamboris
15:15the only wrong about your way is not understanding what you want :)
15:15so I'm asking you, what value do you want to get so it will work in Parse?
15:16try to write it literally, then if that works, construct it programmaticaly
bubnenkoff
15:19> so I'm asking you, what value do you want to get so it will work in Parse?

Right question
15:33Am I right?
html-quote: charset {"}
dbl-quote: union html-quote charset dbl-quote
hiiamboris
15:40Do you understand what charset is and how parse will apply it to your input?
15:45In other words, what are the examples of input that charset will and will not match?
bubnenkoff
15:45Think yes, it's make bit-set.I tried to test:
special: charset {test}
parse {test} [some special]
== true
15:46now test is bitset
hiiamboris
15:51how do you explain this
>> parse {ttt} [some special]
== true
bubnenkoff
16:07Egh... it find one or some letters from bit-set that I created. So I wrote wrong code
hiiamboris
16:14yes, you only need to match " and nothing else
bubnenkoff
16:23It seems that I do not need to use unions because it not for my task.
I should write else condition like: p-st: opt [dbl-quote | {"}]
hiiamboris
16:24:clap:
bubnenkoff
16:25thanks)
greggirwin
17:36Your confusion seems to have stemmed from not understanding that chars are single values, bitsets are multiple values (e.g. made from multiple chars in this context) with no order and no duplication, while strings are an *ordered* set of chars which can contain duplicates because they differ in their position.

You can create a bitset from a string, but it's a lossy operation because you throw away the ordering.
>> make bitset! #"A"
== make bitset! #{000000000000000040}
>> make bitset! #"a"
== make bitset! #{00000000000000000000000040}
>> make bitset! "Aa"
== make bitset! #{00000000000000004000000040}
>> make bitset! "AaAAAAaaAAaaaaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaaAa"
== make bitset! #{00000000000000004000000040}
bubnenkoff
17:48Gregg, big thanks for example!
17:48I remember that scroll is unfinished, but is it possible to get it work inside panel (or it should be outside?)?
view [
	size 500x400
	panel [
		field 
		field 
		field 
		field 
		field 
		field 
		field  return
		scroller 470
	]
]
greggirwin
17:52Not implemented yet. Came up [here](https://gitter.im/red/red/gui-branch?at=63258fae7ccf6b6d45dc52d8) recently.
luce80
18:15Also look at [this](https://gist.github.com/luce80/55bfd71f68716d6e996effa9b99f4a1e)
18:33I am trying to ping @qtxie to fully implement the "nicer" version ;)
Oldes
18:42@bubnenkoff I must recomend you to first decode all html entities before processing the input!
18:44I have a codec for it in Rebol.. which you may port to Red if you wish https://github.com/Oldes/Rebol3/blob/master/src/mezz/codec-html-entities.reb
greggirwin
18:46Good advice @Oldes.
hiiamboris
18:47your list might be a bit short @Oldes ;)
https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/named-characters.html
bubnenkoff
19:06@Oldes Hi! Thanks!

toomasv
08:44@bubnenkoff 
view [
    below 
    panel 400x25 [
        origin 0x0 
        pan: panel [origin 0x0 field "1" field "2" field "3" field "4" field "5" field "6" field "7"]
    ] 
    scroller 400 on-created [
        face/selected: 100% * face/size/x / pan/size/x 
        diff: face/size/x - pan/size/x
    ] [pan/offset/x: max diff min 0 to integer! pan/size/x * -1 * face/data]
]
bubnenkoff
13:59Perfect! Thanks!
toomasv
19:40You are welcome! Did you understand, what and why?

bubnenkoff
05:11@toomasv yes, I understood your are calculation pan offset during scroll moving
rebolek
07:43Re HTML entities. My CASTR package comes with full list of them (and converter also :) https://gitlab.com/rebolek/castr/-/blob/master/entities

bubnenkoff
08:47Hi! I am back to panel problem, I forgot some syntax:
p: [panel []]
view [ do p]

it's not working. I want to declare panel outside view
ldci
09:20@bubnenkoff Try with make face!
bubnenkoff
09:25@ldci ok thanks,
But what I am missing here:
view  [ p: panel blue [] button [ p/color: red] ]

why color do not change? I should use react to get it work?
hiiamboris
09:30It's a bug. Report it.
ldci
09:35It’s running for me :Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 24-Sep-2022/9:39:31+02:00 commit #487881e
hiiamboris
09:43Confirmed, regressed between Sep 28 and Sep 30
bubnenkoff
09:45heh) I really spend one hour thinking about what I am forgot again)
ldci
09:45@hiiamboris Thanks :)
bubnenkoff
09:50@hiiamboris done https://github.com/red/red/issues/5222
hiiamboris
09:53:+1:
bubnenkoff
09:58> @bubnenkoff Try with make face!

p: [panel []]
view [make-face p]

error: Error: VID - invalid syntax at: [make-face p]
hiiamboris
10:00You should perhaps re-read what is visual inteface dialect and how it's different from normal Red instead of doing random stuff
ldci
10:07
p: make face! [
	type: 'panel offset: 0x0 size: 300x200 color: silver
]
win: layout []
append win/pane p
view win

toomasv
11:09Or
p: [panel []]
view p
ldci
11:15@toomasv Fine
bubnenkoff
11:19> Or
> 
> p: [panel []]
> view p
>


Heh, I tried a lot of variants because I remember that it should be very simple, but not this) thanks)
luce80
18:05I'd like to make a widget that is made as a group of 3 different styles , how can I accomplish that ? Should I use panel or base as template ?
hiiamboris
18:13for native widgets, panel
18:17you can again use my scrollpanel style as a point of reference
cosacam1
22:21hi everyone, long time away from here, I've been very busy. How can I sync two text-list so when I scroll in one of them the other-one scrolls too. I mean using any means to scroll (scroller, wheel, arrow keys, whatever) I suppose it's related to events, but how can I get to each text-list's scroller so I can use the scroller's data. Thanks in advance
hiiamboris
22:21only using R/S
cosacam1
22:21ouch
22:22that makes me compile every time I test my code
22:23btw, has compiling improved it's performance?
hiiamboris
22:23you don't have to compile often if you insert R/S code into your console itself
22:23> btw, has compiling improved it's performance?

no it hasn't, but devmode (-c) was always fine, <1 sec
cosacam1
22:26do you mean I can put some R/S code in my program and run it w/o compiling some times? I don't understand
22:39what I've done so far is to select corresponding items in both text-lists
22:42
view [
    t1: text-list data [] [t2/selected: t1/selected]  
    t2: text-list data [] [t1/selected: t2/selected] 
    return 
    button "fill" [
        loop 40 [
            append t1/data copy random "qwertyuiop" 
            append t2/data copy random "1234567890"
        ]
]
22:43sorry, it needs one more bracket
22:44
view [
    t1: text-list data [] [t2/selected: t1/selected]  
    t2: text-list data [] [t1/selected: t2/selected] 
    return 
    button "fill" [
        loop 40 [
            append t1/data copy random "qwertyuiop" 
            append t2/data copy random "1234567890"
        ]
    ]
]

ldci
05:02@cosacam1 Good approach :)

ldci
06:22How to easily transform Red/System c-string! to a Red string?
hiiamboris
08:26string/load str length? str UTF-8
ldci
08:36@hiiamboris Thanks a lot

bubnenkoff
09:09Heh, I wrote buggy code and got StackOverflow. Do not know should it be marked as a bug?
a: #(a: 1)
f: function[] [
	probe f
]
f
09:18And the second moment, it seems that there is regression. function have func signature:
b: 1
f: function[] [
	print b
]
f

is printing 1 instead of none:
>> :f
== func [][
    print b
]

hiiamboris
09:19stack overflow is expected from that in all languages I know
09:20why would it print none?
bubnenkoff
09:22Oh... it seems that I am wrong
cosacam1
12:34Hi. How can I set-focus to a field and make the caret be at the end of its text, not at the begining. Also, how to make all its text to be selected (blue) when focused. Thanks
hiiamboris
12:56view [f: field "text" button [set-focus f f/selected: 1x4]]
12:59view [f: field "text" button [set-focus f f/selected: 5x5]] for no selection (but it's a hack)
cosacam1
13:28Thanks. I tried also "textos" and 2x4. It selected from the second to the fourth chars. Clever Red. Thanks again @hiiamboris
13:44I think set-focus with /all and /part refinements would be nice applicable to field, area and rtf
hiiamboris
14:13just write your own function for that
cosacam1
15:37Yeap, as soon as I have electricity

luce80
14:00How can I scale something in draw block **without** scaling the pen ? I tried with matrix, scale and transform with and without 'pen with no effect. P.S.: transform perforns scaling after translation, is it by-design ?
hiiamboris
14:02scaling applies to everything
14:02just update line-width as well
luce80
14:19And what is the difference between scale and scale 'pen ?
hiiamboris
14:34I would assume that it applies to bitmap/gradient pens
14:35I agree documentation is vague
14:35Let's ask @dockimbel
dockimbel
15:11Should be for scaling gradient and pattern pens and fill-pens. I agree that the documentation could be more accurate about that. @qtxie can confirm.
luce80
15:17And how can I "counteract" a not unform scaling like scale 20 10 ?
hiiamboris
15:23I think you can't. Neither this, nor skew.
15:24> transform perforns scaling after translation, is it by-design ?

By the way I had the same questions when I read the docs. Transformations order is not documented.
dockimbel
17:24@qtxie ^--- please document that.
qtxie
23:48> How can I scale something in draw block **without** scaling the pen ? I tried with matrix, scale and transform with and without 'pen with no effect. P.S.: transform perforns scaling after translation, is it by-design ?

transform applies rotate, scale and translate in order.

view [
	base 300x300 draw [
		transform 10 2 1.5 10x10
		box 100x100 150x150
	]
	base 300x300 draw [
		rotate 10 scale 2 1.5 translate 10x10
		box 100x100 150x150
	]
]
23:53> And what is the difference between scale and scale 'pen ?

If it's a pure color pen, any transforms on it has no effect. You can see the effect only if scale 'pen applies to bitmap/gradient pens.

luce80
08:40Ok, transform applies **transformation matrix multiplications** in that order.

bubnenkoff
13:46What I missing in next algorithm?
data-pointer: [
		purchaseNumber: none
		isGOZ: none
		docPublishDate: none
		responsibleOrg_inn: none
		lots: [
			mytag: none
			lot: [
				lotNumber: none
				KBKCode: none
				lotMaxPrice: none
				customers: [
					customer: [
						customer_regNum: none
						customer_fullName: none
					]

                    users: [
						user_regNum: none
						user_fullName: none
					]
					
				]
				foo: [a: none]
				objects: [
					bar: none
					object: [
						OKPD_code: none
						OKPD_name: none	
					]
					
				]		
			]
		]

]


get-nesting-levels-as-map-list: function [] [
	level: 0
    tags-before: 0
    nested?: false
	mmm: copy #()
    parent-name: none
	walk: function[data-pointer /extern level tags-before parent-name] [
		foreach [data-name data-value] data-pointer [
            if none? parent-name [ parent-name: 'root] ; 
            
			either block? data-value  [
                mmm/(data-name): copy make map! compose [node-level: (level) tags-before: (tags-before) parent: (parent-name)  ]
				level: level + 1
				 
                if (level > mmm/(data-name)/node-level) [
					print ["data-name:" data-name "parent-name:" parent-name]
					mmm/(data-name)/parent: parent-name
					parent-name: to-word data-name
                ]

                mmm/(data-name)/node-level: level

                walk data-value ; 

                level: level - 1

			] [
                
                tags-before: tags-before + 2 ; key and value
       
			]
             
		]
	]

	walk data-pointer

	return mmm 
]

probe get-nesting-levels-as-map-list


it's output:
data-name: lots parent-name: root
data-name: lot parent-name: lots
data-name: customers parent-name: lot
data-name: customer parent-name: customers
data-name: users parent-name: customer ; wrong parent should be: customers
data-name: foo parent-name: users   ; wrong parent should be: lot
data-name: objects parent-name: foo   ; wrong parent should be: lot
data-name: object parent-name: objects


Where am I wrong?
hiiamboris
13:52Hard to say. Use probe or trace to find the point where first value becomes wrong, walk backwards from that.

bubnenkoff
12:02Why I can't create next char?
>>  #"^"
*** Syntax Error: (line 2) invalid char at #"^"
*** Where: case
*** Near : :delimiter-lex
*** Stack: load
Oldes
12:08@bubnenkoff because ^ is the escape char... you must use: #"^^"
bubnenkoff
12:09thanks!
greggirwin
18:53@bubnenkoff remember to check docs: https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/datatypes/char.adoc They'll help a lot.

cosacam1
17:23hi guys take a look at this code
17:24a: context [
info: make map! [
name "ana"
age 10
]
m2i: func [m][info/name: m/name info/age: m/age]
]

b: copy a
c: copy a
probe a
b/m2i copy make map! [name "berta" age 15]
probe b
probe a
c/m2i copy make map! [name "carlos" age 20]
probe c
probe b
probe a


view [
t: text-list data []
button "Fill list" [
append t/data b/info/name
append t/data b/info
append t/data c/info/name
append t/data c/info
]
button "Show selected" [
probe t/data/(2 * t/selected)
]
]
`
17:38I'm trying to append objects to the text-list data so I can use the selected object's properties even to save them in a json file. I know I can append the whole object, but in that case its methods would be appended and saved too, which I don't need, only its properties. That's why I use a map to hold the object's properties. I'm creating different copies of the prototype object however every new object overrides the previous ones although I'm using copy. Why? Thanks.
17:55"override or overwrite", I don't know what's the best word to express what I mean in English. Sorry
hiiamboris
17:56Can you format the code?
cosacam1
18:04I'll try.
18:04Red [needs 'view]

a: context [
info: make map! [
name "ana"
age 10
]
m2i: func [m][info/name: m/name info/age: m/age]
]

b: copy a
c: copy a
probe a
b/m2i copy make map! [name "berta" age 15]
probe b
probe a
c/m2i copy make map! [name "carlos" age 20]
probe c
probe b
probe a


view [
t: text-list data []
button "Fill list" [
append t/data b/info/name
append t/data b/info
append t/data c/info/name
append t/data c/info
]
button "Show selected" [
probe t/data/(2 * t/selected)
]
]
`
hiiamboris
18:04shift+enter
cosacam1
18:04oops. I did ctrl enter
18:05
Red [needs 'view]

a: context [
    info: make map! [
        name "ana"
        age 10
    ]
    m2i: func [m][info/name: m/name info/age: m/age]
]

b: copy a
c: copy a
probe a
b/m2i copy make map! [name "berta" age 15]
probe b
probe a
c/m2i copy make map! [name "carlos" age 20]
probe c
probe b
probe a


view [
    t: text-list data []
    button "Fill list" [
        append t/data b/info/name
        append t/data b/info 
        append t/data c/info/name 
        append t/data c/info 
    ] 
    button "Show selected" [
        probe t/data/(2 * t/selected)
    ]
]
18:05voila!
hiiamboris
18:06:clap:
18:06tried copy/deep a?
18:07copy has some weird semantics, making a shallow copy + functions + maybe smth else
cosacam1
18:09copy/deep gave me same result. do you want to see the output?
hiiamboris
18:09no, I'll test here
cosacam1
18:10thanks anyway. someone else has any idea?
hiiamboris
18:12
b: copy/deep a b/info: copy/deep b/info
c: copy/deep a c/info: copy/deep c/info

solves it
18:13so this is yet another quirk in maps
18:13maybe you should just use block instead of map?
18:14or replace the whole map?
18:15https://github.com/red/red/issues/3218
18:15https://github.com/red/red/issues/2167

toomasv
17:42Has such error appeared before? 
*** Script Error: path element > only < does not apply to function! type
*** Where: eval-path

What does it mean?
I have function with refinement /only typ [word!], and I get this error in compiled script on invocation of the function. No error when interpreted.
Here is signature of the function:
set-col-type: function [face [object!] event [event! integer!] /only typ [word!]][...
greggirwin
17:51Some path evaluation changes were made not long ago, mostly related to objects. Need to test on an old compiler, say from August, to see if it occurs there.
toomasv
18:06Tried both with latest and with 30-May-2022/9:33:18+02:00 commit #e633c9a. Same for both.
greggirwin
18:13Hmmm. No error here.
18:18Ah, failing silently here it seems.
18:24Nope, I was wrong, it seems fine.
18:26Compiling with redc.exe from 20-Oct-2022.
18:26Looks like something deeper is at play.
toomasv
19:06Yeah, when I remove this invocation, I get next one: *** Script Error: path element > with < does not apply to function! type about next function.
luce80
19:09How can I make form keep the number of decimals I want ? that is instead of:
>> form 10.0
== "10.0"

this:
>> form-or-other-func 10.0
== "10.00" ; or "10.000"

instead of:
>> form 0.000001
== "1.0e-6"

this:
>> form-or-other-func 0.000001
== "0.000001"

Can you suggest a simple function ?
ldci
19:12Use round/to before form
hiiamboris
19:15Float formatting and simple can not belong to the same sentence ;)
greggirwin
19:15@ldci that won't pad zeros on the right. Someday we'll get format as standard. In the meantime, @luce80, you'll have to use the experimental formatting work from me or @hiiamboris.
hiiamboris
19:17lvl1: https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-common/src/branch/master/format-number.red
lvl2: https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-common/src/branch/master/format-readable.red
lvl3: https://github.com/red/red/pull/5069
luce80
19:21lvl1 is very nice !
hiiamboris
19:23but has biggest number of edge cases ;)
luce80
19:33Now how can I convert 0.01 to 2 and 0.001 to 3 ?
hiiamboris
19:49you already have it in lvl2

luce80
19:10lvl0: (no edge cases considered ;) )
pad-decimals: func [
	"Pad FORMed number decimals to given precision"
	num [integer! float!] precision [float!]
	] [
	num: form (round/to num precision) + (precision * 0.1)
	copy/part num (length? num) - 1
]
hiiamboris
19:38but it doesn't solve your own task:
>> pad-decimals 1e-6 1e-6
== "1.1e-"
luce80
19:40and what about this ? :
>> pad-decimals 10.0 1.0
== "10."

Did I say no edge cases considered ? In fact I do not think I will use it, too low level ;)
ne1uno
19:50https://gist.github.com/toomasv/006aaa95a0da02844916451fce8a6fcf#file-form-to-red I think it needs a fix after more recent changes, head pad ...
19:51or maybe return head number
greggirwin
20:30:point_up: [this](https://gitter.im/red/help?at=63617042aa210536d63b9622) :^)

toomasv
06:38@ne1uno Thanks, changed! ... Although ?? pad still claims return: [string!] "Modified input string at head".
ne1uno
13:46@toomasv, could be that find is what changed?
bubnenkoff
15:54Could anybody to compile next app with -r flag and do click on start and start2 ten times

https://gist.githubusercontent.com/bubnenkoff/78ace5972fe501993e480e6ba6f3c385/raw/064a2cbc96119c4217e2892ab39bf625cdfeb89e/app.red
D:\code\test_grow_red> .\stat_ui.exe
start
start
start
start
start
start
start
start
start

*** Runtime Error 1: access violation

if no compile no error
hiiamboris
17:26in what order we should click these? at random?
bubnenkoff
17:28Random
hiiamboris
17:29crashes indeed, some View heisenbugs probably
17:31@bubnenkoff can you eliminate View and see if it still crashes?
17:32well, probably won't work, since even if compiled with -r -d it doesn't crash already
17:35but worth trying! because it will be hard to find the bug like this
17:43-c mode broken?
17:43crap
18:04nevermind @bubnenkoff I minified it to
Red [needs: 'view]

view [
	ppp: panel 300x400 []
	return button "kill me" [loop 100 [ppp/pane: layout/only [button "abc"]]]
]
greggirwin
20:37So is -c mode broken @hiiamboris ?
hiiamboris
20:48nah, it was just an eternal issue https://github.com/red/red/issues/4249
greggirwin
21:54Whew!

bubnenkoff
06:37@hiiamboris sorry, I was go away from PC

bubnenkoff
11:45Am I right that currently impossible to change default button color?
view  [ button [ face/color: red] ]

hiiamboris
12:08Text color changes, background is not supported by the OS
bubnenkoff
12:16
view  [ button "aaa" [ face/color: red] ]

I do not see any changes on text color...
hiiamboris
12:17because you're not changing text color
12:18try view [button pink green "abc"]
bubnenkoff
12:20why view [button pink green "abc"] but not simply: view [button green "abc"]?
hiiamboris
12:21first color goes to background in VID
12:22but in button's case remains unused

cosacam1
04:14hi there. How to use get-scroller? Thanks
hiiamboris
09:51There's a search function on the panel on the left
bubnenkoff
15:58I need way to make color accent to button could anybody give any suggestion? I tried to use base before button, but I do not like how it's look like
15:59[![изображение.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/wAbg/thumb/izobrazhenie.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/wAbg/izobrazhenie.png)
hiiamboris
16:11use base in place of a button?
16:14or draw a frame around it?
16:14or on top of it?
16:19view [button 80x25 "OK" at 10x10 box 82x24 draw [pen magenta line-width 3 box 3x1 79x23]]
bubnenkoff
17:46But I am generation button dynamically, and I do not know it's size because they can different text, so I can't set box size and at.
hiiamboris
17:48Everything VID does can be done in View
bubnenkoff
17:50but how to draw box if I do not know it's size because I do not know length of text on button?
17:51By generation I mean:
append ppp/pane layout/only compose/deep [ 
    at (section-pos - 10x0) base 10x25 with [ color: (data-or-stat/(section-name)/(subsection-name)/color) ]  at section-pos button (rejoin [to-string subsection-name ": " data-or-stat/(section-name)/(subsection-name)/filled-count] ) 
]

17:52to draw box around it like on your example I need to know it's size
hiiamboris
17:55you can read button's size after it was shown

bubnenkoff
09:48I found mention in help-in-red.pdf:
group-box
From documentation: A group-box is a container for other faces, with a visible frame
around it. This is a temporary style which will be removed once Red has the support
for edge facet.

Is there any updates on edge face support?
hiiamboris
10:00nope
bubnenkoff
10:05Am i right understand that group-box and just a panel with text label?
hiiamboris
10:21it's an OS widget
10:22basically, Red just gives a flag to the OS that it should have a label
10:27in fact group-box is a button under the hood in Windows
bubnenkoff
10:49Only button? WoW!
What is the right way to calculate child face size? I want to make tab-panel take all available size. Setting same size is not good because child should be less then parent:
view [
  size 1200x620
  tab-panel 1200x620 [ ; I can set it less but I do not want to hardcode sizes of all elements
    "Tab1" []
    "General2" []
  ]

]
hiiamboris
10:56default margin and spacing is 10x10
bubnenkoff
10:58But is there any way to not hardcode elements size? And make UI size easier to modifying?
hiiamboris
10:58use reactivity
bubnenkoff
10:59You mean to calculate size reactivity?
hiiamboris
10:59yeah
bubnenkoff
11:09I did it:
view/flags  [

    panel green with  [ react/later [ width: (first parent/size * 90%) height: (second parent/size * 90%) size: as-pair width height  ] ]  [
        panel red []
    ]
] [resize]

green is stretchable. Could this code be improved?
11:10Maybe react is better to put in outside function?
hiiamboris
11:17react is supported by VID natively
11:19also words width and height will leak, so you should better use as-pair without the intermediate words, or put them into a function wrapper
bubnenkoff
11:26I can't remember how to use external variables in VID:
tab-panel-size: 1000x500

view/flags [
  size 1200x620
  on-resizing [print "ddd"]
  tab-panel do (tab-panel-size) [ ; here
    "Tab1" []
    "General2" []
  ]

]  [resize]
11:27or only way is with?
hiiamboris
11:27compose too
bubnenkoff
11:29
tab-panel-size: 1000x500

view/flags [
  size 1200x620
  on-resizing [print "ddd"]
  tab-panel compose (tab-panel-size) [ ; invalid syntax at: [compose (tab-panel-size) ["Tab1" [] "General2" []]]
    "Tab1" []
    "General2" []
  ]

]  [resize]
hiiamboris
11:30compose is not a VID invention, it's a function
bubnenkoff
11:33Than I do not understand how to use it in VID
hiiamboris
11:35use it outside VID
bubnenkoff
11:53What I am missing? Why red panel size do not changing?
base-window-size: 1200x620

tab-panel-size: function [] [
    return base-window-size - 10
]

view/flags [
  size base-window-size
  on-resizing [ base-window-size: face/size  ]
  tab-panel red  with  [ react/later [size: tab-panel-size]] [
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]
hiiamboris
11:55react needs a _reactive source_
11:55https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/reactivity.adoc
bubnenkoff
12:05is creates a reactive formula whose result will be assigned to a word.
So I could do:
base-window-size: 1200x620

tab-panel-size: reactor [
     is [base-window-size - 10]
]

?
12:06And should base-window-size be also reactive?
hiiamboris
12:09reactive source is needed to *trigger* a reaction; what you do inside doesn't matter
12:09also is is an operator
bubnenkoff
12:12
base-window-size: 1200x620
tab-panel-size: reactor [
    print "d"
     is [base-window-size - 10]
]

view/flags [
  size base-window-size
  on-resizing [ 
        base-window-size: face/size  
        tab-panel-size ; I need to trigger tab-panel-size: reactor here?
        ]
  tab-panel red  with  [ react/later [size: tab-panel-size]] [
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]


Can't understand how to trigger reactor
hiiamboris
12:14it's like I said:
> react needs a _reactive source_

bubnenkoff
12:15
tab-panel-size: reactor [ ; is it reactive source?
     is [base-window-size - 10]
]
hiiamboris
12:18I gave you a documentation link
12:18please read what is a reactive source
12:18it's written black on white there
bubnenkoff
12:48I reread it many times, I can only assume that base-window-size should be also reactive
hiiamboris
12:50have you found what is a reactive source?
12:50paste here
12:51let's read it together :)
bubnenkoff
12:53hah) I have only one idea that reactive source should be base-window-size but not it is not
hiiamboris
12:55don't worry, paste the definition from the docs and we'll see
bubnenkoff
12:55"A path! value referring to a field in a reactive object."
12:57hm... object ... set word is not an object!
hiiamboris
12:58"A **path!** value" - do you see this?
bubnenkoff
12:58yes...
hiiamboris
12:58do you have a path value in your react block?
bubnenkoff
12:59no, so it should be an object and I should to link to path inside it?
hiiamboris
13:01no idea what does it mean "link to path"
13:01you understand what a path is?
13:01give me an example
bubnenkoff
13:01one moment
13:05
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1200x620  ]
base-window-object/size
hiiamboris
13:07yes good, that is a path to a field in a reactive object
13:07by the way, every face is also a reactive object
13:08now all you need is to give such path to react so it can watch it's changes
13:09react only scans the literal block you give it
bubnenkoff
13:10
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1200x620  ]

tab-panel-size: reactor [
  size:  is [base-window-object/size - 10] ; what is correct syntax here? should I add set word or it can be returned?
]

view/flags [
  size base-window-size
  on-resizing [ 
        base-window-object: face/size  
        ]
  tab-panel red  with  [ react/later [size: tab-panel-size/size]] [
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]

hiiamboris
13:13this should work I think
bubnenkoff
13:14Do not:
*** Script Error: VID - invalid syntax at: [base-window-size on-resizing [base-window-object: face/size]]
hiiamboris
13:14but that's because you're not using compose
13:14reactive part should be fine
bubnenkoff
13:16
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1200x620  ]

tab-panel-size: reactor [
  size: base-window-object/size - 10
]

view/flags [
  size base-window-size
  on-resizing [ 
        base-window-object: face/size  
        ]
  tab-panel red  with  [ react/later [size: compose (tab-panel-size/size)]] [ ; compose here? I am getting an error
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]

13:17and it seems that error in:
Script Error: VID - invalid syntax at: [base-window-size on-resizing [base-window-object: face/size]]
13:17oh moment
13:18I am seeing an error
13:18
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1200x620  ]

tab-panel-size: reactor [
  size: base-window-object/size - 10
]


view/flags [
  size base-window-size/size
  on-resizing [ 
        base-window-object/size: face/size  
        ]
  tab-panel red  with  [ react/later [size: tab-panel-size/size]] [
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]

Again an error
hiiamboris
13:20have you tried reading the error message? ;)
13:22if so, you should consult VID's size command syntax
13:22https://github.com/red/docs/blob/master/en/vid.adoc
13:23you can paste it here too
bubnenkoff
13:25size value
But my code:
size base-window-size/size

hiiamboris
13:25and the next line in the docs?
bubnenkoff
13:26"<value> : width and height in pixels (pair!)."
hiiamboris
13:26see the **pair!** there?
13:26do you give it a pair?
bubnenkoff
13:27yes, but react should return 1200x620 in my code
hiiamboris
13:27to hell with react
13:27base-window-size is not a pair
bubnenkoff
13:29
size do [compose (base-window-size/size)]


hiiamboris
13:29do is not a pair either
13:29what type is it?
bubnenkoff
13:30here? Here should be a word
hiiamboris
13:30great, we're getting somewhere
13:30so size expects a pair, but you keep giving it a word
bubnenkoff
13:32But I can't use compose here:
size compose (base-window-size/size)
hiiamboris
13:32can you use compose outside of VID?
bubnenkoff
13:34Only like this:
foo: does [compose (base-window-size/size)]
view/flags [
  size foo
hiiamboris
13:38but foo is a word
bubnenkoff
13:40hah))
13:43I am somewhere near!
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1200x620  ]

tab-panel-size: reactor [
  size: base-window-object/size - 10
]

view/flags compose [
  size (base-window-size/size)
  on-resizing [ 
        base-window-object/size: face/size 
        ]
  tab-panel red  with  [ react/later [size: tab-panel-size/size]] [
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]
13:44btw syntax is still invalid
hiiamboris
13:49:+1:
bubnenkoff
14:38
view/flags compose [
  size (base-window-size/size)
  on-resizing [ 
        base-window-object/size: face/size 
        ]
  tab-panel red  with  [ size: tab-panel-size/size] [
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]

error: *** Script Error: VID - invalid syntax at: [none on-resizing [base-window-object/size: face/size]]
hiiamboris
14:39figure out your typos
bubnenkoff
14:42Oh indeed! Working example:
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1200x620  ]

tab-panel-size: reactor [
  size: base-window-object/size - 10
]

view/flags compose [
  size (base-window-object/size)
  on-resizing [ 
        base-window-object/size: face/size 
        ]
  tab-panel red  with  [ size: tab-panel-size/size] [
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]
hiiamboris
14:43:clap:
bubnenkoff
14:44one moment I need to check if it work as expected, because now working example is running example)
14:48Not sure that it's work as expected:
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1100x620  ]

tab-panel-size: reactor [
  size: base-window-object/size - 20%
]

view/flags compose [
  size (base-window-object/size)
  on-resizing [ 
        base-window-object/size: face/size 
        ]
  tab-panel red  with  [ react/later [size: (tab-panel-size/size)]] [
;   tab-panel red  with  [ size: tab-panel-size/size] [
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]

if I understood you right all faces is reactive by default, so commented and uncommented lines should work same?
14:49But I do not seeing changing of red panel size on windows resize
hiiamboris
14:51all faces are reactive, but that doesn't change the meaning of with
14:51(which is only evaluated once)
bubnenkoff
14:52hah) So is it still possible to get my code work?
hiiamboris
14:55use probe to see what values get updated
14:55you'll find where you broke it
bubnenkoff
15:00
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1100x620  ]

tab-panel-size: reactor [
  size: base-window-object/size - 50
]

view/flags compose [
  size (base-window-object/size)
  on-resizing [ 
        base-window-object/size: face/size 
        t/size: tab-panel-size/size
        probe  t/size ; but i size is not changing
        ]
  t: tab-panel red (tab-panel-size/size)  [
    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]
hiiamboris
15:03indeed, what do you think will change it?
15:03you have zero reactive relations defined
bubnenkoff
15:08I have only idea that on-resizing should be somehow maked as reactive...
15:09because:
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1100x620  ]

tab-panel-size: reactor [
  size: base-window-object/size - 50
]

should be reactable
hiiamboris
15:09you know how to define a *reactive relation*?
bubnenkoff
15:11If i understand examples right it should be:
on-resizing react [ 
        base-window-object/size: face/size 
        probe  t/size
        t/size: tab-panel-size/size
        ]

But usually understand it wrong
hiiamboris
15:12indeed, does on-resizing accept word for it's argument?
bubnenkoff
hiiamboris
15:12but that's what you're giving it
bubnenkoff
15:18Now I have no ideas...
hiiamboris
15:19give it a block come on
15:19you wrote correct relations an hour ago or so ;)
bubnenkoff
15:26> I did it:
> 
> view/flags  [
> 
>     panel green with  [ react/later [ width: (first parent/size * 90%) height: (second parent/size * 90%) size: as-pair width height  ] ]  [
>         panel red []
>     ]
> ] [resize]
>

> green is stretchable. Could this code be improved?

You are talking about this example?
hiiamboris
15:28yeah this one too
15:29and https://gitter.im/red/help?at=636cf8562cb65702401f067b
bubnenkoff
15:35Even having examples I do not understand what I can took from them...
15:36I have only stupid ideas like:
with react/later [ 
        base-window-object/size:  face/size 
        probe  t/size
        t/size:  tab-panel-size/size
        ]
hiiamboris
15:44in that case sleep on it ;)
15:46you are clearly tired today
bubnenkoff
16:08You are right. Just say me if I am on right way?
view/flags compose [
  size (base-window-object/size)

  on-resizing [ ; passing to resize react block
    react/later [
        base-window-object/size:  face/size 
        probe  t/size
        t/size:  tab-panel-size/size
        ]

    ]

  t: tab-panel red (tab-panel-size/size)  [

    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]
hiiamboris
16:10you are
bubnenkoff
16:13But face/size is not available there…
hiiamboris
16:15indeed
16:15maybe use VID's react instead of on-resizing?
16:16or you'll have to make a *dynamic* relation (documented)
bubnenkoff
16:20is it possible to use react? I am getting syntax error:
view/flags compose [
  size (base-window-object/size)
    react/later [
        base-window-object/size:  face/size 
        probe  t/size
        t/size:  tab-panel-size/size
        ]
  t: tab-panel red (tab-panel-size/size)  [

    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]
hiiamboris
16:26because you're not following the VID docs
16:26there's no react/later syntax in VID
16:26and it has to follow a face
16:27doing random things again :)
16:27good luck with that
bubnenkoff
16:47> and it has to follow a face

Please explain this
hiiamboris
16:49actually, I'm mistaken, you can use react globally in VID
16:49> This keyword can be used both as a face option or as a global keyword. Arbitrary number of react instances can be used.
16:49then you just have to follow the documentation ;)
bubnenkoff
17:57is seems that I should not call face from react, I should link by name. But on follow code react is do not do nothing (I checked with prints in it):
base-window-object: reactor [ size: 1100x620  ]

tab-panel-size: reactor [
  size: is base-window-object/size - 50
]

view/flags compose win: [
  size (base-window-object/size)

    react later  [
        print "hello"
        base-window-object/size:  win/size ; I should not use face here
        ; probe  t/size
        t/size:  tab-panel-size/size
        ]

  t: tab-panel red (tab-panel-size/size)  [

    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]
hiiamboris
18:31what reactive sources do you see in your react block? how many?

bubnenkoff
05:16> what reactive sources do you see in your react block? how many?

It seems that only one: tab-panel-size/size
win/size is not react
hiiamboris
08:54yes, and why?
bubnenkoff
08:59I am continue fighting. I got it work and more or less understand how it works:
base-window-objects: reactor [ 
    size: 1100x620  
    panel-size: is [size - 50]
    ]

view/flags  compose [
  size (base-window-objects/size)
    on-resizing [
        base-window-objects/size:  face/size
        t/size: base-window-objects/panel-size
        ]

  t: tab-panel red (base-window-objects/panel-size)  [

    "Tab1" []
    "Tab2" []
  ]

]  [resize]

Question: is there any way to change panel size without linking to t?
hiiamboris
09:02of course, dynamic relations are documented at the link I gave you
bubnenkoff
10:39
>> 100 - 20%
== 99.8

why 99.8?!
10:40
>> to-percent 100 - 20%
== 9980%
>> to-percent (100 - 20%)
== 9980%

hiiamboris
10:44> Percent is from the Latin adverbial phrase per centum meaning “by the hundred.”
10:441 per cent means literally 1 / 100
10:44100 percent = 1
10:45
>> to percent! 1
== 100%
10:46% sign visually denotes the denominator and the number of zeroes (2)
bubnenkoff
10:51But how to get 80 as result ? %)
hiiamboris
11:03
>> 100% - 20%
== 80%
11:03use multiplication, Luke
11:05
>> %: 1 / 100
== 0.01
>> 100% - (20 * %)
== 80%
bubnenkoff
12:58> 
> >> %: 1 / 100
> == 0.01
> >> 100% - (20 * %)
> == 80%
>


thanks!
luce80
19:04Just a thought. I feel a lot like @bubnenkoff when using reactions. I hope he will succeeds in his fight with them and will post the final result, hoping it will clarify that situation even for me.

dsunanda
13:27Is there a way to set the user-agent string before doing a read http://.... ?
hiiamboris
13:35no, it's hardcoded in the source unlike other headers:
https://github.com/red/red/blob/134698f686c200e24d420f28866c8aa03a8557c0/runtime/simple-io.reds#L1644
13:36@rebolek may know if it's possible in the IO branch though
dsunanda
13:42Thanks. Not a big problem.
pekr
18:35IO branch was supposed to undergo some architectural changes, IIRC, so I would not bet on its API.

cosacam1
20:39About dmitry - hiiamboris chatting on reactors: I like hiamboris' style - He's teaching us how to fish rather than feeding us with fishes. We thank you.
hiiamboris
21:34I appreciate you see the point @cosacam1 ☻
21:34Indeed most useful learning skill is not to have the dots but to master how to connect them.

cosacam1
06:05Several days ago I asked about get-scroller. I was suggested to search and I found a Toomas/hiiamboris example. However it doesn't work. It just shows a grey base with nothing in it.

Well, I made some changes, as follows:
- replaced base by panel and named it bg (background panel)
- removed the with section and located scrollable in same line of bg panel declaration
- also removed the pane: layout/only section as fg panel goes automatically in that pane
- renamed p panel to fg (forground panel)
- removed its default size so it gets high enough as to contain any widget in it no matter its size, as usually we do in VID
- changed areas sizes (actually I used a style) so each area doesn't fill the whole panel
- added more areas
- replaced size constants by their respective refinements in bg and fg
- added a diff variable to hold the height difference of both panels

I realized that event/key has right,left,page-right,page-left values instead of down,up,page-down,page-up as stated in the example.
(I guess an horizontal scroll-bar should use left,right,etc. values and a vertical one should use up,down,etc.)
So I finished up with the following script:
06:06
view [
    size 390x220
    across space 0x0
    bg: panel 367x200 scrollable [
        origin 0x0 space 0x0
        bg: panel [
	    style area: area 350x75
            origin 0x0 space 0x0
            below
            area "A" area "B" area "C" area "D"
            area "A1" area "B1" area "C1" area "D1"
            area "A2" area "B2" area "C2" area "D2"
            area "A3" area "B3" area "C3" area "D3"
        ]
    ]
    on-created [
        put get-scroller face 'horizontal 'visible? no
        sc: get-scroller face 'vertical
        sc/position: 0
        sc/page-size: bg/size/y
        sc/max-size: fg/size/y
	diff: fg/size/y - bg/size/y
    ]
    on-scroll [
if event/key = 'track [probe reduce ["before " event/picked sc/position]]        
        sc/position: max 0 min diff switch event/key [
            right [sc/position + 20] 
            left [sc/position - 20] 
            page-right [sc/position + sc/page-size] 
            page-left [sc/position - sc/page-size]
            track [event/picked - 1]
            end [sc/position]
        ]
if event/key = 'track [probe reduce ["after " event/picked sc/position]]        
        p/offset: as-pair 0 negate sc/position
    ] 
]
06:06Everything works fine except when I drag the thumb: the block associated to the track key is not working fine.
The thumb always returns to top position and the panel doesn't scroll at all.
As you see, I did probe event/picked and sc/position, before and after the switch. They are 0 all the time. Why?
BTW my Red build date is 9-Jun-2022/20:34:35 running on Windows 10. Maybe that matters.
Thanks.
ldci
07:11@cosacam1 Tested with Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 7-Nov-2022/9:01:41+01:00 commit #134698f. But replace second bg name by fg and use fg/offset. Works fine:)
cosacam1
07:38Thanks @ldci The typos you found are due to... typing the message here in Gitter but they are correctly typed in my IDE. I'll download Red's last version
ldci
08:08Based on a code I found (I don’t know the author) you can also try
Red [
]
view [
    across 
    panel 350x100 [
        origin 0x0 
        pan: panel [
            style area: area 350x75
            origin 0x0 space 0x0 below 
			area "1" area "2" area "3" area "4" area "5" area "6" area "7"]
    ]
    scroller 16x100 on-created [
        face/selected: 100% * face/size/y / pan/size/y 
        diff: face/size/y - pan/size/y
    ] [pan/offset/y: max diff min 0 to integer! pan/size/y * -1 * face/data]
]

toomasv
09:19@cosacam1

> I realized that event/key has right,left,page-right,page-left values instead of down,up,page-down,page-up

It seems vertical scrolling words are restored in later builds. At least I have these in Nov 7 Win build.
09:22@ldci Was it working fine for you? I had to replace event/keys to vertical words with same build.
ldci
09:24@toomasv Response too fast

cosacam1
16:06This example is based upon a Toomas / hiiamboris code that uses get-scroller.
The original had neither on-wheel nor on-drag event handlers.
Drag works fine when the difference between panels' height is less than 700, else it gets stuck before reaching the bottom.
I guess it's a Red bug, correct me please if I'm wrong. Thanks.
BTW It happens the same when using a supllied scroller face (not those returned by get-scroller) in the many examples given in the forum (even one of my own)
16:06
Red [needs 'view]

view [
    size 390x450
    across space 0x0
    bg: panel 367x400 scrollable [
        origin 0x0 space 0x0
        fg: panel blue loose  [ ; use blue margin for dragging
            style a: area 300x50
            origin 0x0 space 0x0
            below
            a "A0" a "B0" a "C0" a "D0" 
            a "A1" a "B1" a "C1" a "D1" 
            a "A2" a "B2" a "C2" a "D2" 
            a "A3"  a "B3"  a "C3"  a "D3" 
            a "A4" a "B4" a "C4" a "D4" 
            a "A5" a "B5" ; a "C5" a "D5" uncomment these and you'll get stuck when dragging
            ; a "A6" a "B6" a "C6" a "D6" 
            ; a "A7" a "B7" a "C7" a "D7" 
            ; a "A8" a "B8" a "C8" a "D8" 
            ; a "A9" a "B9" a "C9" a "D9" 
        ] with [size/x: size/x + 40] ; 40 :: show blue margin
        on-wheel [
            sc/position: max 0 min diff sc/position + either positive? event/picked [negate sc/min-size][sc/min-size]
            fg/offset/y: negate sc/position
        ]
        on-drag-start [system/view/auto-sync?: no]
        on-drag [
            unless system/view/auto-sync? [
                fg/offset: as-pair 0 (min max negate diff fg/offset/y 0)
                sc/position: negate fg/offset/y
            ]
        ]
        on-drop [system/view/auto-sync?: yes]
    ]
    on-created [
        sc: get-scroller face 'vertical
        put get-scroller face 'horizontal 'visible? no
        td/text: to-string diff: fg/size/y - bg/size/y     
        either diff > 0 [
            put sc 'visible? yes
            sc/position: 0
            sc/page-size: bg/size/y
            sc/min-size: bg/size/y / 10
            sc/max-size: fg/size/y
        ][put sc 'visible? no]
    ]
    on-scroll [
        sc/position: max 0 min diff switch event/key [
            down        [sc/position + sc/min-size]
            up          [sc/position - sc/min-size]
            page-down   [sc/position + sc/page-size]
            page-up     [sc/position - sc/page-size]
            track       [event/picked - 1]
            end         [sc/position]
        ]
        fg/offset: as-pair 0 negate sc/position
    ]
    return text "Panel's height difference " td: text
]
hiiamboris
16:16ah, if only copy pasting from this stupid chat was so easy
16:20![](https://i.gyazo.com/74319a1d34b8e2c62183a232f36f4521.gif)
16:21what must I do to make it stuck?
cosacam1
16:22drag on the blue, not on the scroll bar
hiiamboris
16:23I see
16:24well I suppose loose has some limits?
16:25I suggest using on-down/on-up/on-over events instead for this
cosacam1
16:31ok, thanks. Any other suggestion, guys?

bubnenkoff
12:33what is the good way to check first word letter if it any symbol from list?
data-key: '!foo

if ( find any [#"!" #"-"] (first to-string data-key)  )  [print "modificator detected"]

error: find does not allow char! for its series argument
hiiamboris
12:37your way is fine, just don't misuse find
bubnenkoff
12:40thanks! It seems that this way is work too
data-key: '+foo

if ( find  [! - +] (to-word first to-string data-key)  )  [print "modificator detected"]
14:10hm... is it possible to change spelling of set words here?
data: [
    -key: "some text"
]
if ( find  [! - +] (to-word first to-string key)  )  [
    data/:key: to-word (remove at to-string key 1)
]

probe data


to get: 
data: [
    key: "some text"
]
hiiamboris
14:46you'll figure this out yourself
bubnenkoff
14:50right direction?
data: [
    foo: "some text"
]

change data foo 'bar

?
14:54yes, right:
data: [
    foo: "some text"
]

replace data 'foo (to-set-word 'bar)

probe data

out:
[bar: "some text"]
hiiamboris
14:57:+1:
14:57split big problem into smaller ones and solve these
14:58exactly

bubnenkoff
09:05@hiiamboris and what about map? Is it possible to change key name in map?
09:08replace and change do not work with map
09:10it seems the only way is remove old and create new one key
hiiamboris
09:46> it seems the only way is remove old and create new one key

yes

bubnenkoff
13:25I need to display pressed button (or any other kind of visual accent). I tried property selected but it's do not work:
view [b: button  button [b/selected: true] ]
hiiamboris
13:31well that would be some weird UX
bubnenkoff
13:33hm... is there any pressed flag for button?
hiiamboris
13:42perhaps you should use checkbox instead of a button
pekr
13:43Well, in old VID it was a toggleIIRC, but it was a custome gfx. Not sure it exists in RED VID, as the widgets are native, so I doubt it ...
bubnenkoff
13:45Is there any way to detect witch radio button is actived without adding labels and complex logic of iteration?
view [
    radio
    radio
    radio
]
hiiamboris
13:46on-change should work
toomasv
14:59
view [style pet: radio on-change [print [face/extra pick ["is born" "is killed"] face/data]] pet extra "Tom" pet extra "Jerry"]

bubnenkoff
09:15Why control is not marked as selected after window creation:
view [r: radio with [selected: true]]
hiiamboris
10:12study the source of set-focus
11:01sorry I was AFK mostly
11:01seems like that doesn't work either, only focus keyword in VID
bubnenkoff
11:03maybe it's an issue? Because it's expected to work as in my code
hiiamboris
11:04seems like data facet controls it
11:04which sort of makes sense
11:05OTOH it also makes sense to only have one selected radio button per panel, or per some explicit radio group, and for that parent/selected makes sense.. except it conflicts with the focus model
11:07indeed there's a hack that handles per-panel selection (in View code):
;-- Radio faces handler --
insert-event-func [
    if all [
        event/type = 'click
        event/face/type = 'radio
    ][
        foreach f event/face/parent/pane [
            if all [f/type = 'radio f/data][f/data: off show f]
        ]
        event/face/data: on
        show event/face
        event/type: 'change
    ]
    event
]
11:09so I should guess that it was designed so user clicks select one radio per panel, but if you're doing it all programmatically then you're on your own
greggirwin
19:06I want to say there was a facet to control radio grouping in R2, but that may have been something @rgchris did in his style.

Rebol2Red
10:59Can someone explain the differences (the big picture, not the details) between the three versions of Red (Gui, Console and Toolchain version). Is there a version or a hack by which I can redirect the output of Red to a file?
Like red.exe test.red > c:\output.txt
hiiamboris
11:24Have you seen the main page? https://www.red-lang.org/
11:28Redirection works fine from CLI console.
dockimbel
11:30It's also briefly explained at the top of the Download page...
Rebol2Red
12:15@hiiamboris Thanks
ldci
12:16@Rebol2Red
Red CLI : Red interpreter and CLI console. Without graphical interface.
Red GUI : Red interpreter and View DSL including GUI console. All you need for graphical apps.
Red Toolchain : Encapper for Red and Red/System compiler. If you want to compile and distribute your code.
Rebol2Red
12:21You need a toggle button with an image
toggle: func ['word][set word not get word]

im1: make image! 100x100 ; im1: load %image1.jpg <- change to one of your own pictures
draw im1 [box 0x0 100x100 circle 50x50 45] 

im2: make image! 100x100 ; im2: load %image2.jpg <- ; change to one of your own pictures
draw im2 [box 10x10 90x90]

sw: true ; a switch must be true at startup
view [
	title {RvS - Togglebutton @2022}
	size 500x500
	at 200x200
	b: button 100x100 "click me" im1 [ ; <- adjust buttonsize to biggest pictures size
		toggle sw
		case [
			sw = true [b/image: im1]
			sw = false [b/image: im2]
		]
	]
]

Too bad you can't have this resizing with the button image
im1: make image! 100x100 draw im1 [box 0x0 100x100 circle 50x50 45] 
im2: make image! 100x100 draw im2 [box 10x10 90x90]
view [
	image 50x50 im1
	image 50x50 im2
]

So you must resize your pictures outside of Red with Irfanview or the like
12:37You can have as many switches as you want
toggle: func ['word][set word not get word]

sw1: true
sw2: false
loop 5 [
	toggle sw1
	print sw1
	toggle sw2
	print sw2
]

In regard to my comment "; a switch must be true at startup" this is needed over there otherwise the picture only changes after the second click on it.
13:01Using togglebutton with your own pictures:
toggle: func ['word][set word not get word]

im1: load %image1.jpg ;<- change to one of your own pictures
im2: load %image2.jpg ;<- change to one of your own pictures

view [
	title {RvS - Togglebutton @2022}
	size 500x500
	at 200x200
	b: button 100x100 im2 [ ; <- adjust buttonsize to biggest picture size or adjust pictures to buttonsize
		toggle sw
		case [
			sw = false [b/image: im1]
			sw = true [b/image: im2]
		]
	]
	do [
		sw: true ; in this case the switch must be true at startup
	]
]
13:21@ldci Thank you, it is all clear now. (I accidently deleted this post)
rgchris
14:52> I want to say there was a facet to control radio grouping in R2, but that may have been something @rgchris did in his style.

@greggirwin No, I believe that was standard. The OF keyword was used for grouping, see this answer here: https://stackoverflow.com/a/6403025/292969
greggirwin
18:38Thanks @rgchris. :+1:
cosacam1
19:39Hi again . Take a look at this
19:40
>> c: blue
== 0.0.255
>> find [red green blue] c
== none
>> c: "John"
== "John"
>> find ["Jane" "John" "Joe"] c
== ["John" "Joe"]
>>
19:41why does it find the string in the list but not the tuple?
dockimbel
19:52
lisp
>> foreach item [red green blue] [probe type? item]
word!
word!
word!
>> foreach item reduce [red green blue] [probe type? item]
tuple!
tuple!
tuple!
cosacam1
20:08I see. Thanks. BTW did you see my drag problem above?
20:10@luce80 About my drag problem. Thanks for your reply but make the following changes to it and you'll get stuck when dragging the blue.
20:13
p: panel loose blue [
            origin 0x0 space 0x0 below
            style area: area 250x100
            area "A"
            area "B"
            area "C"
            area "D"
            area "A"
            area "B" ; ... insert a lot of areas A thru C
        ] with [size/x: 300 ]
hiiamboris
20:15I already told you how to properly implement dragging.
20:17Otherwise, reduce it to a **minimal** example that shows it's a bug in Red, so we can fix it.
cosacam1
20:19yes, I know, using mouse events, thanks but I'm just curious about this. Besides, I'm working in two projects at the same time. I haven't had time. Thanks again.
20:38I'm sorry, maybe I bother you guys but I only have internet access once and a while so... Here is the example. No scroller, only dragging.
20:40
Red [needs 'view]

view [
    bg: panel 300x300 [
        origin 0x0 space 0x0
        fg: panel blue loose [ ; just drag on the blue
            style a: area 100x50
            origin 0x0 space 0x0
            below
            a "A" a "B" a "C" a "D"
            a "A1" a "B1" a "C1" a "D1"
            a "A2" a "B2" a "C2" a "D2"
            a "A3" a "B3" a "C3" a "D3"
            a "A4" a "B4" a "C4" a "D4"
            a "A5" a "B5" a "C5" a "D5" ; get stuck when reaching here
            a "A6" a "B6" a "C6" a "D6"
            a "A7" a "B7" a "C7" a "D7"
            a "A8" a "B8" a "C8" a "D8"
            a "A9" a "B9" a "C9" a "D9"
        ] with [size/x: 200]
        on-drag-start [system/view/auto-sync?: no]
        on-drag [fg/offset/x: 0]
        on-drop [system/view/auto-sync?: yes]        
    ]
]
hiiamboris
20:46well, so far it still looks like a bug in your code - draggable face just gets hidden
cosacam1
20:51The draggable face is the blue panel which contains the areas or whatever other faces we can put in it. I never hide anything. Can you drag it until you see "D9" area? And back again until "A" area. I can't. My Red version is dated to 12-Nov-2022/17:58:23. My system is Win 10.
hiiamboris
20:53this shows the bug:
view [
    size 300x300
    at 0x-1000 base 300x2100 "DRAG ME" cyan loose
    on-drag [?? event/offset]
]
20:54would you like to fill an [issue report](https://github.com/red/red/issues/new?template=bug_report.md) ?
cosacam1
20:59well, for the sake of a better Red... yes
21:04may I use your example for the issue? it's shorter than mine. Or you may report it if you want
hiiamboris
21:11indeed, use my example :)
21:11if your internet drops again, I'll file a report tomorrow myself
cosacam1
21:37Thanks. Done.
hiiamboris
21:44:+1:
cosacam1
21:47And actually my internet doesn't drops, only that we have a lot of blackouts in my country, my phone (which I use as modem) is broken and I deppend upon a neighbour wifi... well, at least I have a laptop, a brain and a good Red community, thanks God.
loziniak
21:50
>> f: function [code [block!]] [res: do code either unset? res [none] [res]]
== func [code [block!] /local res][res: do code either unset? res [none] [res]]
>> f [123]
== 123
>> f [none]
== none
>> f [()]
*** Script Error: res: needs a value
*** Where: res
*** Near : ()
*** Stack: f


is there a possibility to make last call return none without repeating do code?
21:53i.e. without doing like this:
>> f: function [code [block!]] [either unset? do code [none] [do code]]
== func [code [block!]][either unset? do code [none] [do code]]
>> f [()]
== none
21:57My usecase is [my unit test library](https://github.com/exercism/red/blob/main/_templates/practice-exercise/testlib.red) - lines 31 and 52 (result: do code).
cosacam1
21:59How about this?
21:59
>> f: function [code [block!]] [either empty? code [none][do code]]
>> f [123]
== 123
>> f [none]
== none
>> f [()]
>> f compose [()]
== none
>> f []
== none
>>
loziniak
22:04hmm your example indeed solves [()] case, but it should return none for every *code* that returns unset!, like ["blabla" ()] as well:
>> f: function [code [block!]] [either empty? code [none][do code]]
== func [code [block!]][either empty? code [none] [do code]]
>> f ["blabla" ()]
>> type? f ["blabla" ()]
== unset!
hiiamboris
22:09@loziniak set/any
loziniak
22:12
>> b: 5
== 5
>> f: function [] [b: 13 set/any 'b () probe b]
== func [/local b][b: 13 set/any 'b () probe b]
>> f
*** Script Error: b has no value
*** Where: probe
*** Near : b
*** Stack: f probe  

>> b
== 5
22:12I need it to set local word in function
hiiamboris
22:13@loziniak get/any ☻
loziniak
hiiamboris
22:14(although Red has also this handy :b notation - just don't tell anyone)
cosacam1
22:14However
22:14
>> unset? ["ccc" ()]
== false
Oldes
22:15Of course, because it is a block. Or maybe you want to evaluate the block?
>> unset? do ["ccc" ()]
== true
cosacam1
22:18You guys, with that tricky programming... I still need to learn a lot :)
loziniak
22:19we all learn all the time!
cosacam1
22:19yeap
22:22well, I must leave you guys. In a few minutes they'll cut the electricity. It's been a pleasure, as always.
hiiamboris
22:23move to a colder country, cutting electricity there so often is not an option ;)
loziniak
22:25there's something special in Red community that it attracts people from former or even current communist countries :-D
22:25sleep well @cosacam1
cosacam1
22:26@hiiamboris not so easy man... never mind. @loziniak maybe the name? Red hahaha
loziniak
22:27hahaha you bet!
22:32anyway, problem solved. thank you guys very much!

bubnenkoff
09:33I need to pass path to map to function and than access to it's data. But I am getting none:
template2: #(
       section_aaa: #(
          aa: 111
          bb: 222
          cc: 333
          lots: [

          ]
       )
  
    )

f: function [data [path!]] [
    print type? data
    probe data
    probe data/aa ; here
]

f to-path template2/section_aaa

What I am missing? type is path! probe print right data because it's evaluate path to data. But how to access to /aa field?

I am getting:
none
== none
hiiamboris
09:46read [path docs](https://codeberg.org/hiiamboris/red-docs/src/branch/master/en/datatypes/path.adoc) to understand it
09:46![](https://i.gyazo.com/b39926668f33dae1fd2be32aaef3c6eb.png)
09:47> it's evaluate path to data.

This is where your assumption is wrong
09:47You made a path with a literal map inside.
bubnenkoff
09:58Egh... after re-reading docs still not understand idea... I should extract map from path?
hiiamboris
10:06path accessor data/aa selects on the path data (not the map)
bubnenkoff
10:07yes I already understood this
10:08but how to make map from data?
data: reduce data

I have only this idea, but it do not work
hiiamboris
10:09don't
10:09you should not have put a map inside a path in the first place
10:10(unless you know what you're doing, but you do not)
bubnenkoff
10:10But I think that I understand what I am doing and I need to pass path exactly to map
10:13
template2: #(
       section_aaa: #(
          aa: 111
          bb: 222
          cc: 333
          lots: [
          ]
       )
    )

f: function [data [path!]] [
    print type? data
    ; doing some operations with passed map
]

f to-path template2/section_aaa ; passing path to map

hiiamboris
10:15in your f above change probe data/aa to probe data/1/aa
10:15when you really understand why it works, you will realize you've had no idea what you were doing ;)
bubnenkoff
10:16oh! thanks! that's work!
template2: #(
       section_aaa: #(
          aa: 111
          bb: 222
          cc: 333
          lots: [
          ]
       )
    )

f: function [data [path!]] [
    print type? data
    data: first data ; getting map from path
    probe data/aa
]

f to-path template2/section_aaa
hiiamboris
10:17so why pass a path if you only need a map? ;)
bubnenkoff
10:24you asking right questions) One reason was to make function able to process blocks and maps with same key-value structure... I need to think more about it..
loziniak
17:44Hi! Is there a reason why in Red and Rebol while has condition block and if has condition expression?
hiiamboris
17:45Because while expression would otherwise be evaluated only once before entering while :)

loziniak
10:38makes sense! thanks.
bubnenkoff
14:58Hm... I need to change spelling key in map and save it's position:
x: #(foo: 1 bar: 2 baz: 3)

for example I need to get:
x: #(foo: 1 test: 2 baz: 3) ; bar -> test

But remove\adding key with another spelling change order of elements
hiiamboris
15:00maps have no position
15:00they're unordered
bubnenkoff
15:01Yes, but I need to display data in map in same order... to make it easier to read...
hiiamboris
15:11don't use maps then
15:26well, if your maps are small and you're using them for convenience, not performance, then you can just re-create them
15:28make #() head change find to [] x 'bar 'test

loziniak
11:11Hi! Is this intentional, that the last version available to download on project page is from 17 Aug?
11:12When I click "History", there are newer versions as well.
hiiamboris
11:1217 you say?
11:13![](https://i.gyazo.com/5d54ba4de207b473020679dcb3250a44.png)
loziniak
11:13red-view-17aug22-d99a1018a
hiiamboris
11:15lol, how is this possible?
loziniak
11:15[![image.png](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/MkxY/thumb/image.png)](https://files.gitter.im/5780ef02c2f0db084a2231b0/MkxY/image.png)
hiiamboris
11:16in a fresh browser all ok
loziniak
11:16haha just checked, 26 Nov too here in another browser :-)
hiiamboris
11:17ctrl+shift+r doesn't cure it either
11:19what fixed it is removing offline data stored by static.red-lang.org
11:20@dockimbel
loziniak
11:20
HTTP/2.0 200 OK
X-Firefox-Spdy: h2
content-length: 8216
content-type: text/html
date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 16:02:26 GMT
last-modified: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 14:44:48 GMT
server: Caddy, Cheyenne/0.9.20.dev

Wed, 17 Aud 2022 :-)
11:25it also helps when you remove ?reload=true from URL.
dockimbel
14:28From Chrome, I get:
content-length: 8216
content-type: text/html
date: Sun, 27 Nov 2022 14:26:25 GMT
last-modified: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 16:23:01 GMT
server: Caddy
server: Cheyenne/0.9.20.dev
14:30The Download page relies on a